1. #1221
    On the topic of Haste vs Mastery vs Stamina (some people still need to worry about the third ), take what works best for you. They are all worth about the same, but do different jobs. The first one increases your ShoR uptime (or rather it reduces the time between ShoRs), judicial use of ShoR at the right moment can make Mastery an awesome stat, and Stamina gives your healers time to heal you between ShoRs. For me as a 25M heroic raider, I'm finding that having that extra buffer is getting more useful than a slight increase in uptime or damage reduction.
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  2. #1222
    Thanks again guys, I havent played my Pally in almost 18 monthes, I've been a Lock lately, so transferred him tonight from Alliance to Horde and dusted off his 85 armor.
    Things are a bit different to last time so I've been using the OP as pretty much a strict guide plus I've taken into account the answers to my questions here.
    The biggest problem I have right now is what to track on TellMeWhen, I'am not sure of what procs, spells, cooldowns, stacks I'am supposed to be watching apart from my holy power.
    On my Lock I have almost a dozen things going that I track, not all buffs I have Raven for that, but I like to know what proc's and for how long as well as how much of something I have so it can now be used.
    So apart from holy power what am I looking for, 18 monthes has been a long time it took awhile tonight to get my rotation set up correctly and I havent really spent any game time playing yet.
    Thank you again for the help and patience.

  3. #1223
    Instead of tellmewhen, you could try weakauras and import the prot pally strings that Theck has posted in his Sacred Duty blog. They show most of what you need to be tracking - like the bastion of glory stacks and weakened blows etc.

    http://sacredduty.net/2012/10/23/tan...strings-5-0-5/

    I don't think we have many procs that we need to watch for - the grand crusader one is very evident from the default UI.
    Last edited by econ21; 2013-02-18 at 01:24 PM.

  4. #1224
    Fluffy Kitten Rivin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judas View Post
    I also use TellmeWhen, great addon, what procs should I be tracking or stacks?
    I personally use TellMeWhen to track:

    Sacred Shield (30-second buff)
    Shield of the Righteous buff
    Bastion of Glory stacks
    Weakened Blows
    Divine Purpose
    ...and one that tells me when Hammer of Wrath is ready, only because it's already there from my Ret spec :U

  5. #1225
    Herald of the Titans Grimord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judas View Post
    Do I use SotR once I have a stack of 3 Holy Power up and do I use HotR at the start of my rotation before Crusader Strike?
    Depends what you're doing and what the setup is. HotR is useful as an opener in single target IF nobody else in your party/raid can apply the melee attack debuff. For instance, an Elemental Shaman will *eventually* apply it when they have enough stacks to Earth Shock so if you open with HotR you'll probably have the debuff last long enough for the Shaman to get his own rolling in and you can just keep using CS.

    About the Holy Power: Depends. On fights where you need to react quickly with WoG/SotR it's always best to let it stack to 5. For instance, while tanking Elegon, I always let it go to 5 before I use SotR, so I can pop a WoG quickly in case his breath gets me low on HP.

    Also do we use any of the Hands, with our focus as a tank I'am thinking thier more of a Ret. Pally thing but again I'am still learning here.
    You use your Hands in all specs. I have mouse-over macros for all of them. Salvation is useful at the start so you can make sure your burstier DPSers don't aggro (my raid's shamans get very close sometimes) which is particularly useful if you have to move the boss, thus reducing your TPS. HoSacrifice can be a life saver in certain fights. You can use it to help mitigate damage from big undispellable dots like Amber Shaper's Parasite or Blade Lord's Wind Step, for instance.

    HoProtection has lots of uses too, specially in Spirit Kings and Blade Lord, as it's the only spell that can dispell Wind Step and Pin Down (or whatever it's called), apart from self-cast-only cooldowns, of course. If you do or intend to ever do Blade Lord HC you can make your life waaaay easier with every Paladin in the raid. During progression I had me plus a Retri, both taking Clemency, so we had 4 'dispells' which we always used to save healer ass during Blade Tempest (sometimes they'd have trouble healing through Wind Step while running away from the Tempest).

    In Wind Lord Meljarak you can also use it, if you have quick reflexes, so save someone that gets targeted by the Blademasters and you're sure will die (someone that's low on Hp or smthn).

    I thought Devotion Aura would cover most of them.
    I'm not entirely sure what you mean. Devotion Aura reduces 20% MAGIC damage and makes targets immune to Silence. Be wary of the range though. It's still a decent cooldown for Garalon's pheromones or Will of the Emperor's Titan Gas.

    And Might over Kings?
    Assuming you don't have anyone else buffing you, I'd always take Might as Prot.

    ****EDIT*****

    HoFreedom is also useful in a couple fights. In Stone Guard you can use it on you or whoever will be breaking Ice Mines during Cobalt petrification. In WoE if your DPSers slack and let a Courage reach a tank you can also use it to avoid getting slowed and mowed down by the dance combo.
    Last edited by Grimord; 2013-02-18 at 05:42 PM.


  6. #1226
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimord View Post
    About the Holy Power: Depends. On fights where you need to react quickly with WoG/SotR it's always best to let it stack to 5. For instance, while tanking Elegon, I always let it go to 5 before I use SotR, so I can pop a WoG quickly in case his breath gets me low on HP.
    Breaths are on a long and fairly easy timer. Wobbling around 5 HoPo for the entire time seems like a bit of an overkill. As it requires more effort to constantly check your HoPo compared to just using SotR whenever you can. I often just bank up and make sure to have 3 for when he actually breaths. Other parts of the fight I do not really bother. You can even cover like half the breaths with DProt.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  7. #1227
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Breaths are on a long and fairly easy timer. Wobbling around 5 HoPo for the entire time seems like a bit of an overkill. As it requires more effort to constantly check your HoPo compared to just using SotR whenever you can. I often just bank up and make sure to have 3 for when he actually breaths. Other parts of the fight I do not really bother. You can even cover like half the breaths with DProt.
    You have to pay attention to your HoP? I don't even need a bar other than for the out of combat decay

  8. #1228
    Fluffy Kitten Rivin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xs View Post
    You have to pay attention to your HoP? I don't even need a bar other than for the out of combat decay
    Well, I guess if you're really good at tracking many things at once in your mind you wouldn't need one, but it's easy to get distracted and lose count and then the bar is there to remind you where you were. :P

  9. #1229
    You guys all switching to hand of purity come 5.2? That 10% damage reduction looks really nice for any boss burst damage. Is it the clear choice now?

  10. #1230
    I certainly won't be taking it in place of Unbreakable Spirit unless fight mechanics dictate it's use/abuse. But, that'ts pretty much par for the course as far as talents go.

    For MOST "traditional" uses, 40% magic OR 20% all dmg reduction for 10 sec on a 35-45sec CD wins out over 10% dmg redux and 60 (70?)% DOT redux for 6 sec on a 30 sec CD.

    I'm sure HoP will have its uses, but I won't be running it over UbS for "baseline" work.
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  11. #1231
    Old God MerinPally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tax View Post
    You guys all switching to hand of purity come 5.2? That 10% damage reduction looks really nice for any boss burst damage. Is it the clear choice now?
    I wasn't going to bother unless I saw some maths for otherwise or there was a DOT heavy fight. 20% uptime of a 10%/10% damage reduction, or about a 20% uptime due to Unbreakable Spirit of a 20%/20% damage reduction or a 40% magic. If tank damage is no issue and the raid needs a regular extra damage reduction CD then maybe but... I didn't see it as tantalising enough. If there's some maths or proof otherwise then let me know as I'm somewhat out of the loop due to university for another month.

    Oh also, consider that Hand of Purity will require a GCD and DP doesn't, so taking UbS gives it the same uptime as HoP but gives you better reduction and doesn't eat a GCD.

  12. #1232
    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    Oh also, consider that Hand of Purity will require a GCD and DP doesn't, so taking UbS gives it the same uptime as HoP but gives you better reduction and doesn't eat a GCD.
    Additionally has the side benefits of shorter LoH/bubble CD's, which can be nice for raid saving or debuff clearing, respectively.

    That said, the ability to target HoPur is nice on some fights this tier, like HC Lei Shi on your stackers. Ironically, UbS is effectively mandatory on that fight as prot. Using a GCD on that sucks, and I believe it is also hard-capped at 1.5sec GCD which REALLY sucks (been a long time since I've used it, so not sure on that one).

    Really hope/wish they'd fix the GCD issue on SS, LH and ES already...
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  13. #1233
    Quote Originally Posted by Tax View Post
    You guys all switching to hand of purity come 5.2? That 10% damage reduction looks really nice for any boss burst damage. Is it the clear choice now?
    Damn it, I'd totally forgotten about that change.
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  14. #1234
    Quote Originally Posted by Xs View Post
    You have to pay attention to your HoP? I don't even need a bar other than for the out of combat decay
    If you are only using SotR when you have 5 HoPo then yes ofc you gotta pay atleast some attention to it. If you use SotR whenever, then you don't.

    Using SotR whenever on cooldown and only banking up when needed ofc requires less maintenence than constantly sitting on 5. Not that I see a reason why you would sit on 5 constantly really on most fights. Can understand doing that on Will of the Emperor and similar fights, though most fights I do not really see any benefit at only using SotR with 5 HoPo.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-18 at 11:17 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Tax View Post
    You guys all switching to hand of purity come 5.2? That 10% damage reduction looks really nice for any boss burst damage. Is it the clear choice now?
    Will as all other talents be situational. Doesn't make HoP a cookie cutter.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  15. #1235
    Quote Originally Posted by Rivin View Post
    Well, I guess if you're really good at tracking many things at once in your mind you wouldn't need one, but it's easy to get distracted and lose count and then the bar is there to remind you where you were. :P
    Don't get me wrong, I still have one, but I don't ever look at it, I mean its not exactly hard to count to 5 then subtract 3, might be just a super power I have from my old Shaman days counting shield charges by damage/mana numbers

    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    If you are only using SotR when you have 5 HoPo then yes ofc you gotta pay atleast some attention to it. If you use SotR whenever, then you don't.

    Using SotR whenever on cooldown and only banking up when needed ofc requires less maintenence than constantly sitting on 5. Not that I see a reason why you would sit on 5 constantly really on most fights. Can understand doing that on Will of the Emperor and similar fights, though most fights I do not really see any benefit at only using SotR with 5 HoPo.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-18 at 11:17 PM ----------



    Will as all other talents be situational. Doesn't make HoP a cookie cutter.
    I vary based on fight, and I have no difficulty just remembering how much HoP I'm at, as I said above its only counting to 5

  16. #1236
    Quote Originally Posted by Xs View Post
    I have no difficulty just remembering how much HoP I'm at, as I said above its only counting to 5
    I don't understand - you don't look at the HP bar. So how do you "remember" your HoP? You surely don't count every time you use a CS, J or GC proc?

    I've set weakauras to give out a sonar ping when I get to 5 holy power (or max resources on any char). I don't like "wasting" holy power.

  17. #1237
    Quote Originally Posted by econ21 View Post
    I don't understand - you don't look at the HP bar. So how do you "remember" your HoP? You surely don't count every time you use a CS, J or GC proc?

    I've set weakauras to give out a sonar ping when I get to 5 holy power (or max resources on any char). I don't like "wasting" holy power.
    My brain registers me using the abilities I care about (ie Judgement/CS/AS /w proc) and automatically puts a HoP counter in my brain, a few times I've messed up my unit frames and not had a HoP bar, not noticed for a good few days worth of raids, only real time I need it as prot is if I'm cutting the AS proc close, but I've also got MSBT showing HP gains so I tend to use that more than my HoP bar

  18. #1238
    I've been burning through 9 challenge mode gold medals in about 2 days in a guild group on my paladin. This. Was. Not. Fun.
    Ok well, it was extremely fun, but protadins in challenge modes; oh my god how annoying it could be at times.
    I just needed to vent, nevermind me!

  19. #1239
    Quote Originally Posted by Teks View Post
    I've been burning through 9 challenge mode gold medals in about 2 days in a guild group on my paladin. This. Was. Not. Fun.
    Ok well, it was extremely fun, but protadins in challenge modes; oh my god how annoying it could be at times.
    I just needed to vent, nevermind me!
    CM gold was the most fun I don't want to have again. We ran Protpal, WW, MW, lock, hunter and while it really wasn't THAT bad, we could only think how much smoother so much would have been with a DK or Warrior tank. Overall, Prot has a pretty good toolset and cooldown bank to pull from, but we do suffer slightly from lack of AOE CC/stuns/kitability.

    Grats on golds though!

    Personally, I'm looking forward to doing it again and tanking on my DK this time around
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  20. #1240
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    CM gold was the most fun I don't want to have again. We ran Protpal, WW, MW, lock, hunter and while it really wasn't THAT bad, we could only think how much smoother so much would have been with a DK or Warrior tank. Overall, Prot has a pretty good toolset and cooldown bank to pull from, but we do suffer slightly from lack of AOE CC/stuns/kitability.

    Grats on golds though!

    Personally, I'm looking forward to doing it again and tanking on my DK this time around

    Get this, we ran with Prot Pala, Disc Priest, Demo Lock, Frost mage and Frost DK.
    Barely any ability to chainstun, and no misdirect or tricks but with crazy AoE burst at least. That was the worst part, trying to control the biggest pulls with the Paladin AoE arsenal. Of course you can make it work if you know how to play, but it was a boatload of effort for something that other classes never have issuses with.
    Ton of fun however, really refreshing now that you're sick and tired of this raid content.
    Last edited by Teks; 2013-02-19 at 08:00 PM.

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