1. #5361
    Quote Originally Posted by PraisetheSun View Post
    ... not that EF will be remotely viable without the HoT interacting with BoG. Unless they decide that our T45 is going to suck ass (i.e, they tune everything to suck as much as no-BoG EF does) across the board, SS currently looks the winner by miles.
    If I am using the T16 4p because I need the heal RIGHT NOW, I don't give a toss about the size of the HoT. I care about the instant healing effect without being locked out of the ShoR that I need to stabilize my health.
    Intel i5 2500K (4.5 GHz) | Asus Z77 Sabertooth | 8GB Corsair Vengeance LP 1600MHz | Gigabyte Windforcex3 HD 7950 | Crucial M4 128GB | Asus Xonar DGX | Samson SR 850 | Zalman ZM-Mic1 | Western Digital Caviar Blue 500GB | Noctua NH-U12P SE2 | Fractal Design Arc Midi | Corsair HX650

    Tanking with the Blessing of Kings - The TankSpot Guide to the Protection Paladin - Updated for Patch 5.4!

  2. #5362
    The Patient PraisetheSun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    The Kingdom of Astora
    Posts
    234
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    If I am using the T16 4p because I need the heal RIGHT NOW, I don't give a toss about the size of the HoT. I care about the instant healing effect without being locked out of the ShoR that I need to stabilize my health.
    The point is that you aren't, though. I've always thought the 4-piece was an abomination because quite frankly, it encourages malpractice. To get the most out of it, you want to be specced into DP and hitting WoG/EF every time you hit 3 BoG stacks just to cheese SotR uptime. If you get into a sticky, low-health situation while doing so with HS and LoH on CD, you're fucking done for. It's why I'll never willingly use it - I've yet to see a prot paladin using it that hasn't developed awful habits. I'm sure there are plenty of y'all out there who use the 4-set and don't do stupid stuff as a result, but the people I've seen up-close and personal do some downright retarded stuff because of it and die to shit they shouldn't ever die to.

    On top of that issue, it lowers the skillcap so much it's almost funny. EF is engaging to play with because there's an opportunity cost, unlike with SS. SS is a completely fucking braindead talent that requires exactly 0 thought to use passably, whereas using EF without the 4-set requires you to make smart decisions about when you can afford to EF, and when you absolutely need to SotR. Using the 4-set just turns us back into buttonspammerino facerolladin again, which is why I've hated the bonus and actively avoided it since day 1.

  3. #5363
    Quote Originally Posted by PraisetheSun View Post
    ... not that EF will be remotely viable without the HoT interacting with BoG. Unless they decide that our T45 is going to suck ass (i.e, they tune everything to suck as much as no-BoG EF does) across the board, SS currently looks the winner by miles.
    Change the 4 set to remove the global of SS!

    Or something :S

    Quote Originally Posted by PraisetheSun View Post
    On top of that issue, it lowers the skillcap so much it's almost funny. EF is engaging to play with because there's an opportunity cost, unlike with SS. SS is a completely fucking braindead talent that requires exactly 0 thought to use passably, whereas using EF without the 4-set requires you to make smart decisions about when you can afford to EF, and when you absolutely need to SotR. Using the 4-set just turns us back into buttonspammerino facerolladin again, which is why I've hated the bonus and actively avoided it since day 1.
    Agree so much with that
    Last edited by Lazel; 2014-07-05 at 02:27 AM.

  4. #5364
    I think quite a bit of my initial discomfort with not having the 4p was simply the lack of Weakauras on Alpha (now beta). It is kind of ridiculous how much you can learn to depend on a certain addon.

    Well, that and having about 3% haste in the level 100 premade gear, because that is all Crit and Multistrike.
    Intel i5 2500K (4.5 GHz) | Asus Z77 Sabertooth | 8GB Corsair Vengeance LP 1600MHz | Gigabyte Windforcex3 HD 7950 | Crucial M4 128GB | Asus Xonar DGX | Samson SR 850 | Zalman ZM-Mic1 | Western Digital Caviar Blue 500GB | Noctua NH-U12P SE2 | Fractal Design Arc Midi | Corsair HX650

    Tanking with the Blessing of Kings - The TankSpot Guide to the Protection Paladin - Updated for Patch 5.4!

  5. #5365
    Elemental Lord MerinPally's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Chemistry block.
    Posts
    8,268
    I've decided out of boredom to go find my really old posts and edit pictures into them and see if anyone notices and messages me about it. I have 20minutes before Wimbledon, I can do this.

