1. #1501
    Deleted
    Alright thanks =).

  2. #1502
    Deleted
    Basically it is a filler that you should prioritize over other fillers when it is only 5s~ left on the buff.


    Quote Originally Posted by Snagletooth View Post
    Can't read through all 76 pages but I just need to know. Since Mastery/Haste are our best stats is it worth it to que lfr as a dps and switch to prot only on bosses that drop shields or trinkets?
    Yes.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-17 at 06:18 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Fhi View Post
    During tank swaps, if you're not tanking, use it on the other tank instead. Or if a particular raid member is anticipating incoming large damage and you're not tanking, then put it on them. Remember that it takes 5 or so seconds before the first tick appears, so put it on you 5 or so seconds before you taunt back.
    If you are not tanking you are likely to have no vengeance making it pretty much useless. Best you can do is throw if up just as you swap tanks, and then do not reapply it as that would only diminish it.

  3. #1503
    Hey guys,

    I used to have a prot/holydin back in cata, but have since swapped over to brewmaster. Once I caught up in ilvl to whoever my co tank was (have had both dk & prot pally, there has always been an issue of threat on tank swap fights. We try to abusing hand of salv and bop when possible but a good keg smash crit and its back to me. My current co tank is a prot pally and he struggles mightily once that salv has run out.

    here's his armory - http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Jaini/advanced

    I think his stat priority is a bit muddled at best. He sometimes swaps between mastery/stam trinkets depending on the fight but I hear from the healers that they'd rather be healing me than him. It's my understanding from reading the guide that mastery is better at keeping damage intake smooth, but haste also does well too ?

    We've only gotten a few bosses in so far, on ToT and he doesn't have as much XP raiding in general as I do. He struggles in general to grab AOE threat on mobs, so despite him being the better choice for bat tanking, I'll probably have to do it until he's able to figure it out.

    I guess what I'm asking for is, what should he be going for? Is he doing okay on his stat reforges/gems?

    Thanks in advance.

  4. #1504
    Quote Originally Posted by wontonheroe View Post
    Hey guys,

    I used to have a prot/holydin back in cata, but have since swapped over to brewmaster. Once I caught up in ilvl to whoever my co tank was (have had both dk & prot pally, there has always been an issue of threat on tank swap fights. We try to abusing hand of salv and bop when possible but a good keg smash crit and its back to me. My current co tank is a prot pally and he struggles mightily once that salv has run out.

    here's his armory - http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Jaini/advanced

    I think his stat priority is a bit muddled at best. He sometimes swaps between mastery/stam trinkets depending on the fight but I hear from the healers that they'd rather be healing me than him. It's my understanding from reading the guide that mastery is better at keeping damage intake smooth, but haste also does well too ?

    We've only gotten a few bosses in so far, on ToT and he doesn't have as much XP raiding in general as I do. He struggles in general to grab AOE threat on mobs, so despite him being the better choice for bat tanking, I'll probably have to do it until he's able to figure it out.

    I guess what I'm asking for is, what should he be going for? Is he doing okay on his stat reforges/gems?

    Thanks in advance.
    They're not hard expertise capped, that is likely contributing to them not being able to hold threat very well. It's not required really, but if they are having threat issues, hitting higher amounts of expertise will help them not get parried as much and get better threat. I don't know the exact level of mobs on the bosses off the top of my head, so I don't know what % expertise they need to hit in order to max out their threat generation.

    They would also have a better time if they itemized for haste over mastery, shorter CD on all spells including their AoE. They're also using the focused shield glyph which is very good for single target, but if they're struggling picking up adds, having it hit two more targets will help that out a lot especially since it pops back off CD almost instantly when tanking multiple mobs.

    Their gems are also odd... Some parry gems in there that could easily be swapped out for haste/exp, or a pure of either of those... Not sure if they need the gems with stam on them, guess it depends on if you run 10 or 25

    It's my understanding from reading the guide that mastery is better at keeping damage intake smooth, but haste also does well too ?
    To clear this up for you... Mastery increases the amount of damage reduction on shield of the righteous, and also increases your passive block. Haste increases the rate at which you generate holy power, gives you more dps, and gives you more healing.

    that's really all I can see on their armory, someone else might see something I missed. Hope it helps.

  5. #1505
    Titan MerinPally's Avatar
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    Are you doing 10mans or 25mans? It makes a bit of a difference. If he's having threat issues then he should up his expertise as that will help. His weapon enchant is also potentially wrong.
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nicus/advanced
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  6. #1506
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    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    Are you doing 10mans or 25mans? It makes a bit of a difference. If he's having threat issues then he should up his expertise as that will help. His weapon enchant is also potentially wrong.
    In all actuality, going mastery for this tier even in 10-man isn't a bad idea. There are very few DPS checks, and unless you're phenomenal at predicting your HoPo generation a bit ahead in almost all situations (which can be tricky on heroic progress with how much shit is going on in these fights) you will take more damage, and spikier at that.

    Sometimes the impression i get from the current protadin crowd is that haste > everything by a mile. And yes, i know Firefly has stated that's not the case, but i've also found myself suggesting tanks that maybe shouldn't go all out haste to go all out haste. Simply because i find it enjoyable and effective.
    Mastery is equally viable, and probably even more so on this tiers fights.

    I've seen tons of logs of paladins who are going for haste even at a higher raiding level, who can barely keep their sacred shield uptime above 30%.
    If you're not absolutely sure what you're doing to maximize your survivability with a haste build, you might want to try out mastery. (this also applies if you're playing with higher latency than normal).
    That said, whichever strategy you go with, make sure to cap that hit and expertise.

  7. #1507
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by wontonheroe View Post
    Hey guys
    Well first of, in my raid group we have been having the opposite problem. Usually on boss fights with tanks swaps I have to turn of my righteous fury for the first 1-3 tank swaps. Another tactic we used is rotating hand of salvations on me between me and the paladin healer and going to the other tank

    "Okay, You are gonna lose aggro in 4,3,2,1..."

    And I have raided with multiple tanks from different specs, so the issue is not in paladin threat.

    Though, if you are running 10 your paladin is quite poorly itemized

    1. He got to many dodge and parry pieces. That is basically 6500 rating wasted, after reforging.
    2. He is not even close to expertise cap. I am the first one to say that expertise cap is not even remotely as mandatory as most guides and paladin tanks make it out to be. However, if he is having threat issues, than getting more expertise is a start.
    3. His haste is insanely low. Ofc this will lead to poor threat. He has chosen to priortise mastery. That is fine if he is in 25 man or 10 man and he is an exceptional tank. Haste is generally better, but in some raid groups and for some tanks, mastery works out better
    It ofc come with the drawback of lower threat and lower dps.


    The best he could do is really try to get more gear itemized for his spec. What is he using his bonus rolls on? Does he know he can respec to retri before rolling to get proper tanking gear?

    After that he should practice on his rotation and get to know it by heart, and you will see that aggro is an non-issue.

    Edit: As Merin said. Dat weapon enchant.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-17 at 01:37 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Tossy View Post
    I've seen tons of logs of paladins who are going for haste even at a higher raiding level, who can barely keep their sacred shield uptime above 30%.
    If you're not absolutely sure what you're doing to maximize your survivability with a haste build, you might want to try out mastery. (this also applies if you're playing with higher latency than normal). .
    I often opt to not keep 100% uptime on sacred shield intentionally. It all depends from fight to fight. My usual uptime is between 70-100%. I do not feel like sacred shield is a mandatory thing to keep up at all times. Especially when you have low vengeance (as a result, the damage you are taking are also very low). Reapply it again like 10-15 seconds into taking high damage, as the vengeance will have gone up = bigger shields. I often (re)apply it right before I know I am going to take shitton of damage. Then I reapply is again before I know I will take low damage again (because I have high vengeance at this point). Yeah, 30% is terrible, but having 100% on every single boss fight is in my opinion a tell of a paladin that is not entirely sure what he is doing either. That is a paladin that knows what he is doing, not why. Therefor playing like a robot blindly following what he has read is the best. "The guide said to always reapply sacred shield!"


    That said, whichever strategy you go with, make sure to cap that hit and expertise.
    Well, I am the first to say, suprising that I go against the norm huh?, that capping hit and expertise is not mandatory. I would still like to see more expertise, especially in this tier, could have understood in 463 gear, than this paladin had. Though the caps are by no means a must have. God, I need to take time later to write a full length thread about hit/exp and stuff. Just been too busy with work atm.

    Sometimes the impression i get from the current protadin crowd is that haste > everything by a mile. And yes, i know Firefly has stated that's not the case, but i've also found myself suggesting tanks that maybe shouldn't go all out haste to go all out haste. Simply because i find it enjoyable and effective.
    Mastery is equally viable, and probably even more so on this tiers fights.

    In all actuality, going mastery for this tier even in 10-man isn't a bad idea. There are very few DPS checks, and unless you're phenomenal at predicting your HoPo generation a bit ahead in almost all situations (which can be tricky on heroic progress with how much shit is going on in these fights) you will take more damage, and spikier at that.
    While there are no dps checks directly, all additional damage always help. Beating the enrage by 2 minutes or 3 minutes is a huge difference. Killing a boss faster makes it extremely easy. Not to mention that on a fight like Maegare it can be the difference between getting 2 or 3 breaths on a head.

    But yeah, mastery is extremely viable, more so for 25 man tanks, but also for 10 man tanks. It will provide more survivability than haste, always have, always will. I would like to say the opposite of what you said though. If you are not that good at preidcting your HoPo generation, then haste is better. A good mastery build requires more HoPo prediction, which is all quite logical as you regenrate HoPo slower, and your shields absorb more making them more important. Haste stacking is better for the tank that is not that comfortable with SotR and how to proprely predict when to use it and when to bank up HoPo.

  8. #1508
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tossy View Post
    In all actuality, going mastery for this tier even in 10-man isn't a bad idea. There are very few DPS checks, and unless you're phenomenal at predicting your HoPo generation a bit ahead in almost all situations (which can be tricky on heroic progress with how much shit is going on in these fights) you will take more damage, and spikier at that.
    I know, I was doing it on a more of if he's doing 25mans and having threat issues then I don't know what to say but if it's 10mans, the extra damage he'll do will help threat, if he goes haste With regards to there not being dps checks, that I wasn't aware of because I can't play for a week yet still but every little helps - but yeah, I didn't dismiss mastery as being wrong so don't worry
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nicus/advanced
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  9. #1509
    TL;DFirefly:
    His biggest problem will be his weapon and his expertise, that along with Prot pallies being incredibly vengeance dependant for their threat

  10. #1510
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Yeah, 30% is terrible, but having 100% on every single boss fight is in my opinion a tell of a paladin that is not entirely sure what he is doing either. That is a paladin that knows what he is doing, not why. Therefor playing like a robot blindly following what he has read is the best. "The guide said to always reapply sacred shield!"
    Absolutely, it has to qualify under effective uptime which is always what you want to look at, and in that sense 100% is hardly ever a realistic number.

    Well, I am the first to say, suprising that I go against the norm huh?, that capping hit and expertise is not mandatory. I would still like to see more expertise, especially in this tier, could have understood in 463 gear, than this paladin had. Though the caps are by no means a must have. God, I need to take time later to write a full length thread about hit/exp and stuff. Just been too busy with work atm.
    Well, obviously there is going to be varying opinions, but no matter how you look at it; until or exactly at cap, hit and expertise's contribution to our DPS is always the highest. Where haste contributes more at higher vengenace levels (most seen in 25-man to be honest) where strength and AP and crit naturally lag behind the moment we get hit by something. That said, if you are going for a mastery build in 10-man, which i was throwing out there as a viable option in case someone thought otherwise, to ensure your DPS doesn't drop massively at higher vengeance, while still guaranteeing steady and controlled HoPo generation, you will want to cap those stats. It's not even like you have to give up a lot of mastery and/or haste anymore in order to do so. There's very little sacrifice for a massive return in my opinion.

    While there are no dps checks directly, all additional damage always help. Beating the enrage by 2 minutes or 3 minutes is a huge difference. Killing a boss faster makes it extremely easy. Not to mention that on a fight like Maegare it can be the difference between getting 2 or 3 breaths on a head
    .

    This can't be emphasized enough. If your survivability does not suffer, this is a perk that comes with haste that's hard to deny. Still, as with everything else you will have to look at the specific situation you're in. There's still no right or wrong answer, but there are arguments to be made for both, only that this one is a very strong one in haste's favor. Worth mentioning however is that, though the consensus seems to be 10-man tanks see more benefit from haste than 25-man tanks due to less DPS in the raid, the actual DPS gain from haste when we talk purely scaling is a lot lower for 10-man tanks because of how absurdly it shoots up past say, the 120k-150k vengeance mark.

    I would like to say the opposite of what you said though. If you are not that good at preidcting your HoPo generation, then haste is better.
    Sure, although you will be more vulnerable the times you misstime or misread a situation. However, i will shamefully admit i do not know the raw numbers for the mitigation the passive block from mastery provides off the top of my head. *hangs head*

  11. #1511
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xs View Post
    TL;DFirefly:
    His biggest problem will be his weapon and his expertise, that along with Prot pallies being incredibly vengeance dependant for their threat
    The weapon does not make the big of a difference.

    I have been using this item
    Cookie's Tenderizer
    to tank raid bosses a lot for the lulz. Yes, the normal version, not heroic.

    Which weapon a prot paladin use really does not matter. It is only a stat-stick.

    His weapon enchant was more like a "god why?" though. Why waste extra gold for a really horrible weapon enchant. He could atleast have bought dancing steel if he was gonna spend big money.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-17 at 02:48 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Tossy View Post
    This can't be emphasized enough. If your survivability does not suffer, this is a perk that comes with haste that's hard to deny. Still, as with everything else you will have to look at the specific situation you're in. There's still no right or wrong answer, but there are arguments to be made for both, only that this one is a very strong one in haste's favor. Worth mentioning however is that, though the consensus seems to be 10-man tanks see more benefit from haste than 25-man tanks due to less DPS in the raid, the actual DPS gain from haste when we talk purely scaling is a lot lower for 10-man tanks because of how absurdly it shoots up past say, the 120k-150k vengeance mark.
    There is no general arguments to be made, however in each specific scenario, there is a right or wrong. Does not have to be the same right or wrong as someone else, but given enough information, there is always a right or wrong.

    While yes, haste scale better in 25 man, naturally with more vengeance, the raid dps still increases more than the tanks dps does, and the value of mastery is increased insanely in 25 man, which is the bigger reason that mastery is a common go-to stat in 25 man. Not so much that haste is not valuable, rather than mastery being extremely valuable

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-17 at 02:54 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Tossy View Post
    It's not even like you have to give up a lot of mastery and/or haste anymore in order to do so. There's very little sacrifice for a massive return in my opinion.
    Well, that can be argued.

    Say you are a mastery stacking tank, I dunno, you got 55% damage reduction on SotR or something. The rating it takes from going just from soft cap to hard cap expertise is over 4% damage reduction on SotR.

    That would decrease the damage you take during SotR by almost 10%. That is a non negliable amount.

    If the fight you are on has predictable damage spikes, like tortos or horridon, I would really prefer the mastery over the expertise. On a fight with more steady damage like council, I would probably prefer the expertise.

    Though it all boils down to player choice and it is not as easy as you think. The more mastery you have, the more valuable it is in my opinion to skip the hard cap expertise.

    Myself I am sitting around 12 expertise +-1.
    Last edited by mmoc4d8e5d065a; 2013-03-17 at 01:51 PM.

  12. #1512
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    Hmm I am honestly curious.
    What do you think about the 2pc bonus on Tier 15 and how do you think it's going to impact us for the rest of the tier?

  13. #1513
    Okay to clarify, we are doing 10s.

    And what seems to be the consensus he has too much value in dodge/parry and should be getting a bit more haste but not at the expense, obviously of hit/exp. Is there a haste point he should be going for roughly?

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/guilds/112678/

    Here is a link to our logs. I checked a few various fights and his uptime on SS is between 30-50%, so thats obviously a note to discuss.

    And btw, the weapon enchant is colossus hands down ?

    Thanks again..

  14. #1514
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    Weapon enchant - A lot of dispute here, just, river song is not even an option.
    Colossus
    Windsong
    Dancing Steel

    Those are the 3 main options. I personally used to prefer Dancing Steel in T14 due to some fights having low vengeance levels, however I believe I may opt into Windsong as I get into heroics this tier. I do not value Colossus as high as others do, which he chose is up to him. No correct answer here, valid points to use any enchant.

    The value of dodge and parry is close to 0. It is by far his worst stats, then consider that he has a majority of his secondary stat points into his worst stats, that should tell you that he is maybe not using the optimal items for his spec. He is already doing correct in reforging away from dodge and parry. The problem is that he has too much of it on his gear already. Basically, he is like a healer with 5000 hit rating.

    What you should do about his SS uptime. Go into your logs, and check his uptime during the time that he takes the most damage. Just set the graph to each individual zone where he is taking a shit ton of damage, and then see if he has SS up 100% then. His uptime for an entire fight is not relevant, the uptime when he is actually taking a lot of damage is.

    If he choose to go for mastery or haste is his own chosing, more haste would help him with aggro. Same with more expertise.

    I would suggest him to try to get atleast 11-12 expertise. He gould go for the full 15 if he wants to. And then just chose if he want to stack haste or mastery, and then just stack that stat.

    There is no real hardcore breakpoints for haste. There are some minor ones, but the first major one come at 50% melee haste (remember that the melee haste buff does not give melee haste, so it has to be 50% haste from stats), which is not really achieveable currently. Same goes for the mastery cap, which is at I believe (do not take my word for it), 21000 rating, or was it 24000 rating, can't remember. Either way, more rating than he can get.

    So just dump all remaining points after he gets he comfortable amount of expertise (if that is cap or soft cap or somewhere in between is up to him).

    As said, the problem is not really his reforging, as much as his gear choices. He got 8500 parry/dodge rating. That is 8500 rating that could be into something else. He needs to get more gear with only hit/exp/mastery/haste on it.

  15. #1515
    Titan MerinPally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wontonheroe View Post
    Okay to clarify, we are doing 10s.

    And what seems to be the consensus he has too much value in dodge/parry and should be getting a bit more haste but not at the expense, obviously of hit/exp. Is there a haste point he should be going for roughly?

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/guilds/112678/

    Here is a link to our logs. I checked a few various fights and his uptime on SS is between 30-50%, so thats obviously a note to discuss.

    And btw, the weapon enchant is colossus hands down ?

    Thanks again..
    He should be going for as much haste as possible and not any form of parry/dodge through gems. Those Fine Vermillion Onyx need to go, especially when there is such a thing as a 160haste/160mastery gem for a red socket, if the gem bonus is worth it. He needs to up his expertise, myself and others would say to 15% but some say a couple of % lower but definitely no lower than about 12%. And yes, he should get Colossus - however, having heard that tank damage isn't too bad this tier, if his survival is ok but needs a bit of threat and maybe some more damage then Dancing Steel would be good - relying on a proc for threat is obviously not a good idea but hey he could get lucky. Rivers Song is definitely not the way to go about it.

    The reason that mastery isn't necessarily isn't bad is because it'll reduce damage you take - as will haste - but haste grants you more damage which in 10mans can be very important. Honestly having a look at his logs, I was doing more damage in my 475 gear 3 months ago with haste, than he is in his in his higher gear last week.

    Edit - Firefly beat me to it because he is a better paladin.. And he can type like a motherfucker because I was making a cup of tea

    If you want to tl;dr, both mine and his posts say the same thing so either will do.
    Last edited by MerinPally; 2013-03-17 at 04:03 PM.
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  16. #1516
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunflora View Post
    Hmm I am honestly curious.
    What do you think about the 2pc bonus on Tier 15 and how do you think it's going to impact us for the rest of the tier?
    Situational at best. Not really that strong. Nice to have but not really necessary. There is not going to be a fight where you are gonna think
    "Damn, if I only had my 2p..."

    I probably won't even get it to be honest. Maybe very very late in the tier. Not a fan at all of it.

  17. #1517
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Situational at best. Not really that strong. Nice to have but not really necessary. There is not going to be a fight where you are gonna think
    "Damn, if I only had my 2p..."

    I probably won't even get it to be honest. Maybe very very late in the tier. Not a fan at all of it.
    No point even discussing the 4pc, especially in 10mans from what I've heard so far about damage taken. Maybe in some 25man heroics situationally but... losing all that haste... It comes down to whether or not the haste lost would create more HP than the set bonus. Not sure anyone even bothered to do the maths because even from the look of it, it was disinteresting and undesirable.

    Seriously I want the setbonuses back where our CS/SHOTR would do more damage
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nicus/advanced
    Quote Originally Posted by goblinpaladin View Post
    Also a vegetable is a person.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    I dont care if they [gays] are allowed to donate [blood], but I think we should have an option to refuse gay blood if we need to receive blood.

  18. #1518
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Situational at best. Not really that strong. Nice to have but not really necessary. There is not going to be a fight where you are gonna think
    "Damn, if I only had my 2p..."

    I probably won't even get it to be honest. Maybe very very late in the tier. Not a fan at all of it.
    I think the helmet and shoulders have decent stats so you might as well get the 2set bonus. The retribution chest is awesome, the third (I think) boss drops pants with haste and a metric ton of expertise otherwise there are the pants from Horridon with haste+mastery, there are gloves with hit+haste a couple of bosses in, too.

    50% melee haste is 21250 haste rating.

  19. #1519
    Quote Originally Posted by wontonheroe View Post
    Hey guys,

    I used to have a prot/holydin back in cata, but have since swapped over to brewmaster. Once I caught up in ilvl to whoever my co tank was (have had both dk & prot pally, there has always been an issue of threat on tank swap fights. We try to abusing hand of salv and bop when possible but a good keg smash crit and its back to me. My current co tank is a prot pally and he struggles mightily once that salv has run out.

    here's his armory - http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Jaini/advanced

    I think his stat priority is a bit muddled at best. He sometimes swaps between mastery/stam trinkets depending on the fight but I hear from the healers that they'd rather be healing me than him. It's my understanding from reading the guide that mastery is better at keeping damage intake smooth, but haste also does well too ?

    We've only gotten a few bosses in so far, on ToT and he doesn't have as much XP raiding in general as I do. He struggles in general to grab AOE threat on mobs, so despite him being the better choice for bat tanking, I'll probably have to do it until he's able to figure it out.

    I guess what I'm asking for is, what should he be going for? Is he doing okay on his stat reforges/gems?

    Thanks in advance.
    looking at logs he just doesn't use his abilities a lot. 24 judgments over a 4:30 fight is about half of what he should have been able to get off, same with crusader strike. for another example about how little he uses his abilities: horridon was 10:30 and he only used 6 more crusader strikes and 10 more hammers. His ability usage is absolutely miserable.

    his gear/expertise aren't the issue. You said he was just inexperienced and I'm just guessing he's way overwhelmed in this raiding environment, there's a lot of shit to do this tier as a tank and too much for him to focus on at once.

    Seriously, his main issue is his not hitting his buttons, regardless of his stat choices.

  20. #1520
    Deleted
    I litteraly facepalmed at thecks latest blog post ^^

    I simply cannot find words.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-17 at 05:54 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    No point even discussing the 4pc, especially in 10mans from what I've heard so far about damage taken. Maybe in some 25man heroics situationally but... losing all that haste... It comes down to whether or not the haste lost would create more HP than the set bonus. Not sure anyone even bothered to do the maths because even from the look of it, it was disinteresting and undesirable.

    Seriously I want the setbonuses back where our CS/SHOTR would do more damage
    Anyone opting for 4p should have been wearing PvP retri 4p last tier.

    Everytime I hear someone talk positively about the prot 4p I just shake my head and think that they probably did not use last tiers pvp set. Which was basically the same thing, only 100x better.

    You are trading stats for HoPo regeneration.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-17 at 05:56 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    I think the helmet and shoulders have decent stats so you might as well get the 2set bonus. The retribution chest is awesome, the third (I think) boss drops pants with haste and a metric ton of expertise otherwise there are the pants from Horridon with haste+mastery, there are gloves with hit+haste a couple of bosses in, too.
    Yeah, the thing is, the 2p is not strong enough for me to take tier pieces from someone else.
    I gotta be "lucky" enough that nobody else in the conqueror mark need the helmet and shoulder, only then, and that is a big only, would I consider it. Still would rather have, say, heroic off piece than a normal tier piece.

    Basically, if I get 2p, I get it, not gonna aim for it. If I get higher ilvl off piece than I will probably prefer that over the 2p for most fights

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-17 at 06:08 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by youlowgee View Post
    about WoL
    @Wontonheroe

    Like this guy said, his ability usage is very low.
    I compared your horridon log to mine.

    Now, your kill time is 1 minute longer than ours, but I got a lot more haste. So it almost balance out. I should have gotten a few more spells than him. ( By a few I expect about 20-30 more Judgements because I use SW and 5-15 more of the other spells

    Spell --- Me --- Him

    Judgement --- 125 --- 62
    CS+HotR --- 136 --- 59
    Holy Wrath --- 67 --- 31
    Consecration ticks --- 753 --- 255
    LvL90 abilities used --- 9 --- 5
    AS --- 49 --- 39 I figure that he had it unglyphed to hit 1-3 targets and mine was glyphed to only hit 1 target.

    Basically, yes, I have more haste, but the difference in spells used is HUGE, considering that our fight was only 9 minutes 30 and yours was 10:55

    He needs to learn his rotation better.
    Last edited by mmoc4d8e5d065a; 2013-03-17 at 05:08 PM.

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