1. #1001
    Deleted
    Perhaps a stupid question from someone who only ever played Retribution & Holy:
    As I currently have pretty haste-heavy retribution gear, if I find a suitable weapon and shield, will it at the same time be a viable tanking set?
    No particular reason for asking, I'm just bored and waiting for 4.2

  2. #1002
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkcrusader View Post
    Perhaps a stupid question from someone who only ever played Retribution & Holy:
    As I currently have pretty haste-heavy retribution gear, if I find a suitable weapon and shield, will it at the same time be a viable tanking set?
    No particular reason for asking, I'm just bored and waiting for 4.2
    As long as it doesn't have Crit.

  3. #1003
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Monolith of Mazes View Post
    New 5.2 class thread

    Paladin
    To stave off the controversial Protection haste issue, we are making a chance to Grand Crusader to proc from dodge and parry at 25% instead of CS and HotR at 20%. This will improve dodge and parry slightly for active mitigation purposes without negating the +haste slant that many paladins have taken.

    Thoughts? Thoughts? Thoughts?

    I haven't played protection this tier as much as everyone else of the active posters in here, but i think it's a decent solution. The benefits of haste will still be there and we can continue to stack it but when we see a dodge parry item it won't be an automatic "i pass".
    How do you think this will affect gameplay ultimately?

  4. #1004
    Me likey!!

    This looks like a single-target dps nerf (a slight one though) and a multi-target buff.
    Last edited by Butler to Baby Sloths; 2013-02-04 at 10:47 PM.

  5. #1005
    I'm glad they're not trying to kill haste with fire, but I'm not glad they're doing it through an ability thats both RNG and off tank unfriendly

  6. #1006
    Deleted
    I think the change itself is stupid but the impact of it is minor so as long as it doesn't mess up so much I am happy.

    Kinda off-topic but talking about GC procs, procced 7 times in a row for me on Gara'Jal this week in the pull lol, was suprised. Sitting there "1 more? YES 1 MORE!"

    Funny thing though. This change still doesn't "nerf haste". Since we will get less procs = more times we have to wait the entire cooldown = haste will reduce the cd more often.

    Don't have maths rigth now, but very likely this changed absolutely nothing in haste value.
    Last edited by mmoc4d8e5d065a; 2013-02-04 at 10:41 PM.

  7. #1007
    My napkin math says 7.2% less GC procs in my gear (25.4% avoidance, 18.78% haste) on a boss with a 1.5s swing timer (Elegon, for example).

    This change still doesn't "nerf haste".
    Remember, he said he didn't want to nerf haste, but buff avoidance.

  8. #1008
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Don't have maths rigth now, but very likely this changed absolutely nothing in haste value.
    Kind of exactly my feeling on this. It just gives a consolation prize for getting "less than ideal" stats, doesn't make us aim for them.

    But SHHHHH, don't tell them that!

    edit: I don't see anything about an ICD on this. Granted, it's early development, but...without an ICD, things like Wind Lord are going to be TEH LULZ DPS. Should non-trivially help on trash as well, assuming 2-3 adds on us.
    Last edited by Nairobi; 2013-02-04 at 10:51 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  9. #1009
    Did anyone else notice this was taken directly from Thecks blog over at Sacred Duty?

    "It’s not hard to come up with mechanics that would do just that [fix avoidance]. Here are a few examples:

    Change Grand Crusader’s trigger from CS/HotR to avoidance. Thus, avoiding an attack would have a chance to refresh the cooldown of Avenger’s Shield and grant holy power. That might be too similar to Revenge, but it covers all the bases: gives us something active to do and ties into our active mitigation through resource generation."

  10. #1010
    Quote Originally Posted by Luciferiuz View Post
    Did anyone else notice this was taken directly from Thecks blog over at Sacred Duty?

    "It’s not hard to come up with mechanics that would do just that [fix avoidance]. Here are a few examples:

    Change Grand Crusader’s trigger from CS/HotR to avoidance. Thus, avoiding an attack would have a chance to refresh the cooldown of Avenger’s Shield and grant holy power. That might be too similar to Revenge, but it covers all the bases: gives us something active to do and ties into our active mitigation through resource generation."
    It's been bouncing around on mtadin for a while. Theck started it though (I think).

  11. #1011
    Deleted
    Well, it is kind of a natural idea. Do not think they wanted to add more procs to us, so this one was one of the few that made sense.

    Lets just hope blizzard does not understand that this still doesnt change the value of dodge and parry and haste.

    I wonder how this will work on figths with alot of trash? And soloing old content? No ICD? Perma procs.

  12. #1012
    Rather like Revenge has worked for Warriors for the last 3 years in that respect. Isn't out of the ordinary.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darielle//maintankadin
    In fact, as Ahti(Branar) said in that thread, when you're AoE tanking, you start getting into a point where Haste becomes even more valuable because it'll also allow you to prevent procs being wasted during the gcd's by giving you a shorter gcd.
    Hadn't thought of that.
    Last edited by Butler to Baby Sloths; 2013-02-04 at 11:23 PM.

  13. #1013
    Rather not take a kick to the groin on single target dps to benefit two stats paladins still wont want on there gear. So now the story is, get your regular haste gear for regular tanking, and build a parry/dodge set of gear for any boss with lots of adds, or run to get reforged a few times a night boss to boss?

  14. #1014
    I seriously doubt getting 5% less GC proccs is going to be a "kick to the groin".

  15. #1015
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    I seriously doubt getting 5% less GC proccs is going to be a "kick to the groin".

    Are you tanking every boss 100% of the time? Guess what you arent getting when you and your off tank are swapping the boss, no GC procs. When i look at recount AS seems like a pretty important part of our dps.

  16. #1016
    Quote Originally Posted by Tax View Post
    Are you tanking every boss 100% of the time? Guess what you arent getting when you and your off tank are swapping the boss, no GC procs. When i look at recount AS seems like a pretty important part of our dps.
    I actually didn't see that at first but that does seem fairly accurate.

    Touche sir.

  17. #1017
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Luciferiuz View Post
    I actually didn't see that at first but that does seem fairly accurate.

    Touche sir.
    Though, any figth with more than 1 mob attacking you, or a mechanic with multiple attacks / attack speed on the boss ( e.g. sha ) will give you more procs, so it evens outs.

  18. #1018
    If anyone's been on the ptr, how is damage taken by the tank looking in the next tier?

    Been suspecting it's a little low now to allow us to get into the groove of active mitigation, since it's the first tier we are using it (Not counting Dragon Soul post 5.0, as the content wasn't designed/balanced around it. We also had the debuff at, what was it, 35% at that point?). As well, obviously the system rewards good performance and timing, while lapses in good execution can be a bit punishing. If you're taking easily survivable damage consistently, you've got the sequence down (In addition to the aforementioned tuning of the content.)

    There's at least two caveats here unfortunately. At least a few of the people saying "I don't ever feel in danger of dying", are 1 - talking about content they have on farm. 2 - only ~6/16H currently.

    Not trying to say I'm any better, I'm also only at 6/16, with a group that recently had to dissolve due to roster size. Oh well, sadface.
    Last edited by Elathi; 2013-02-05 at 03:25 AM.

  19. #1019
    Deleted
    PTRs are often downscaled as they are not interested in the numbers as much as if the mechanics actually work, so hard to tell how the tank damage is since it will probably be different live. We just have to wait and see. Though given how much the item levels are rising, with gear from the next raid, I expect the damage to be the same / maybe even less in comparison to now.

  20. #1020
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Though, any figth with more than 1 mob attacking you, or a mechanic with multiple attacks / attack speed on the boss ( e.g. sha ) will give you more procs, so it evens outs.
    Perhaps, but they havent said anything about an icd on the proc. I doubt they will let us chain proc AS non stop if were in a position of tanking a bunch of adds at once. Some of the time zero procs, or depending on the fight a bunch of procs. Sounds like a gimmicky and lazy design choice.

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