1. #1281
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    I much prefer BW over DBM as a tank, I think the options on what to disable and what to superemphasize (not sure if DBM got similar now, havent used dbm since wrath) makes BW much better to use a tank.
    You can turn on/off options in DBM now. I still wish DXE was up and working, I did hear it was going to have a T15 update for it though *glee*

  2. #1282

  3. #1283
    Quote Originally Posted by Monolith of Mazes View Post
    While we're on the subject of addons for prot (which is hopefully not off topic), can anyone recommend a good HP bar addon? Im using stock hp bar right now, but I'd like something a bit chunkier that could maybe change colors as my hp drops.
    I use power auras for that, you could also use weak auras for it.

    ......................Protection Paladin PoV.....................

  4. #1284
    Deleted
    Actually find it funny, comparing logs between different tanks, we can with almost entire certainty claim that protection paladins have the highest skill cap in terms of outputting damage of all tank classes.

    Interestingly enough, BRMs get by far the lowest skill cap closely followed by druids.

    The community would go haywire if you said that. Paladins can't be harder than other tank classes right?



    Edit: Also realised looking through the numbers, I am just screwing around since I am bored, actually some funny statistics here.

    A bi-product of checking which tank has the highest dps rotation skill cap, we can also tell that.

    25 man heroic (tanks) raiders are on average slightly (very small difference) performs better than 10 man heroic raiders.
    25 man normal (tanks) raiders are on average FAR (extremely huge difference) performs better than 10 man normal raiders.

    This for me boils back to all the arguments in the old 10v25 man threads, about more 25 mans that clear normal modes clear heroic modes in comparison to 10 man guilds. I just think that 25 mans attract more serious raiders and that players should perform to the best of their capabilities whereas the middle and lower end 10 man guilds are more 'casual'.


    How well tanks scale with vengeance
    Warriors >>> Monks = Paladins >>> Druids = DK
    (this does not mean that warriors do the highest dps still, they just scale better but still behind other tanks even on high vengeance.)

    Funny stuff
    Last edited by mmoc4d8e5d065a; 2013-02-28 at 01:31 PM.

  5. #1285
    The community would go haywire if you said that. Paladins can't be harder than other tank classes right?
    They would tell you to get the f... back to your cave under the bridge

    I would also be very careful about using the word "skilled".

  6. #1286
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    They would tell you to get the f... back to your cave under the bridge
    Results in terms of numbers:

    Of course, this is only considering damage output. Calculating which tank requires the highest skill to survive and tank is a whole different story which is a lot harder to mathematically calculate (duh).

    SCV = Skill Cap Value


    10 Man Heroic

    Paladin: 74.35762 SCV
    DK: 68.88903 SCV
    Warrior: 66.11762 SCV
    BRM: 59.40223 SCV
    Druid: 59.20529 SCV


    25 Man Heroic

    Paladin: 73.2964 SCV
    Warrior: 68.78912 SCV
    DK: 53.55643 SCV
    Druid: 47.42665 SCV
    BRM: 38.5516 SCV


    10 Man Normal

    Paladin: 90.45154 SCV
    DK: 82.77200 SCV
    Druid: 77.58327 SCV
    Warrior: 76.70075 SCV
    BRM: 57.85571 SCV


    25 Man normal

    Paladin: 44.89422 SCV
    Warrior: 44.7205 SCV
    DK: 41.07987 SCV
    Druid: 33.01156 SCV
    BRM: 26.06983 SCV



    Vengeance scaling

    Warrior: 24.94
    BRM: 21.55
    Paladin: 21.26
    Druid: 18.61
    DK: 18.08



    Analyzing the numbers:

    Basically, what the nubers show is the difference between the average raider in the respective difficulty and the top 100 raiders. In heroic modes we can assume that the average player is still a good player and knows his class fairly well (atleast he should if he is in heroic modes).

    So looking at the 10H and 25H SCV's tell us, how much better is an excellent player playing in comparison to a player that still knows his class well but maybe not on the cutting edge level.

    Clearly shows that BRM/Druids ca be considered the easier to master than Paladin / DK / Warrior.

    In the normal difficulty, it compares the performance difference from the average normal mode player, most likely an average player, probably knows enough to know what his buttons does but not on the same level as the average heroic mode raider, naturally. And comparing him to the top normal mode players, most likely heroic raiders that players when they played normal modes earlier.

    This for me better shows which class is easier to do "decently" with. The higher difference between a top end raider and the average joe, the higher challenge the average joe has with playing his class to its full potential, indicating which class is more difficult to play on an average level.

    Again paladins taking the lead on difficulty on just an average level of play, and BRM being by far the easiest.



    Vengeance scaling tells us that we should expect warriors to be higher in 25 man than 10 man in comparison to say druids. Which they are. What is fun to notice though is how low the difference is between the average player in 25N and the top players in 25N compared to 10N.
    Last edited by mmoc4d8e5d065a; 2013-02-28 at 01:31 PM.

