1. #961
    Moderator Fhi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Carnished Toast
    Posts
    3,219
    Quote Originally Posted by Auk View Post
    It's very likely that this is just to make HP that little bit easier to fit into our rotation. If you're refreshing SS when it has less than 5 seconds remaining it's already very hard to spare a GCD even just for ES/LH.
    Doesn't make sense that holy prism would be on a difference GCD than the other two in the same tier.

    Paladin and D3 Moderator | MMO-C Guidelines | Signature and avatar art by Dancing Hare

  2. #962
    High Overlord Auk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    England
    Posts
    127
    Quote Originally Posted by Fhi View Post
    Doesn't make sense that holy prism would be on a difference GCD than the other two in the same tier.
    Why not? You have to use Holy Prism 3x as much as both Light's Hammer and Execution Sentence to get the most use out of it. What doesn't make sense is that not all of our abilities are affected by our melee haste but that's another matter. :P

  3. #963
    The only thing that doesn't make sense is why LH, SS and ES also do not scale with haste. That is just plain stupid since they are a part of our base rotation. I would buy like our hands or cleanse having 1.5 s GCD perma, but not our rotational abilities.

    Also strange why HP got it and the other not, however feels like HP is the correct one and that LH and ES is designed badly.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-28 at 09:49 PM ----------

    Edit: Just convinced a pug we had on Elegon HC ( holy paladin ) that the reason I was using a healing shield as a tank was because there was a bug, that when bosses hit me, I get healed instead of damaged because I use the healing shield.

    "WOW dude! OP!"

    Also, still love tanking haha, finished the top of damage done in our raid group on elegon hc.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  4. #964
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Edit: Just convinced a pug we had on Elegon HC ( holy paladin ) that the reason I was using a healing shield as a tank was because there was a bug, that when bosses hit me, I get healed instead of damaged because I use the healing shield.
    Really? OMG OP! :O

  5. #965
    Herald of the Titans Grimord's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Portugal
    Posts
    2,626
    Guys, a couple pages back someone mentioned the current best enchant is Colossus.. Is this right? Was going through my WoL segments and noticed that, for example, in our first HC Spirit Kings kill I got 480k absorbed through it. While it isn't *too* bad, through the course of an entire fight it isn't that much (it isn't even enough to cover my HP unbuffed).


  6. #966

  7. #967
    Still depends what you are going for. The question you have to ask yourself, is any weapon enchant really that great for defensive purposes? When I asked myself that question, the answer for me was... no...

    So I have decided to use Dancing Steel / Windsong depending on what boss I am progressing. ( Windsong favors high AP figths where Dancing Steel favors low AP figths ).
    simply for the damage purposes as for me, no enchants are that great for defensive purposes.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  8. #968
    I would say dancing steel pretty much all day if you have a 502 weapon or higher. Colossus is pretty underwhelming and dancing steel both has good offensive and defensive value to it.

  9. #969
    Windsong at this point is pretty much not viable if you fancy any somewhat serious content. DS is more reliable and more effective as proven from Theck in terms of offensive gains AND defensive gains than Windsong. It is, of course, more expensive, which may matter to some.

    That said, I use Colossus all day, erry day. At moderate levels of vengeance, the AP gained from DS begins to wash, so the bonus there was a bit lost to me. Likewise, I feel that the passive and more consistent TDR/smoothing provided by the many (albeit small) shields outweigh the gain in parry/TDR. This is especially true on tank swap fights, where the bubbles can still cover raid dmg and/or persist through until you take back threat. DS loses its defensive bonus if the proc occurs while offtanking or during a transition/run&getadds phase. Plus, Colossus shields absorb spell dmg, which parry does nothing to mitigate.

    8k isn't going to save you if you're destined for the dirt, most likely. But, given the low priority of D/P and the unreliable nature of its use in practice, I still prefer Colossus to augment my SS.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  10. #970
    Herald of the Titans Grimord's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Portugal
    Posts
    2,626
    Thanks folks (and for Theck's numbers) .


  11. #971
    Quote Originally Posted by Teks View Post
    I would say dancing steel pretty much all day if you have a 502 weapon or higher. Colossus is pretty underwhelming and dancing steel both has good offensive and defensive value to it.
    Fail to see what the weapon enchant has to do with the item level of the weapon. It is all very simple.

