1. #5041
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Are you trying to bullshit people?
    Do you honestly think 4pc lfr is worth hc off pieces?
    I, personaly, did not say that. I even said that it might not be better. Theck simed it to be better. True or false in practice, I don't know.
    Although you were at the edge of progress with poor gear as you say so your choices back then seems obvious: higher ilvl upgrades and let tiers pieces to dps.
    Now we are already late into the tier so you can eventually take the "risk" to drop HCWF off pieces to lower tier pieces.
    In the end it's personal choice: either a comfort tool (4pc) or passive def stats.
    It's not bad to have different points of view. Up to every one to decide with full picture in mind.
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  2. #5042
    Quote Originally Posted by Moussaka View Post
    I, personaly, did not say that. I even said that it might not be better. Theck simed it to be better. True or false in practice, I don't know.
    Although you were at the edge of progress with poor gear as you say so your choices back then seems obvious: higher ilvl upgrades and let tiers pieces to dps.
    Now we are already late into the tier so you can eventually take the "risk" to drop HCWF off pieces to lower tier pieces.
    In the end it's personal choice: either a comfort tool (4pc) or passive def stats.
    It's not bad to have different points of view. Up to every one to decide with full picture in mind.
    I still opted for the tier pieces that I got to sit in my bags and used some on retribution pieces due to better stats on them. If I would have wanted the 4p I could have gotten it easily from flex or lfr. It is not the old days when only DPS got tiers for the first resets.
    I actually had 4 piece if I wanted to do. But I opted to use normal retribution set legs + HC off-set head over normal protection legs + flex prot helm.

    The 4p did not exactly gain value with higher gear levels, other than of course the dps benefit.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  3. #5043
    So is the general consensus that Thelm stick with the HC off pieces, since the 4PC is really only important for DPS rankings? He really needs to kill H Garrosh this week, and I don't want him making me tank since he's falling over dead all the time. Thanks.
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  4. #5044
    Quote Originally Posted by Fedya View Post
    So is the general consensus that Thelm stick with the HC off pieces, since the 4PC is really only important for DPS rankings? He really needs to kill H Garrosh this week, and I don't want him making me tank since he's falling over dead all the time. Thanks.
    Just because firefly is so vocal about it doesn't mean that it's general consensus that the 4p is bad.
    Personally I'm of the opinion that removing the opportunity cost and higher uptime on ShoR (especially if coupled with DP) are definitely worth more than whatever stats you may gain ... unless the difference in ilvl is very significant.
    Armor/Haste/Stamina just don't mean that much if you're already sitting at a more than comfortable level on all of them.
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  5. #5045
    Quote Originally Posted by Fedya View Post
    So is the general consensus that Thelm stick with the HC off pieces, since the 4PC is really only important for DPS rankings? He really needs to kill H Garrosh this week, and I don't want him making me tank since he's falling over dead all the time. Thanks.
    If you have higher than 570 equipped it doesn't matter what the fuck you wear. And if you have less than ~565 you are probably better off with T15 4p.
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  6. #5046
    Quote Originally Posted by Fedya View Post
    So is the general consensus that Thelm stick with the HC off pieces, since the 4PC is really only important for DPS rankings? He really needs to kill H Garrosh this week, and I don't want him making me tank since he's falling over dead all the time. Thanks.
    The 4p is not terrible, nor is it awesome (other than for dps). It will most often boil down to what is your highest item level pieces. If you are equipping LFR set pieces over Heroic off-pieces to get the 4p your doing it wrong in my opinion. If there is a significant difference in stats, go with off pieces, if the difference is small you can pick up tier.

    In my scenario, the 4p was completely useless in terms of survival, but my scenario also does not apply for everyone. Different players will find different use for it. Generally the 4p works more help for newer and insecurer tanks. So as always with tanking, it is about finding what you like the most. I am very vocal about disliking the 4p as so many people seem to think it is impossible to live without it, whilst in reality they are creating that need themselves due to not learning how to use HoPo well. In same sense it reminds me of the old haste vs exp discussion back in T14 when you could not cap both.

    As always. Do not blindly follow anyone on the internet, not me, not the author of any guide, not any poster in any forum. Instead read what people write, learn, take stuff into consideration and then figure out what works the best for you. What makes the most sense for you, etc. Following peoples advices without understanding the reasoning behind it often yields bad results. If you cant understand someones reasoning than it can be a good idea to ask them how they think etc.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  7. #5047
    Grunt Brollgarth's Avatar
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    I get you Firefly, and I do understand where you are coming from.

    But I still hold my idea that 4set is a must.
    Reason isn't that I don't know how to manage my HP. Been playing as a prot pala since late tbc (yesh, with all the changes qq). It's just that to me, 4set feels more fluid on the uptime of SotR together with maintaining 100% uptime on EF, which isn't really hard to obtain even without it, yes. But why go to the trouble of not taking it when it's there and able to obtain?
    And I am not pushing for DPS only, through Divine Purpose the 4 set is simply too much of a help in your group on panic situations also. Countless times throwing EF to random raiders to assist with healing if needed, or stacking my SotR to 18+ secs to smoothen inc damage.


    That being said, I am talking about HC raiding, and ofc 550+ brackets. I am with you 100% on the stupid sacrifice of stats one may experience by using raid finder gear for the 4set and then go tank any HC. And I have tried that too btw, simply not worth it.
    Last edited by Brollgarth; 2014-03-25 at 10:58 AM.

  8. #5048
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    I feel like Brollgarth. A must is maybe exaggerated but convenient and comfortable, yes. It might be for some of us because we are accustomed of the normal tanking mechanic of our class from last tiers. We know how to manage HoPo and now with 4pc we can play with it (not blindingly). Although 100% EF uptime can be see as irrelevant, depending on encounters and tactics (I suppose you're talking about rankings of some kind with this ==> WoG glyph).
    The rest holds true.

