1. #1501
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Not sure how far you are Tossy, but have you worked on HC Tortos yet?

    That bat damage, at least coupled with Quake and Rockfall, is insane at times. Factor in whatever kind of "delay" is present when attacking the humming crystal for the shield, and it is a VERY frustrating fight for the bat tank. Many times last night I had all bats rounded up, focus-judged the crystal to start my shield only to get some collateral damage which set me below 550k, and the bats just sat at 80% the whole fight.

    We ended up actually switching to me on boss, and BrM on bats, gathering them up and kiting them the whole damn fight. What's funny is, it damn near worked...rolling DoTs on the bats, we had all DPS pulling ~200k+ and were on pace to beat enrage, but ONE poorly placed rockfall/turtle wombo-combo can ruin our BrM's day.

    Interested to see if you had any tips on bats if/when we go back to the "traditional" strat; I just can't seem to stay up if a bad rockfall RNG puts me behind in shields
    Yeah we tried tortos a bit tonight after horridon died... it's obviously the easiest fight in here. 40% after like 2-3 tries.
    I'm tanking the big guy and our brewmaster is kiting the bats.
    Keeping shield up can be tricky sometimes, but usually once you've got it up to max capacity it's all about still having your SotR up for the snapping bites, quake and refresh shield with WoG spam. Was playing around with eternal flame the few inital tries, since the 100% buff to the HoT component might actually do a good job keeping it up passively. Couldn't exactly tell how well it worked, and frankly it was easy enough to keep shield up with WoG.

    That said, once in a while you have a pull where you never can seem to keep shield up because of RNG, but they're few and far between.
    Will probably drop battle healer glyph once we get a mistweaver in, because the healer aggro i'm doing to the bats is annoying.

  2. #1502
    The Patient onlychildish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tossy View Post
    Keeping shield up can be tricky sometimes, but usually once you've got it up to max capacity it's all about still having your SotR up for the snapping bites, quake and refresh shield with WoG spam.
    Honestly, when my guild was progressing on HC Tortos last night I was using a Judgment macro so it was always hitting the crystal, therefore never losing a shield and if you do and judgment is on cooldown just run over and whack it, I found that's the easiest way to do it.

  3. #1503
    Yeah Sunflora, i have a judgment macro too but i'm pretty sure you can prevent a full capacity shield from ever dropping through just playing alright. At least on 10 man, dunno bout 25.
    btw if someone wants to see how you're NOT supposed to tank phase 2 of heroic horridon. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGlAqAvXqyc
    Last edited by Tossy; 2013-03-16 at 12:24 AM.

  4. #1504
    Was just reading through the guide and noticed that in Elixir section it doesn't mention http://www.wowhead.com/item=76078, so going to try the haste/armor one in combination, but was wondering if anyone tried it before and how it compared vs str flask.

  5. #1505
    Quote Originally Posted by celinamuna View Post
    Was just reading through the guide and noticed that in Elixir section it doesn't mention http://www.wowhead.com/item=76078, so going to try the haste/armor one in combination, but was wondering if anyone tried it before and how it compared vs str flask.
    I was running it for the entire T14 on every fight. I have opted into stamina flask now in T15 since my item level is so far behind the norm.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  6. #1506
    Old God MerinPally's Avatar
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    Will add it when I get back from the shops, thanks for noticing
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valarius View Post
    Oh shut the fuck up you spack cunt.

  7. #1507
    Could have sworn I mentioned in like 40 pages ago or so. But merin never listens to me

    Used to run with Rapids + Mantid/Prismatic before they nerfed prismatic.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  8. #1508
    Old God MerinPally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Could have sworn I mentioned in like 40 pages ago or so. But merin never listens to me

    Used to run with Rapids + Mantid/Prismatic before they nerfed prismatic.
    I swear down that you're new to this thread. Nice to meet you.

    You seem like a great person.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valarius View Post
    Oh shut the fuck up you spack cunt.

  9. #1509
    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    I swear down that you're new to this thread. Nice to meet you.

    You seem like a great person.
    Long time lurker! Just have not posted much before!


    I am indeed a true gentleman!
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  10. #1510
    Can't read through all 76 pages but I just need to know. Since Mastery/Haste are our best stats is it worth it to que lfr as a dps and switch to prot only on bosses that drop shields or trinkets?

  11. #1511
    Another question. Long time wow player here, playing prot warrior successfully aka all content cleared prior this tier. Rolling Pala tank most likely. Just leveling atm.

    I read that Sacred Shield is almost mandatory. How do you use that basically, bit like warriors barrier? use it on others? As a filler? Before some magical dmg is coming? As I do not see it on "rotation" list, I would be glad to get answer, big TY in advance.

    -Paisti-

  12. #1512
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paisti View Post
    Another question. Long time wow player here, playing prot warrior successfully aka all content cleared prior this tier. Rolling Pala tank most likely. Just leveling atm.

    I read that Sacred Shield is almost mandatory. How do you use that basically, bit like warriors barrier? use it on others? As a filler? Before some magical dmg is coming? As I do not see it on "rotation" list, I would be glad to get answer, big TY in advance.

    -Paisti-
    Keep it up on you as much as you can. You should have close to 100% uptime really whenever you are taking hits from the boss (the 30s buff, not the actual absorbs). It should be in your rotation - use it before the buff falls off, or use it when CS/J is on cooldown and no GC procs. Use some common sense too - don't need to refresh it if it still has 20 seconds remaining, but do start to try to fit it into your rotation if you have, say, 10 seconds remaining. "Try" because you still don't want to prioritize it over a HP generator.

    During tank swaps, if you're not tanking, use it on the other tank instead. Or if a particular raid member is anticipating incoming large damage and you're not tanking, then put it on them. Remember that it takes 5 or so seconds before the first tick appears, so put it on you 5 or so seconds before you taunt back.

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  13. #1513
    Alright thanks =).

  14. #1514
    Basically it is a filler that you should prioritize over other fillers when it is only 5s~ left on the buff.


    Quote Originally Posted by Snagletooth View Post
    Can't read through all 76 pages but I just need to know. Since Mastery/Haste are our best stats is it worth it to que lfr as a dps and switch to prot only on bosses that drop shields or trinkets?
    Yes.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-17 at 06:18 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Fhi View Post
    During tank swaps, if you're not tanking, use it on the other tank instead. Or if a particular raid member is anticipating incoming large damage and you're not tanking, then put it on them. Remember that it takes 5 or so seconds before the first tick appears, so put it on you 5 or so seconds before you taunt back.
    If you are not tanking you are likely to have no vengeance making it pretty much useless. Best you can do is throw if up just as you swap tanks, and then do not reapply it as that would only diminish it.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  15. #1515
    Hey guys,

    I used to have a prot/holydin back in cata, but have since swapped over to brewmaster. Once I caught up in ilvl to whoever my co tank was (have had both dk & prot pally, there has always been an issue of threat on tank swap fights. We try to abusing hand of salv and bop when possible but a good keg smash crit and its back to me. My current co tank is a prot pally and he struggles mightily once that salv has run out.

    here's his armory - http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Jaini/advanced

    I think his stat priority is a bit muddled at best. He sometimes swaps between mastery/stam trinkets depending on the fight but I hear from the healers that they'd rather be healing me than him. It's my understanding from reading the guide that mastery is better at keeping damage intake smooth, but haste also does well too ?

    We've only gotten a few bosses in so far, on ToT and he doesn't have as much XP raiding in general as I do. He struggles in general to grab AOE threat on mobs, so despite him being the better choice for bat tanking, I'll probably have to do it until he's able to figure it out.

    I guess what I'm asking for is, what should he be going for? Is he doing okay on his stat reforges/gems?

    Thanks in advance.

  16. #1516
    Quote Originally Posted by wontonheroe View Post
    Hey guys,

    I used to have a prot/holydin back in cata, but have since swapped over to brewmaster. Once I caught up in ilvl to whoever my co tank was (have had both dk & prot pally, there has always been an issue of threat on tank swap fights. We try to abusing hand of salv and bop when possible but a good keg smash crit and its back to me. My current co tank is a prot pally and he struggles mightily once that salv has run out.

    here's his armory - http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Jaini/advanced

    I think his stat priority is a bit muddled at best. He sometimes swaps between mastery/stam trinkets depending on the fight but I hear from the healers that they'd rather be healing me than him. It's my understanding from reading the guide that mastery is better at keeping damage intake smooth, but haste also does well too ?

    We've only gotten a few bosses in so far, on ToT and he doesn't have as much XP raiding in general as I do. He struggles in general to grab AOE threat on mobs, so despite him being the better choice for bat tanking, I'll probably have to do it until he's able to figure it out.

    I guess what I'm asking for is, what should he be going for? Is he doing okay on his stat reforges/gems?

    Thanks in advance.
    They're not hard expertise capped, that is likely contributing to them not being able to hold threat very well. It's not required really, but if they are having threat issues, hitting higher amounts of expertise will help them not get parried as much and get better threat. I don't know the exact level of mobs on the bosses off the top of my head, so I don't know what % expertise they need to hit in order to max out their threat generation.

    They would also have a better time if they itemized for haste over mastery, shorter CD on all spells including their AoE. They're also using the focused shield glyph which is very good for single target, but if they're struggling picking up adds, having it hit two more targets will help that out a lot especially since it pops back off CD almost instantly when tanking multiple mobs.

    Their gems are also odd... Some parry gems in there that could easily be swapped out for haste/exp, or a pure of either of those... Not sure if they need the gems with stam on them, guess it depends on if you run 10 or 25

    It's my understanding from reading the guide that mastery is better at keeping damage intake smooth, but haste also does well too ?
    To clear this up for you... Mastery increases the amount of damage reduction on shield of the righteous, and also increases your passive block. Haste increases the rate at which you generate holy power, gives you more dps, and gives you more healing.

    that's really all I can see on their armory, someone else might see something I missed. Hope it helps.

  17. #1517
    Old God MerinPally's Avatar
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    Are you doing 10mans or 25mans? It makes a bit of a difference. If he's having threat issues then he should up his expertise as that will help. His weapon enchant is also potentially wrong.
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nicus/advanced
    Quote Originally Posted by Valarius View Post
    Oh shut the fuck up you spack cunt.

  18. #1518
    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    Are you doing 10mans or 25mans? It makes a bit of a difference. If he's having threat issues then he should up his expertise as that will help. His weapon enchant is also potentially wrong.
    In all actuality, going mastery for this tier even in 10-man isn't a bad idea. There are very few DPS checks, and unless you're phenomenal at predicting your HoPo generation a bit ahead in almost all situations (which can be tricky on heroic progress with how much shit is going on in these fights) you will take more damage, and spikier at that.

    Sometimes the impression i get from the current protadin crowd is that haste > everything by a mile. And yes, i know Firefly has stated that's not the case, but i've also found myself suggesting tanks that maybe shouldn't go all out haste to go all out haste. Simply because i find it enjoyable and effective.
    Mastery is equally viable, and probably even more so on this tiers fights.

    I've seen tons of logs of paladins who are going for haste even at a higher raiding level, who can barely keep their sacred shield uptime above 30%.
    If you're not absolutely sure what you're doing to maximize your survivability with a haste build, you might want to try out mastery. (this also applies if you're playing with higher latency than normal).
    That said, whichever strategy you go with, make sure to cap that hit and expertise.

  19. #1519
    Quote Originally Posted by wontonheroe View Post
    Hey guys
    Well first of, in my raid group we have been having the opposite problem. Usually on boss fights with tanks swaps I have to turn of my righteous fury for the first 1-3 tank swaps. Another tactic we used is rotating hand of salvations on me between me and the paladin healer and going to the other tank

    "Okay, You are gonna lose aggro in 4,3,2,1..."

    And I have raided with multiple tanks from different specs, so the issue is not in paladin threat.

    Though, if you are running 10 your paladin is quite poorly itemized

    1. He got to many dodge and parry pieces. That is basically 6500 rating wasted, after reforging.
    2. He is not even close to expertise cap. I am the first one to say that expertise cap is not even remotely as mandatory as most guides and paladin tanks make it out to be. However, if he is having threat issues, than getting more expertise is a start.
    3. His haste is insanely low. Ofc this will lead to poor threat. He has chosen to priortise mastery. That is fine if he is in 25 man or 10 man and he is an exceptional tank. Haste is generally better, but in some raid groups and for some tanks, mastery works out better
    It ofc come with the drawback of lower threat and lower dps.


    The best he could do is really try to get more gear itemized for his spec. What is he using his bonus rolls on? Does he know he can respec to retri before rolling to get proper tanking gear?

    After that he should practice on his rotation and get to know it by heart, and you will see that aggro is an non-issue.

    Edit: As Merin said. Dat weapon enchant.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-17 at 01:37 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Tossy View Post
    I've seen tons of logs of paladins who are going for haste even at a higher raiding level, who can barely keep their sacred shield uptime above 30%.
    If you're not absolutely sure what you're doing to maximize your survivability with a haste build, you might want to try out mastery. (this also applies if you're playing with higher latency than normal). .
    I often opt to not keep 100% uptime on sacred shield intentionally. It all depends from fight to fight. My usual uptime is between 70-100%. I do not feel like sacred shield is a mandatory thing to keep up at all times. Especially when you have low vengeance (as a result, the damage you are taking are also very low). Reapply it again like 10-15 seconds into taking high damage, as the vengeance will have gone up = bigger shields. I often (re)apply it right before I know I am going to take shitton of damage. Then I reapply is again before I know I will take low damage again (because I have high vengeance at this point). Yeah, 30% is terrible, but having 100% on every single boss fight is in my opinion a tell of a paladin that is not entirely sure what he is doing either. That is a paladin that knows what he is doing, not why. Therefor playing like a robot blindly following what he has read is the best. "The guide said to always reapply sacred shield!"


    That said, whichever strategy you go with, make sure to cap that hit and expertise.
    Well, I am the first to say, suprising that I go against the norm huh?, that capping hit and expertise is not mandatory. I would still like to see more expertise, especially in this tier, could have understood in 463 gear, than this paladin had. Though the caps are by no means a must have. God, I need to take time later to write a full length thread about hit/exp and stuff. Just been too busy with work atm.

    Sometimes the impression i get from the current protadin crowd is that haste > everything by a mile. And yes, i know Firefly has stated that's not the case, but i've also found myself suggesting tanks that maybe shouldn't go all out haste to go all out haste. Simply because i find it enjoyable and effective.
    Mastery is equally viable, and probably even more so on this tiers fights.

    In all actuality, going mastery for this tier even in 10-man isn't a bad idea. There are very few DPS checks, and unless you're phenomenal at predicting your HoPo generation a bit ahead in almost all situations (which can be tricky on heroic progress with how much shit is going on in these fights) you will take more damage, and spikier at that.
    While there are no dps checks directly, all additional damage always help. Beating the enrage by 2 minutes or 3 minutes is a huge difference. Killing a boss faster makes it extremely easy. Not to mention that on a fight like Maegare it can be the difference between getting 2 or 3 breaths on a head.

    But yeah, mastery is extremely viable, more so for 25 man tanks, but also for 10 man tanks. It will provide more survivability than haste, always have, always will. I would like to say the opposite of what you said though. If you are not that good at preidcting your HoPo generation, then haste is better. A good mastery build requires more HoPo prediction, which is all quite logical as you regenrate HoPo slower, and your shields absorb more making them more important. Haste stacking is better for the tank that is not that comfortable with SotR and how to proprely predict when to use it and when to bank up HoPo.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  20. #1520
    Old God MerinPally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tossy View Post
    In all actuality, going mastery for this tier even in 10-man isn't a bad idea. There are very few DPS checks, and unless you're phenomenal at predicting your HoPo generation a bit ahead in almost all situations (which can be tricky on heroic progress with how much shit is going on in these fights) you will take more damage, and spikier at that.
    I know, I was doing it on a more of if he's doing 25mans and having threat issues then I don't know what to say but if it's 10mans, the extra damage he'll do will help threat, if he goes haste With regards to there not being dps checks, that I wasn't aware of because I can't play for a week yet still but every little helps - but yeah, I didn't dismiss mastery as being wrong so don't worry
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valarius View Post
    Oh shut the fuck up you spack cunt.

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