1. #901
    Yeah I was a bit disheartened when I saw that, as it was in reply to my quote/suggestion. But, I've been posting there diligently and some very interesting topics have come up.

    Really, I wholeheartedly support the idea of leaving haste as is, but giving D/P a coefficient that also provides haste. That way, we can increase TDR without the direct cost to our smoothing.

    Also, really like the counterpoint of just getting rid of tank gear (AND HOLY PLATE) to clear up the loot table, much like there is no "tank leather", and just having haste and/or crit help with avoidance and mitigation.

    But, I don't see either of those things happening
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  2. #902
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Yeah I was a bit disheartened when I saw that, as it was in reply to my quote/suggestion. But, I've been posting there diligently and some very interesting topics have come up.

    Really, I wholeheartedly support the idea of leaving haste as is, but giving D/P a coefficient that also provides haste. That way, we can increase TDR without the direct cost to our smoothing.

    Also, really like the counterpoint of just getting rid of tank gear (AND HOLY PLATE) to clear up the loot table, much like there is no "tank leather", and just having haste and/or crit help with avoidance and mitigation.

    But, I don't see either of those things happening
    GC main gripe seems to be tanks competing with dps for gear.....in my mind getting rid of "tank" gear seems the most sensible option to me - there is no real need for it to be in the game. Im sure a quick rework of warrior and death knight tanking getting benefit from haste cant be that hard (id just get it to reduce their GCD same as us - easy fix!)

    The whole dodge/parry/miss debacle really goes against blizzard's active mitigation thang anyhoo - it's its antithesis imo.

    EDIT: oh before i forget the hit/exp kneck can drop for us on a gold coin on protectors, yes?
    Last edited by mmocf6305105ff; 2013-01-24 at 10:55 PM.

  3. #903
    Quote Originally Posted by rawhammer View Post
    EDIT: oh before i forget the hit/exp kneck can drop for us on a gold coin on protectors, yes?
    Correct me if I'm wrong but... go to Dungeon Journal. Select Protectors. Select Protection. Those are the things you can get from coin - no?

  4. #904
    Deleted
    I HAVE FINALLY FUCKING REPLACED OOK'S HOZEN SLICER. FUCK YOU OOK'S HOZEN SLICER. I DOOK YOUR OOK.
    Righteousness, shit like that.

  5. #905
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    Quote Originally Posted by rawhammer View Post
    GC main gripe seems to be tanks competing with dps for gear.....in my mind getting rid of "tank" gear seems the most sensible option to me - there is no real need for it to be in the game. Im sure a quick rework of warrior and death knight tanking getting benefit from haste cant be that hard (id just get it to reduce their GCD same as us - easy fix!)

    The whole dodge/parry/miss debacle really goes against blizzard's active mitigation thang anyhoo - it's its antithesis imo.

    EDIT: oh before i forget the hit/exp kneck can drop for us on a gold coin on protectors, yes?
    I wouldn't mind a complete removal of 'tank' gear. That likely won't happen in a current expansion though.

  6. #906
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    My thread got moved to PTR general, where no one will see it. /:

    And the EU one got moved to the paladin subforum. Urghghg.
    Last edited by Xothic; 2013-01-25 at 02:45 AM.
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  7. #907
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    I enjoy how my drunken rants ending with various paladin-y words, has become a common thing emulated by others.
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nicus/advanced
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    Also a vegetable is a person.
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    I dont care if they [gays] are allowed to donate [blood], but I think we should have an option to refuse gay blood if we need to receive blood.

  8. #908
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helai View Post
    I HAVE FINALLY FUCKING REPLACED OOK'S HOZEN SLICER. FUCK YOU OOK'S HOZEN SLICER. I DOOK YOUR OOK.
    Righteousness, shit like that.
    I spent more time looking for Ook's Hozen Slicer than I spent using it... Funny thing that...

    Anyway, thanks for answering my somewhat silly question. (Aimed at those that answered)

  9. #909
    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    I enjoy how my drunken rants ending with various paladin-y words, has become a common thing emulated by others.
    I don't know what you mean.

    Light, Virtue, Hammer, Judgement.

  10. #910
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    So I just found out that Theck is apparently some kind of university mathematics professor. This is somehow not surprising.

    Justice, Crusade, Protection.
    Quote Originally Posted by Asphyxes View Post
    Taco dinner, movie at my mancave then I'll surprise her with a TCG tabard and tell her I love her.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazuli View Post
    my gf left me, should i Just go gay?
    Xothic - Prot Paladin

  11. #911
    Quote Originally Posted by Helai View Post
    I HAVE FINALLY FUCKING REPLACED OOK'S HOZEN SLICER. FUCK YOU OOK'S HOZEN SLICER. I DOOK YOUR OOK.
    Righteousness, shit like that.
    I'll never get away from Waistplate of Imminent Resurrection Tanking heroic 25 bosses, and still running with a 463 belt.

  12. #912
    Titan MerinPally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonland View Post
    I spent more time looking for Ook's Hozen Slicer than I spent using it... Funny thing that...

    Anyway, thanks for answering my somewhat silly question. (Aimed at those that answered)
    Glad someone was of help, at the moment I'm usually intoxicated and will remain so for the forseeable future until lectures begin so am rather limited. Same story with the slicer by the way... and I was only able to play for a month before I had to stop again.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-25 at 05:18 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Xothic View Post
    So I just found out that Theck is apparently some kind of university mathematics professor. This is somehow not surprising.

    Justice, Crusade, Protection.
    Think I remember seeing someone say he has a PhD in physics.

    Holy, Light, Truth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by goblinpaladin View Post
    Also a vegetable is a person.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    I dont care if they [gays] are allowed to donate [blood], but I think we should have an option to refuse gay blood if we need to receive blood.

  13. #913
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    Calling it that http://ptr.wowdb.com/items/94938-5-2...-boss-8-loot-1 would be best in slot were it not for GC's incoming meddling.
    Quote Originally Posted by Asphyxes View Post
    Taco dinner, movie at my mancave then I'll surprise her with a TCG tabard and tell her I love her.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazuli View Post
    my gf left me, should i Just go gay?
    Xothic - Prot Paladin

  14. #914
    Deleted
    I was thinking why they want to change haste for us. Maybe it scale too good and we will reach a point when sacred shield will be absorbing every second or every two seconds...which is OP...for example, now i absorb every 4.2 second(approx.) and at high vengeanse it does make a difference...
    Just disappointed and trying to understand they reasoning.

  15. #915
    Deleted
    I'm getting absolutely wasted tonight. I apologise in advance for any Merin-like rants.

    Holy, Protection, Retribution.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-25 at 10:33 AM ----------

    P.S
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6443225827

    Help with this one too please. A blue read my forum post and moved it to Paladin forum which no one reads.

  16. #916
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by rawhammer View Post
    Healing for 300k but losing 50% damage reduction buff isnt a good trade off imo. I RARELY wog...i rely on my healers to keep me up: keeping a large damage reduction buff on me helps them a ton imo. im guessing a lot of that 300k WoG would be overheal (or make your healers overheal with their incoming heal spam).

    Not sure how relevant next tier set is to current tier boss. Would increasing your block chance against lei Shi be good?

    Still not convinced using 1 HP on wog to get block chance increase would be better over saving that HP for more SotR up time. It may be, just initial thoughts were "meh". Ill wait for Theckster.

    Edit: rereading bonus it's 5 sec buff per HP used, so that improves things a bit. still ill wait and see what the maths dudes think.
    Getting back to the T15 set bonus discussion, I see Theck has run some numbers on sacred duty. Think my initial reaction holds some water. "Meh".

    http://sacredduty.net/
    Last edited by mmocf6305105ff; 2013-01-25 at 03:49 PM.

  17. #917
    Titan MerinPally's Avatar
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    WaRnInG - I'm going on a bar crawl vs Nottingham Trent tonight and there's no way I'm being outdrunk by some poly, so I'll be off my ass again hard tonight. If I make it back and decide to post... yeah.

    Wisdom, Templar, Avenger.
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    Quote Originally Posted by goblinpaladin View Post
    Also a vegetable is a person.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    I dont care if they [gays] are allowed to donate [blood], but I think we should have an option to refuse gay blood if we need to receive blood.

  18. #918
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    Quote Originally Posted by rawhammer View Post
    Getting back to the T15 set bonus discussion, I see Theck has run some numbers on sacred duty. Think my initial reaction holds some water. "Meh".
    Can you linky for those of us too lazy to sift through?

  19. #919
    Deleted
    http://sacredduty.net/2013/01/24/pro...5-set-bonuses/


    Nothing suprising really. Pretty much the same conclusion we all did when they announced the bonuses.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-25 at 09:18 PM ----------

    Faith in ghostcrawler lost.

    Paladin
    - We knew haste would be attractive to Protection when we gave them Sanctity of Battle, which only Retribution had previously. That's why we gave them Sanctity of Battle. Even if you have a tanking set with no haste, there are haste buffs in the game. We wanted all the tanks to benefit somewhat from what were traditionally DPS stats, since part of the active mitigation design was to make tanks care more about hitting things with sword (and claws). It only gets to be a problem, as I said previously, if dodge and parry (which are going to be on some gear) are perceived as pointless. (They aren't pointless, but that's really beside the point at this stage.) We aren't going to reitemize every plate piece in the game to remove dodge and parry. We also don't want to nerf haste for paladins, because it is fun, and for the most part working as intended. We don't have a solution yet that we're willing to share, but that's the intent. I state all this, because I feel like this already long thread has become a bit too dominated by this one topic in the past few pages.


    Questions:

    1. He says he want us to scale with haste buffs even in a tanking set without haste. Ehr, to bad the melee hast buff does not actually give melee haste, only weapon haste, so it does not even give us anything. If you want to buff the melee haste buff to give us melee haste, great! more haste for us!
    Come to think of it, that could actually be a solution. Making the melee buff give melee haste, which would make us reach the 50% soft cap faster, so we would not want haste on every gear, just enough haste to reach the cap.

    2. Dodge and parry - You made them useless by removing them from the combat table. Why did you do this again? Yes, so tanks would not have a boring stack to CTC cap playstyle. So by removing them from the block CTC table, aswell as the insane DR on dodge and parry, he actually made dodge and parry worthless. And yes, dodge and parry is worthless, no argument.

    3. Haste is in a good spot right now, it is stronger than mastery, but not so much stronger that mastery is a "troll" build.
    The problem once again is that dodge and parry is to weak, not that haste is to strong.

    4. Partual part of the problem is the fact that Prot Paladins dps and threat is so horrible in comparison to the other tanks. We need the haste to be on-par with other tanks.

    5. I do not see anything fixing this "issue" without completely reworking the entire dodge/parry system, inserting some passive that reduces our GCD and CDs on spells ( either passive or scaling with some other stat ), a complete rehaul off the damage output of protection paladins. This seems like a lot of work for nothing.

    6. So tired of hearing this whole "tier set" discussion. The protection set is itemized with undesirable stats ( dodge and parry ). Obviously we will think twice before taking it. The real problem is dodge and parry. I feel like they are outdated and should just be removed as stats from the game.

    7. Can't he see how much they succeeded in prot paladins? I have never heard so many prot paladins actually enjoy tanking as currently. Why do they feel the need to break that because they are "competing with gear". That is up to every single raid group to decide who gets gear and not. Also, coins... 80% of my loot come from coins. I really just cant comprehend why they are trying to break something they have actually done good for once.

    8. Since so many fights are 1 tank fights and obviously you have more than 2 tanks in alot of raid groups, it is great being able to gear your MS and retri OS at the same time. So giving a prot paladin a loot it gets double usage, both for retri and prot.

    9. Can't really see the issue still. 1 tank sharing loot with 3 dps specs. Just look at how healers share loot with casters, that should be 100x more issue.

    Sadly I cannot post on US forums, but he is so clueless what he is talking about, it makes me sad he is calling the design shots on my class. If anyone is going to make a post on the US forums, feel free to bring up any of the points I just mentioned.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...5?page=53#1058
    Last edited by mmoc4d8e5d065a; 2013-01-25 at 08:26 PM.

  20. #920
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Faith in ghostcrawler lost.
    Not sure how you're reading that, but he didn't say that in context of removing haste or anything. He merely stated they introduced sanctity because of that. But the post is 50% positive in my eyes, they admit it's fun and dont want to remove it.
    I was expecting something worse. Middle of PTR testing so maybe my focus is lacking, but yeah.

    EDIT: Yeah, you're absolutely right it's sad he doesn't know how haste buffs actually work. But the general feel of the post was better than i was expecting. That's all i wanted to say really.
    Last edited by mmoc2a162f1935; 2013-01-25 at 08:35 PM.

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