    Colossus for small absorbs
    DS for small gain in dps.

    Take your pick.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  12. #972
    Herald of the Titans Grimord's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Portugal
    Posts
    2,626
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Fail to see what the weapon enchant has to do with the item level of the weapon. It is all very simple.

    Colossus for small absorbs
    DS for small gain in dps.

    Take your pick.
    I think I'll stick with Colossus since it does help smooth incoming damage a little, even if not that much. The extra DPS is also attractive for 10-man heroics (what we raid) but our current setup is actually pretty good in terms of dps so I doubt it'll be necessary, though I'll keep it around if I see myself wiping on 5% enrage timers.


  13. #973
    I've been using Dancing Steel, for the increased damage and the minor parry I gain. The uptime is pretty good, usually 35-50%. I did check one a log of Treckie from Method, on 25H kills. Colossus numbers don't look that hot to me.

    Imperial Vizier Zor'lok: 40.6% uptime, 240k absorb
    Blade Lord Ta'yak: 17.5% uptime, 192k absorb
    Garalon: 9.3% uptime, 328k absorb
    Wind Lord Mel'Jarak: 7% uptime, 340k absorb
    Amber-Shaper Un'Sok: 13.7% uptime, 312k absorb
    Grand Empress Shek'zeer: 25% uptime, 560k absorb

    Feng the Accursed: 14.6% uptime, 272k absorb
    Gara'jal the Spiritbinder: 15.7% uptime, 128k absorb
    Spirit Kings: 35.3% uptime, 368k absorb
    Elegon: 33.2% uptime, 208k absorb
    Will of the Emperor: 5.8% uptime, 544k absorb



  14. #974
    Quote Originally Posted by promdate View Post
    I've been using Dancing Steel, for the increased damage and the minor parry I gain. The uptime is pretty good, usually 35-50%. I did check one a log of Treckie from Method, on 25H kills. Colossus numbers don't look that hot to me.
    If enough tanks use DPS enchants, maybe they'll buff the tank ones!

    (Yes, I'm in a bit of a cynical mood today)
    Intel i5 2500K (4.5 GHz) | Asus Z77 Sabertooth | 8GB Corsair Vengeance LP 1600MHz | Gigabyte Windforcex3 HD 7950 | Crucial M4 128GB | Asus Xonar DGX | Samson SR 850 | Zalman ZM-Mic1 | Western Digital Caviar Blue 500GB | Noctua NH-U12P SE2 | Fractal Design Arc Midi | Corsair HX650

    Tanking with the Blessing of Kings - The TankSpot Guide to the Protection Paladin - Updated for Patch 5.4!

  15. #975
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    If enough tanks use DPS enchants, maybe they'll buff the tank ones!

    (Yes, I'm in a bit of a cynical mood today)
    The other options are a Dodge proc (lol), an unreliable proc enchant for two stats I wouldn't mind, and one that gives a mediocre bubble periodically. In all honestly, Colossus for 25H raiders isn't that impressive. Going back to the previous log that I got those numbers from, the tank took 40,496,002 damage on Wind Lord. Colossus absorbed only 336k of it. 0.008297% of the damage taken was absorbed by Colossus. Yeah, that seems really good.

    Across the entire raid log (12 bosses, wipes/kills, and trash) he took 497,233,525 damage. Colossus absorbed 6,604,800 total damage. That's .013283% absorbed. Colossus seems really good for heroic dungeons, and probably even challenge modes. Things that don't hit for that much, letting you absorb more of the damage. For a boss that hits you for 200k, you only absorb .0375% of the damage.

    So yeah, I'd rather use an enchant that can pull double duty of dps+parry increase than one that absorbs so little that it's better on trash than a raid boss.

    edit: I only showed actual damage taken on Wind Lord. If you take absorbs into account, he took "58,594,464" damage. 0.005734 of the "total" damage was absorbed by Colossus.
    Last edited by Promdates; 2013-01-29 at 07:42 PM.