  6. #5366
    Still no idea why some of my weak auras bug out when I hit 1.1 M vengeance ><. -.-

  7. #5367
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazel View Post
    Still no idea why some of my weak auras bug out when I hit 1.1 M vengeance ><. -.-
    link them ?

  8. #5368
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazel View Post
    Still no idea why some of my weak auras bug out when I hit 1.1 M vengeance ><. -.-
    On what boss are you hitting those numbers? Malkorok with high stacks or?
    My 10 man 2 nights 6 hours a week raiding guild at 14/14 heroic recruting for WoD and Mystic
    www.avalerion.eu

  9. #5369
    Quote Originally Posted by Zambal View Post
    On what boss are you hitting those numbers? Malkorok with high stacks or?
    Knowing Lazel... every boss.



  10. #5370

  11. #5371
    Quote Originally Posted by Zambal View Post
    On what boss are you hitting those numbers? Malkorok with high stacks or?
    Timing ShoR so that it lands after the server registers which buffs are up when calculating the swing damage, but before the vengeance calculation happens. Means that you take the normal damage without ShoR calculated in, but the game thinks that ShoR was up when you took that damage (so you get twice the vengeance for the same amount of damage taken).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    Dem /sit macros
    Critical hits do not give double vengeance since 5.3
    Intel i5 2500K (4.5 GHz) | Asus Z77 Sabertooth | 8GB Corsair Vengeance LP 1600MHz | Gigabyte Windforcex3 HD 7950 | Crucial M4 128GB | Asus Xonar DGX | Samson SR 850 | Zalman ZM-Mic1 | Western Digital Caviar Blue 500GB | Noctua NH-U12P SE2 | Fractal Design Arc Midi | Corsair HX650

    Tanking with the Blessing of Kings - The TankSpot Guide to the Protection Paladin - Updated for Patch 5.4!

  12. #5372
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    Timing ShoR so that it lands after the server registers which buffs are up when calculating the swing damage, but before the vengeance calculation happens. Means that you take the normal damage without ShoR calculated in, but the game thinks that ShoR was up when you took that damage (so you get twice the vengeance for the same amount of damage taken).

    - - - Updated - - -




    Critical hits do not give double vengeance since 5.3
    I know about that, but it still would not give me 1.1 mil vengeance on most bosses, maybe garrosh and paragons if I manage to do it alot of times in a row...
    My 10 man 2 nights 6 hours a week raiding guild at 14/14 heroic recruting for WoD and Mystic
    www.avalerion.eu

  13. #5373
    I don't cheese vengeance on any boss but Malkorok at 15 stacks and Garrosh/Nazgrim :P

    I'll record a malkorok 25 heroic kill and put it on youtube so you guys can see how I do it.

    Edit: So , the bosses you get vengeance capped on (not 900k or shit like that, 1.1 M)

    Malkorok gives you cap around 52-55 stacks, need shitloads of externals after that though, need to chain vigilance/sac/pain sup, or if you are lucky with Divine Purpose procs (so your sotr never drops, you just need an external while it is up, along with DP/Meta gem)

    Thok gives you cap if you solo tank first phase, gives you around 620k-650k at end of water phase (prolly less in bat phase - never tried fire phase)

    Garrosh , no fucking idea on 25 man never killed it.

    Paragons give you vengeance cap if you tank both Locust & Wind Reaver. (tbh I solo tank all the bosses except for first 2 and Korven)

    Juggernaut gives 1M max with 10 stacks and if you cheese 1x melee attack, 10 stacks give around 900k-950k. But you are likely to die if you cheese it.

    Eh, thats it I guess, we're not monks so yeah you can't cap with diffuse + zen med macro (this is so hard btw, requires so much skill, not)

    2nd edit, forgot about siegecrafter, you can get around 650k vengeance around 9th stack if you tank both the boss and the shredder.

    3rd edit , if you really want to cheese vengeance shitloads of times get a cancelaura for Sotr and melee swing timer. (I don't use cancelaura myself, if you are good with timings, you can do it 10-12 times in a row with holy avenger, even though I really don't suggest you to do it because cheesing vengeance is so fucking cheap and it's not intended, get your ranks/pads without it, be like me, use it as much as you want to in cms though, don't care about that :P)
    Last edited by Lazel; 2014-07-21 at 04:06 PM.

  14. #5374
    When you take 55-60 stacks at Malkorok, do you take the Blood Rage too? We just want to get through in one evening, so I don't get to do anything deemed "crazy"

    Well, when everybody has their mount (another 3-4 weeks) I might.
    Intel i5 2500K (4.5 GHz) | Asus Z77 Sabertooth | 8GB Corsair Vengeance LP 1600MHz | Gigabyte Windforcex3 HD 7950 | Crucial M4 128GB | Asus Xonar DGX | Samson SR 850 | Zalman ZM-Mic1 | Western Digital Caviar Blue 500GB | Noctua NH-U12P SE2 | Fractal Design Arc Midi | Corsair HX650

    Tanking with the Blessing of Kings - The TankSpot Guide to the Protection Paladin - Updated for Patch 5.4!

  15. #5375
    Depends if you have sotr up or not, you get 1 shotted without sotr ( I hope you don't mean solo soaking, because there is absolutely no way you can solo soak blood rage with 55 stacks, hell no way with 20-25 stacks, not on 25 man)

  16. #5376
    Elemental Lord MerinPally's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Chemistry block.
    Posts
    8,268
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    Critical hits do not give double vengeance since 5.3
    Back in my day... and then earlier, when vengeance didn't exist.

  17. #5377
    Grunt Accurate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Ottawa, Ontario
    Posts
    20
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazel View Post
    3rd edit , if you really want to cheese vengeance shitloads of times get a cancelaura for Sotr and melee swing timer. (I don't use cancelaura myself, if you are good with timings, you can do it 10-12 times in a row with holy avenger, even though I really don't suggest you to do it because cheesing vengeance is so fucking cheap and it's not intended, get your ranks/pads without it, be like me, use it as much as you want to in cms though, don't care about that :P)
    I still wish abusing the vengeance bug made paladins more viable in CM speed runs, but the class does no damage compared to a DK/monk and can't pull off some of the other more interesting bugs in them for faster times.

    But meh, with how things are looking currently on beta I'm debating on just swapping back to my DK for WoD anyways so who knows.
    Last edited by Accurate; 2014-07-21 at 08:29 PM.

  18. #5378
    Quote Originally Posted by Accurate View Post
    I still wish abusing the vengeance bug made paladins more viable in CM speed runs, but the class does no damage compared to a DK/monk and can't pull off some of the other more interesting bugs in them for faster times.

    But meh, with how things are looking currently on beta I'm debating on just swapping back to my DK for WoD anyways so who knows.
    Why not? With proper healer, you can pull numbers no other tank can pull. While boosting cms with my team, frost mage disc and prot pala (me obviously) I pull insanely high numbers on numerous bosses, like 2.8 M on lilian, boss dies 15 secs after she spawns, around 1.1 M first boss in SM , 860k on 2nd boss in SM, around 950k on 3rd boss of SM (basically we cheese the fuck out of SM) Around 900k on first boss of SH and 450-550k on last boss of SH.

    But then again, you can't compete with monks on times.

  19. #5379
    Grunt Accurate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Ottawa, Ontario
    Posts
    20
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazel View Post
    Why not? With proper healer, you can pull numbers no other tank can pull. While boosting cms with my team, frost mage disc and prot pala (me obviously) I pull insanely high numbers on numerous bosses, like 2.8 M on lilian, boss dies 15 secs after she spawns, around 1.1 M first boss in SM , 860k on 2nd boss in SM, around 950k on 3rd boss of SM (basically we cheese the fuck out of SM) Around 900k on first boss of SH and 450-550k on last boss of SH.

    But then again, you can't compete with monks on times.
    My time is roughly 1min+ faster in SM on my paladin but with my DK abusing the ghost I can just 1 shot bosses and trash (How the top DK time in the world is done). In scholomance you can control undead a ghoul that does pretty crazy damage on a few of the bosses also, never mind the fact you can dark sim abilites that hit for millions in quite a few. Also the fact monk/DK need basically 0 external healing for the most part, (monk especially the case) and can do some kiting easier to do bigger pulls (3 dps and 1 healer do the boss at the top of the elevator in GSS and tank just kites mobs till the boss dies then you pull all that trash +3rd boss). I just don't see a point trying to compete on my paladin if it's so much easier to do on a monk/DK and I think that's how it for most people that do times somewhat competitive.

    Be different for WoD probably as brewmaster sustain is non-existant (will most likely change) and DK seems incredibly strong still for dps, but shall see.
    Last edited by Accurate; 2014-07-22 at 06:46 AM.

  20. #5380
    You just cap on every single dungeon as monk, not even funny tbh.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •