1. #1181
    Epic! rawhammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teks View Post
    Are you seriously saying crit will be a better stat than a dodge in 5.2? With the GC change?
    Also, unless Blizzard decides to fix it it's possible to dodge some boss debuff abilites in the next tier.
    I get that dodge isn't a good stat, but crit is right there with it at the bottom for all intents and purposes.
    I think this comes down to what content you're doing (again). In a 10 man scenario the tanks just aren't in any real danger of dying, hence tbh crit would benefit the raid more, particularly where tank dps matters. 25 man, I dunno not tried, but I'm guessing survivability is more of an issue on progression fights?.

    Just from my experience, tank deaths are a non issue in 10 man. Dps requirements are.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-15 at 11:42 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Yeah, in most experiences when I have helped protection paladins with their gear, they have always been able to reforge / regem their gear to fit 600 hit and 600 expertise in a good way. I think I saw your armory in prot gear yesterday and saw that you had a lot of hit on your gear and expertise.

    KYou could probably still fit a mastery, haste, expertise cogs into a GID and get some of that reforged / regemmed expertise into haste/mastery. Lei-Shens proc could almost be considered a stat bank, since it does not really provide any survivability, it is just a dps increase (even though uneven). I often consider most unreliable procs as stat banks.

    And as I said before, hard to compare stamina trinkets to other trinkets. I have not yet found a fight where I want to have stamina trinkets so I have always used two stat trinkets. To which purpose Lei-Shen and GID is by far the two best choices.

    That Lei-Shen and GID are the two best secondary stat trinkets is just beyond questioning. Tho which is better is debatable. If your gear allows for reforging hit and exp, it is basically 600 haste vs the strength proc. If it doesn't, then Lei'Shen usually pulls ahead.
    ive said it before, but i think the 2 on use trash drops trinkets from msv cover pretty much any situation you could ask for:
    Stam + on use mastery
    Strength + on use haste

    Both mini cds on a 1 min cd. Awesomeness.
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  2. #1182
    Quote Originally Posted by rawhammer View Post
    I think this comes down to what content you're doing (again). In a 10 man scenario the tanks just aren't in any real danger of dying, hence tbh crit would benefit the raid more, particularly where tank dps matters. 25 man, I dunno not tried, but I'm guessing survivability is more of an issue on progression fights?.

    Just from my experience, tank deaths are a non issue in 10 man. Dps requirements are.
    Dodge and Parry doesnt add any survivability for a 25 man tank either.


    Quote Originally Posted by rawhammer View Post
    ive said it before, but i think the 2 on use trash drops trinkets from msv cover pretty much any situation you could ask for:
    Stam + on use mastery
    Strength + on use haste

    Both mini cds on a 1 min cd. Awesomeness.
    Yeah, on use cds are great, especially in heroic 25.

    Paladins how so insane amount of cds though, so often in 10 man your own CDs are enough, making trinket a matter of pure throughput on most fights.
    So the mini cds are more situational. Not to mention that stamina trinkets are pretty much wasted stats in 10's atm except for those top heroic fights, sha of fear hc, empress hc, etc.

    Other wise those two trash drops are very very nice.

    Though in 10 I still prefer to raw throughput of Lei'Shen and GID as standard and swapping in other trinkets (for me battlemaster/valor as trash doesnt drop me trinkets) when needed. That is tanking 10 ofc.

    Mastery on use is a lot better than haste on use though. The haste on use is not mindboggling really.
    Last edited by Firefly33; 2013-02-15 at 12:01 PM.
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  3. #1183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Dodge and Parry doesnt add any survivability for a 25 man tank either.




    Yeah, on use cds are great, especially in heroic 25.

    Paladins how so insane amount of cds though, so often in 10 man your own CDs are enough, making trinket a matter of pure throughput on most fights.
    So the mini cds are more situational. Not to mention that stamina trinkets are pretty much wasted stats in 10's atm except for those top heroic fights, sha of fear hc, empress hc, etc.

    Other wise those two trash drops are very very nice.

    Though in 10 I still prefer to raw throughput of Lei'Shen and GID as standard and swapping in other trinkets (for me battlemaster/valor as trash doesnt drop me trinkets) when needed. That is tanking 10 ofc.

    Mastery on use is a lot better than haste on use though. The haste on use is not mindboggling really.
    You can never have too many cds!

    On tank swap fights they really shine as you have no real wasted downtime on them, if you ken wat I men. The haste buff is quite nice for when I reapply ss at high vengeance (together with me haste cuppa coffee ).
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  4. #1184
    Quote Originally Posted by rawhammer View Post
    You can never have too many cds!

    On tank swap fights they really shine as you have no real wasted downtime on them, if you ken wat I men. The haste buff is quite nice for when I reapply ss at high vengeance (together with me haste cuppa coffee ).
    Yeah, I do not reach a new haste breakpoint for SS even with the haste use (last time I checked atleast)

    And while you can never have enough CDs, you can have so many CDs that the value of another cooldown becomes lower than the value of static stats.

    It is kinda the same argument with spirit and healers. Ofc you can never have enough spirit as a healer, but if you never oom, you end every fight with a lot of mana, and people are not dieng by lack of heals ofc, then that spirit would be better spent in other stats that provide more throughput. Same goes for tank cds. Better spending those points into other stuff providing you do not need those extra cds. Which is why I think use trinkets are more situational.

    Do you need those extra cds? Will passive stats benefit you more? I used the extra cds for Emperors, Empress and Sha so far.
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  5. #1185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Yeah, I do not reach a new haste breakpoint for SS even with the haste use (last time I checked atleast)

    And while you can never have enough CDs, you can have so many CDs that the value of another cooldown becomes lower than the value of static stats.

    It is kinda the same argument with spirit and healers. Ofc you can never have enough spirit as a healer, but if you never oom, you end every fight with a lot of mana, and people are not dieng by lack of heals ofc, then that spirit would be better spent in other stats that provide more throughput. Same goes for tank cds. Better spending those points into other stuff providing you do not need those extra cds. Which is why I think use trinkets are more situational.

    Do you need those extra cds? Will passive stats benefit you more? I used the extra cds for Emperors, Empress and Sha so far.
    tbh i think you can put that argument on it's head - do you really need those passive stats, or would it not be better to have "extra oomph" for those scary moments?

    Not sure what you mean by the haste break point either re. the on use..... quicker SS refreshes are quicker.
    Last edited by rawhammer; 2013-02-15 at 03:18 PM.
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  6. #1186
    extra tik...10%/ 20%/ 30%/ 50%(i can be wrong with numbers, don't remember exactly)

  7. #1187
    Quote Originally Posted by rawhammer View Post
    tbh i think you can put that argument on it's head - do you really need those passive stats, or would it not be better to have "extra oomph" for those scary moments?
    That is the same thing I said, that is not putting it on it's head, you just changed the words.

    If you need an extra cd, ofc the cd is better. If the boss fight does not have a scary moment (or does not have a scary moment that you already cover with other CDs), then throughput is better. It is not really more complicated than that.

    Also, a haste/mastery cd is not really an "OH SHIT" cd, it is a cd you use preemptively.

    Battlemaster trinket can be an oh shit cd.
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  8. #1188
    Any numbers yet from the PTR on the proc chance of GC from there respective triggers?

  9. #1189
    Retribution pvp 4p got interesting for prot again this tier. Lets wait for final numbers on bonus and stats before jumping to conclusions though.
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  10. #1190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tax View Post
    Any numbers yet from the PTR on the proc chance of GC from there respective triggers?
    It's a 12% chance for each.

  11. #1191
    Herald of the Titans Grimord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivin View Post
    It's a 12% chance for each.
    Does it have an ICD?


  12. #1192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimord View Post
    Does it have an ICD?
    I don't think it has one now, does it? That shouldn't have changed.

  13. #1193
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    Quote Originally Posted by 30cmnobaffs View Post
    extra tik...10%/ 20%/ 30%/ 50%(i can be wrong with numbers, don't remember exactly)
    That's only really true if you let ss expire, or refresh exactly when it does. I may be bad but I always refresh well before it's about to drop off. Imo it's how often it refreshes that's what's actually important.
    Last edited by rawhammer; 2013-02-16 at 07:18 AM.
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  14. #1194
    I am Murloc! Volitar's Avatar
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    So when did they change Avenger's Shield to only silence the first target it hits? This has made me sad panda!

  15. #1195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volitar View Post
    So when did they change Avenger's Shield to only silence the first target it hits? This has made me sad panda!
    5.0? Can't quite remember tbh. And aoe silence was a bit op
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  16. #1196
    Old God MerinPally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volitar View Post
    So when did they change Avenger's Shield to only silence the first target it hits? This has made me sad panda!
    Yeah was quite a long time ago so we now have to be very selective with our silences because something I used to do and I'm sure I'm not the only one was to pick a path for our avengers to travel in (hopefully) to hit certain targets as well as your silence target, to do more damage or hit a mob which would be more useful to kill.

    Just thought I'd post in this thread because I've been quiet recently due to being busy. Make a bit of a show.

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  17. #1197
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volitar View Post
    So when did they change Avenger's Shield to only silence the first target it hits? This has made me sad panda!
    Ninja nerf too. Took a bit of making noises before they confirmed it was intended. Never made it into any hotfix notes.

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  18. #1198
    Fluffy Kitten Rivin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volitar View Post
    So when did they change Avenger's Shield to only silence the first target it hits? This has made me sad panda!
    The sad thing is that they changed it in 5.0.1, changed it back to silencing all three in an unannounced hotfix, and then changed it back again in 5.0.5 and then apparently decided it was fine that way.

  19. #1199
    Miss the 3 silence AS. It was a great tool for getting caster groups stacked up.
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  20. #1200
    Very new to tanking so this guide and the threads have been a godsend.
    However a simple question, a 2 hand weapon or one hand/shield combo?
    I know whatever has the best stats wins bit a 2 hander is generally slower so was thinking in a haste build that may not be the way to go.

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