  16. #976
    Moderator Fhi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Carnished Toast
    Posts
    3,219
    Right. Different question from me. If I am much beyond hit cap and already at expertise capped, what should my blue sockets be? I put in haste + stamina but I am wondering if something else might be better.

    Paladin and D3 Moderator | MMO-C Guidelines | Signature and avatar art by Dancing Hare

  17. #977
    If the socket bonus is good, haste stam is fine. If the socket bonus isnt desirable then just go for haste. Or you can just go pure stam. Depends on you feel about your health pool.

    Gem Diagram
    As you ca see form the diagram, there isn't anything to get from blue aside from hit stam. I guess you could gem hit then change some reforges to haste.
    Last edited by Monolith of Mazes; 2013-01-29 at 08:14 PM.

  18. #978
    Moderator Fhi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Carnished Toast
    Posts
    3,219
    Quote Originally Posted by Monolith of Mazes View Post
    If the socket bonus is good, haste stam is fine. If the socket bonus isnt desirable then just go for haste. Or you can just go pure stam. Depends on you feel about your health pool.

    Gem Diagram
    As you ca see form the diagram, there isn't anything to get from blue aside from hit stam. I guess you could gem hit then change some reforges to haste.
    Each piece with hit is already reforged to something else, hence why I had to look at replacing gems now. I'm still at very low ilevel (483), so stamina is relatively more useful to me until I can get better gear. Or if.

    Paladin and D3 Moderator | MMO-C Guidelines | Signature and avatar art by Dancing Hare

  19. #979
    High Overlord Auk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    England
    Posts
    127
    Quote Originally Posted by promdate View Post
    The other options are a Dodge proc (lol), an unreliable proc enchant for two stats I wouldn't mind, and one that gives a mediocre bubble periodically. In all honestly, Colossus for 25H raiders isn't that impressive. Going back to the previous log that I got those numbers from, the tank took 40,496,002 damage on Wind Lord. Colossus absorbed only 336k of it. 0.008297% of the damage taken was absorbed by Colossus. Yeah, that seems really good.

    Across the entire raid log (12 bosses, wipes/kills, and trash) he took 497,233,525 damage. Colossus absorbed 6,604,800 total damage. That's .013283% absorbed. Colossus seems really good for heroic dungeons, and probably even challenge modes. Things that don't hit for that much, letting you absorb more of the damage. For a boss that hits you for 200k, you only absorb .0375% of the damage.

    So yeah, I'd rather use an enchant that can pull double duty of dps+parry increase than one that absorbs so little that it's better on trash than a raid boss.

    edit: I only showed actual damage taken on Wind Lord. If you take absorbs into account, he took "58,594,464" damage. 0.005734 of the "total" damage was absorbed by Colossus.
    Your error is looking at total damage taken rather than what actually matters: how spiky the damage is. Colossus is the best enchant for damage smoothing, Dancing Steel is the best for DPS and River Song is most likely the best for TDR.

  20. #980
    Quote Originally Posted by Auk View Post
    Your error is looking at total damage taken rather than what actually matters: how spiky the damage is. Colossus is the best enchant for damage smoothing, Dancing Steel is the best for DPS and River Song is most likely the best for TDR.
    The biggest error in the whole "damage smoothening" debate, is that people assume that the damage you take throughout an encounter is static. I ask you, please, go check your damage taken on most boss fights, then ask yourself, how much use will that colossus proc actually be?

    In a raid environment when you wont drop below 95% life for the most part of the fight, that proc won't do anything. the hots from the healers are already overhealing so that proc is in effect just more overhealing most of the time.

    It is the best enchant for "smoothening" ( dont really wanna call it that ) in the same way dodge and parry is the best stats for TDR. You gotta ask your self, what is the real effect in a real raid environment, not on paper. What good is a small absorb if all it does is make the healers dots overheal you instead.

    Imo, the term smoothening gets thrown around to much. For anything to be called "smoothening", it needs to reduce a % of damage, not a static amount.


    Basically, if I get an absorb for say 10k, and the boss hits me 20k, I reduced 50% of the damage. If the boss instead hits for me for 400k, I only reduced 2.5% of the damage. That is not damage smoothening, that is damage reduction.
    Last edited by Firefly33; 2013-01-30 at 02:47 AM.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •