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  1. #1

    Empowered Seals VS Seraphim VS Final Verdict Highmaul

    Hey Guys,

    As highmaul dropped and we progressed as a guild I have noticed that most of the time Final Verdict is the way to go for the Storm Buff and Being on top of meters, although there is one fight that is kicking my a** at that is Heroic Butcher. As I burst im bursting a good 30-35k dps easy at the start of the fight but as it goes on I drop to about 15k dps with the FV talent and Rotation.

    I tried Seraphim and when used with cool downs and BL, Bursting DPS was around 40-45k But it wasnt a steady good number although it was about 2k more then the final verdict rotation. 17kdps

    For the last pulls I decided to try out Empowered Seals and Holy S*it Boys Burst was awesome and Damage was 18-20k on the boss.

    Here is my issue I do not know which talent is better to use all the time? Is it FV? SP? Or ES?

    I need some advice from some really dope paladins.

    Also Is there some macros for the empowered seals? I find it annoying that I have to constantly switch between seals to keep the buff and I feel like I do miss some GCDS and Rotation Aswell as DPS by using the seals the wrong way or prioritizing to much on the seals.

    If someone could give me advice that would be awesome.

    Thanks!

  2. #2
    Keyboard Turner Myspeld's Avatar
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    It's already been confirmed Divine Purpose + Final Verdict was outputting the most DPS.

  3. #3
    I use ES on almost every encounter. I can pull around 24k single dps with my 636ilvl gear with the 4set pvp bonus (9% flat dmg buff). SW + ES would be the best single target spec and DP(or HA for burst) + FV would be for aoe. just make a macro for /cast seal of truth /cast seal of righteousness and try to get the swap on downtime/running phase and when other seal has under 6sec left, but always prio to keep up the buffs. My opening strategy i came up with(idk if its the best but cant figure out a better opener) [start with SEAL OF RIGHTEOUSNESS] Judgement(1hp)-execution sentence-SEAL OF TRUTH-crusaderstrike(2hp)-exorsism(3hp)-judgement[this time with the truth buff now you have both up]-wings+hammer of wrath macro(wings are not on gcd)(5hp)-templars veridict-hammer of wrath(3hp)-judgement(4hp)-hammer of wrath(5hp)-templars veridict-hammer of wrath(3hp)-SEAL OF RIGHTEOUSNESS-hammer of wrath(4hp)-templars veridict-hammer of wrath(2hp)-judgement and from now on it should be self explanatory. I'm not sure if i typed that right but would give a good understanding on how to use the empowered seals talent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Myspeld View Post
    It's already been confirmed Divine Purpose + Final Verdict was outputting the most DPS.
    is that the best dps for aoe or single? i cant pull out more dps with any other talent comp for my gear than SW+ES

  4. #4
    Personaly, i have used AW+Seraphim on monotarget encounter, i think it's the best. Bursting DPS was around 100k \o/

    DP + FV : Tectus & Twins (32k & 27k)
    AW + FV : Ko'ragh (29k)
    AW + Seraphim : Kargath, Butcher, Brackenspore, Mar'gok (28k, 29k, 27k, Mar'gok soon)

  5. #5
    I really like seraphim+holyavenger on pvp but i dont really enjoy the burst then 0 dps for pve. Theise 3 talents are really balanced so depending on your gear ( like haste is useless for ES spec you get 15% and ista capped on haste with having 0 personal haste). Id say to test those combinations for 75/100 talents and see wich one is best with your gear for whatever situation. for my mastery/multistrike stacking gear ES wins on every situation with less than 3 mobs.

  6. #6
    It's already been confirmed Divine Purpose + Final Verdict was outputting the most DPS.

    To my knowledge this statement is true when we get tier, not before.

  7. #7
    The Patient
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    Sooo what is it then?

  8. #8
    As someone has marked already -
    DP + TV and just pray to the RNG Gods
    I am a menace to my own destiny.


    just roll a warrior. instead of crying about the imbalance - be the imbalance.

  9. #9
    Depends on the fight. On single target EmpSeals+SW is the best but on cleave/AOE heavy encounters fights you'll want to use Final Verdict+DP.

    Here's what I've been doing so far in Normal and Heroic:

    Kargath: SW, ES, EmpS
    Butcher: SW, ES, EmpS
    Tectus: SW, ES, EmpS (most of the fight is single target, but if your raid stacks them after first split then use FV instead)
    Brackenspore: SW, LH*, FV
    Twins: SW, LH*, FV
    Ko'ragh: SW, ES, EmpS
    Imperator: SW, ES, EmpS (the important parts of the fight are all single target)

    I use Execution Sentence over Light's Hammer most of the time because there's too much risk in having targets move out of LH. I only use LH on low-movement fights like Brackenspore and maybe Twins.
    I use SW on every fight. I don't think there are reliably enough targets to warrant using DP on Twins and SW works really well with the 30% haste buff from mushrooms on Tectus.

    Would love to hear what other heroic/mythic Ret Paladins are using!

  10. #10
    Currently. I run with HA+FV for most fights. Some fights i'll switch to DP for add heavy encounters.. but more or less that on demand control over your burst is just to good for me to pass up. One thing I'd like to know though is when do you burn your boosted DS during AoE? Tectus for instance final stage would it be a dps loss to use FV>DS>FV>DS rotation or fish for Empowered procs?

  11. #11
    Keyboard Turner
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonicsargeras View Post
    Kargath: SW, ES, EmpS
    Butcher: SW, ES, EmpS
    Tectus: SW, ES, EmpS (most of the fight is single target, but if your raid stacks them after first split then use FV instead)
    Brackenspore: SW, LH*, FV
    Twins: SW, LH*, FV
    Ko'ragh: SW, ES, EmpS
    Imperator: SW, ES, EmpS (the important parts of the fight are all single target)

    Would love to hear what other heroic/mythic Ret Paladins are using!
    I cleared heroic and normal aswell and your talent choices are the same as mine. Since i fell in love with Emp Seals i am using it on every single target encounter. With EmpS, imo, it feels more refreshing to play the class.
    Sadly its weaker in aoe phases

  12. #12
    Personally, I play for fun and Divine Prupose + FV is the most fun.

    PvP is my thing, but i will do a lil LFR no doubt and I plan to run DP + FV.

    p.s. In arena I run Holy Avenger + FV
    My WoD Beta Ret lvl 100 pvp videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/Spinalc0rd

    More content to come, Like, Comment, Subscribe, Retweet, Instagram, Facebook lool i kid, i kid

  13. #13
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    Personally I refuse to use Emp Seals because to hell with stance dancing/seal twisting.
    NOBLESHIELD
    <Meliora> of Turalyon-US
    Raids & Dungeons Moderator | Mod Voice


  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    Personally I refuse to use Emp Seals because to hell with stance dancing/seal twisting.
    I find empowered seals gameplay fun. Retri spec is too simple without it + it gives me much better numbers than the 2 other talents(around 2k dps increase on 1 target mastery/multisrike build)

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by seiski View Post
    I find empowered seals gameplay fun. Retri spec is too simple without it + it gives me much better numbers than the 2 other talents(around 2k dps increase on 1 target mastery/multisrike build)
    You shouldn't see that much of a disparity between them, especially empseals and seraphim. But of course if you are new to a talent or not tracking buffs etc, you might see a different that big.

  16. #16
    I thought it was Seraphim with Sanctified Wrath until you get t17 gear then it changes to Final Verdict and Divine Purpose.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Incandescence View Post
    You shouldn't see that much of a disparity between them, especially empseals and seraphim. But of course if you are new to a talent or not tracking buffs etc, you might see a different that big.
    There is little to none difficulty for atleast fv and it underperforms by miles compared to es. Might be because my haste is incredibly low and with es i have 0 downtime because of the 15% haste and with seraphim/fv my haste is not enough for 100% gcd usage. Mastery and multistrike works really well with empowered seals. I want to be competive with my dps on my guild so I will roll with the talent whats best for my current gear(now its es based on tons of testing with my own gear, and I like the gameplay of ES the most)

    edit:holy avenger+seraphim is my way to go on pvp. Insane hammer of wrath crit+multisrike+mastery hits

  18. #18
    High Overlord
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    I would think it really depends on the type of DPS you wish to output. Although my ret hasn't hit 100 yet, I have been playing for a good few years, and can offer some viable opinion. A true dream of mine has been to see ret go back to the sustained dps spec it was a few years prior. I hate having my entire dps rely on a "bursting cannon" concept, because more often than not, I find my burst tirades either interrupted due to poor timing or boss mechanics fucking with me.

    I would love to start the DP + FV rotation on longer boss fights were sustained dps is more key. I can see Seraphim and Holy Avenger really coming in on fights were short but sudden burst is needed to down an add. As for ES, I don't quite know what T75 talent I'd pair it up with, but it seems to also be more of a sustained dps talent.

    I too agree with the possibility of the DP + FV value increasing with tier, as DP = more FV's and thusly more HP spendage, increasing the worth of the 2-piece bonus. As for the 4-piece bonus, it increases the rapidity of your HP generation, almost downplaying DP's effectiveness, but not that of FV (in fact, FV would become more favorable).

    So that's my insight, take it as you will.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Myspeld View Post
    It's already been confirmed Divine Purpose + Final Verdict was outputting the most DPS.
    Do you have some information on this? I'm not saying you are wrong at all, just that I can't recall seeing it. I've been going with HA + FV since DP was usually too random in the past to make a difference. So I was still going with Wings + HA + FV, but might try DP + FV if it's edging out more.

    Though honestly I wish Empowered Seals was a bit better as I was looking forward to seal swapping.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    Do you have some information on this? I'm not saying you are wrong at all, just that I can't recall seeing it. I've been going with HA + FV since DP was usually too random in the past to make a difference. So I was still going with Wings + HA + FV, but might try DP + FV if it's edging out more.

    Though honestly I wish Empowered Seals was a bit better as I was looking forward to seal swapping.
    According to the sims in the Theorycrafting thread DP + FV pulls ahead in T17, but everyone's just been parroting that it's the best right now because what they saw in that thread.

    Honestly I can see FV pulling ahead of the other two, but I don't see DP beating out the other two on all encounters.

    EmpS & Seph are pretty close in Highmaul right now.

    First week I used EmpS, and if played correctly does very well. The only drawback is that it is easy to screw up if you aren't tracking your buffs properly.

    This week I gave Seph a go though, and have been having fun with the absolutely insane burst. My ilvl was 638, and with lust I could open for 85k. Super fun but get's tedious outside of CDs.

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