    I'd add that Theck simed 4pc being worth HC off pieces but it never have been said that it is good practice to go tank HC content with a lfr one.
    It's there to inform us, now we are up to decide, with common sense and all the (precious most of the time) knowledge we can find here, what's the best to do
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velkhan View Post
    Those warriors... blizzard should rename "shout" spells to "cry" they are so good at that.

  9. #5049
    Grunt Brollgarth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moussaka View Post
    Although 100% EF uptime can be see as irrelevant, depending on encounters and tactics (I suppose you're talking about rankings of some kind with this ==> WoG glyph).
    Thank you. Phrased much better than me here!

    But also, an 100% uptime on EF, and due to the fact my personal choice on stat prio is haste 21250 rating and then stack on mastery, means more ticks from EF on me, so overall smoother inc damage on me, I don't see it as irrelevant.
    That being said, it's not a right or wrong way to go about it imho.

    It's a matter of preference. Cause where I go for mastery after the GCD haste cap, it's the way I like to play my pala on this tier, and that doesn't mean I am right and you are wrong. All valid options apply, and it's up to you to decide what's right for you.

    Closing with this, I need to say also one last thing. I really do enjoy what you guys are doing here, cause by brainstorming you get results, so thank you for the chance to participate
    Last edited by Brollgarth; 2014-03-25 at 11:15 AM.

  10. #5050
    Quote Originally Posted by Brollgarth View Post
    That being said, I am talking about HC raiding, and ofc 550+ brackets. I am with you 100% on the stupid sacrifice of stats one may experience by using raid finder gear for the 4set and then go tank any HC. And I have tried that too btw, simply not worth it.
    To be honest; how have you been able to play ProtPala this expansion without our 4-piece then?

    I've tanked all the content in the game now pretty much; and still I don't use my 4-piece on most fights (not enough gear to offset the balance, damn 10man and no WF dropping, ever).

    There's no real fight where you would benefit from 100% EF uptime, and it's most of the time better to get the Haste-cap with low-ish gear than get the 4p which only really counts for the last couple of bosses anyway. And even there it's more about the way you time your cooldowns than it is about if you have 4p or not.

    Although, sure, it is a QoL increase to wear it and forget about it. Doesn't make it all important though.

  11. #5051
    I believe my average EF uptime or 14/14H clear was 30-40% ish or something like that. 100% EF uptime is far from needed on most fights.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  12. #5052
    %40 ?

    I don't have less than %90 on any fight O.o. Well maybe immerseus.

  13. #5053
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazel View Post
    %40 ?

    I don't have less than %90 on any fight O.o. Well maybe immerseus.
    I think he was talking about overall uptime not just actively tanking uptime

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  14. #5054
    Quote Originally Posted by Soloz View Post
    I think he was talking about overall uptime not just actively tanking uptime
    Thats what I was talking about aswell? :P

  15. #5055
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazel View Post
    Thats what I was talking about aswell? :P
    Yeah, obviouly it depended on boss for boss and I was mostly off-tanking since we stacked vengeace on the warrior for higher dps.

    Most fights you dont need EF up for extended periods of time which means that a sub 50% uptime is highly likely to happen. If you have 90%+ without 4p you are really using EF too much. Like how could you possible have that on, well basically any fight.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  16. #5056
    What, well , I am running with 4 PC with glyphed WoG , so obviously I won't have less than 90%-95% uptime on EF.

    Edit : Here for example, protectors, I always solo tank the fight, been like that for quite a while now.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/k...?s=1036&e=1321

    %95 uptime on EF , %48 on glyphed WoG

    2nd edit : I am off to bed , uni 2morrow , wont post more , so dont expect me to spam the forums for a good 13 hours from now on
    Last edited by Lazel; 2014-03-26 at 01:41 AM.

  17. #5057
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazel View Post
    What, well , I am running with 4 PC with glyphed WoG , so obviously I won't have less than 90%-95% uptime on EF.

    Edit : Here for example, protectors, I always solo tank the fight, been like that for quite a while now.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/k...?s=1036&e=1321

    %95 uptime on EF , %48 on glyphed WoG

    2nd edit : I am off to bed , uni 2morrow , wont post more , so dont expect me to spam the forums for a good 13 hours from now on
    Well yeah, of course you will have higher uptime with 4p but most of that uptime is wasted, thats why without 4p you will see low uptimes since it is not beneficial to have EF up 100% of the fight.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  18. #5058
    Tbh, last time i checked, having offpieces with crit (helm,shoulders,chest) and ret legs (plus i think prot gloves) with double amp trinkets, and gemming for crit so that you stay above 50% haste, results in a net higher dps over 4p.

  19. #5059
    No, it really doesn't :P

  20. #5060
    Not near your tier on tanking skills guys, but I see 4pc not really as a MUST. But it is a nice addition.

    I play on a F&F guild. Mainly normal modes, but also dabble in some heroics. 5 this tier, for example. Lets say im among the best players in the guild, but just cba finding a guild with better progress since I cant have needed commitment.

    That said, I mainly like to keep 4pc because that way I can get away with HF'ing my co-raiders. A fucking lot. Ppl derp quite a lot and I find that without my swift EF's they'd die. With 4pc I can do that and still be able to save that "free 5-stack-EF" to myself, just in case things get hairy. Im aware that if I just forgot about rest of the raid and spent my HoPo in shields would be much better for my survability... but I'm afraid that in that scenario deeps would die much more. Hell, I even spec on HA on Galakras HC to fully EF blanket raid. THAT gave us our first kill.

    Dunno, mybe I need to trust my healers a bit more.

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