  7. #1287
    I like it when people are so damn stubborn to defend their class . I only find Paladin the easiest because well, I've been playing one since beginning of wrath and only have dabbled a little bit into the other tanks.

    ......................Protection Paladin PoV.....................

  8. #1288
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Soloz View Post
    I like it when people are so damn stubborn to defend their class . I only find Paladin the easiest because well, I've been playing one since beginning of wrath and only have dabbled a little bit into the other tanks.
    Yeah, for me paladin is ofc the easiest aswell, since I have played paladin since I started WoW. Know warriors quite well and druids, meeeh, averagely.

    If you picked up druid tank instead of paladin since wrath, you would probably play that druid slightly better than you play your paladin currently.

    Just get so sick of the constant stomping on "paladins so easy" that I decided to actually check up the numbers on that.

  9. #1289
    High Overlord Haaz's Avatar
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    Funny stuff idd anyways a quick question if any are able to answer, just about to do some gold runs wich I havent gotten myself to do yet.. I'm a bit unsure about whats better for reforging, stick to my beloved haste build? or go for more avoidance? I'd pref the haste build myself but I dont know if it is actually better at that gear lvl? any opinions please shout out!

  10. #1290
    Titan MerinPally's Avatar
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    I want something to change with the class so I've got something to update this guide on... was excited for 5.2, maybe something will change... but nope

    @ Haaz - I've not done them myself so cannot give a conclusive answer but I'd say haste definitely - extra dps, and smooth damage being taken rather than spikes. Basically, the whole reason we go haste in the first place
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  11. #1291
    High Overlord Haaz's Avatar
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    yea Is what i'm thinking aswell and yea the only thing is gc change, not much idd.. cleave fights will be fun-fun tho :>

    Edit: should allmost wait for 5,2 to do them. since we will most likely have a lot more gc procs on cleave it should be a nice buff for this.
    Last edited by Haaz; 2013-02-28 at 02:01 PM.

  12. #1292
    Titan MerinPally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haaz View Post
    yea Is what i'm thinking aswell and yea the only thing is gc change, not much idd.. cleave fights will be fun-fun tho :>

    Edit: should allmost wait for 5,2 to do them. since we will most likely have a lot more gc procs on cleave it should be a nice buff for this.
    Wimp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    I dont care if they [gays] are allowed to donate [blood], but I think we should have an option to refuse gay blood if we need to receive blood.

  13. #1293
    High Overlord Haaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    Wimp.
    hihih :> The smoother it can be the better. But I aint waiting for it ^^

  14. #1294
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    I want something to change with the class so I've got something to update this guide on... was excited for 5.2, maybe something will change... but nope
    Something does change, the bosses and the gear in the new tier.

    Plenty of room for discussion which gearing strategy works best for the new tier and which talents and glyphs works best.


    @Haaz Haste works just fine, it is not the best in terms of survivability , but the thing is, in CMs, you need AoE stuns and good CD rotation, having mastery/haste/dodge/parry/stamina won't really make the difference in surviving or not. I prefer more haste for more dps to get better times.

  15. #1295
    I'm thinking about something like this

    Level 522
    Required level 417
    Stamina 29,287
    Strength 13,902
    Mastery rating 3469
    Armor 54,823
    Dodge rating 1142
    Parry rating 1167
    Expertise rating 5123
    Haste rating 9771
    Hit rating 2518
    Gem Slots: 1M, 6R, 5Y, 3B, 3P (18 total)

    Still need reforging properly, could probably get another 1-2k stamina out of it without losing too many stat points.
    Last edited by Butler to Baby Sloths; 2013-02-28 at 02:35 PM.

  16. #1296
    Deleted
    I'm convinced that trying to put together something vaguely resembling a BiS-list to aid loot distribution for my guild is a lost cause.

    edit: More on that actually, i found the 4-set bonus to work pretty well on at least one boss during PTR testing (went 2-set ret after that for the haste), but Theck suggests it will be more attractive to 25-man raiders for obvious reasons. Will it be worth going for in your minds?
    Last edited by mmoc67b0b0a6e6; 2013-02-28 at 02:44 PM.

  17. #1297
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tossy View Post
    I'm convinced that trying to put together something vaguely resembling a BiS-list to aid loot distribution for my guild is a lost cause.

    edit: More on that actually, i found the 4-set bonus to work pretty well on at least one boss during PTR testing (went 2-set ret after that for the haste), but Theck suggests it will be more attractive to 25-man raiders for obvious reasons. Will it be worth going for in your minds?
    I would put it in the same boat as the T14 set bonus.

    Nice to have maybe, but I will still be passing on set pieces for all my other raid m8s first since they will benefit more from it.
    Especially 10 man tanks should feel that way aswell.

    I almost prefer better stats on off-set pieces over T15 set bonus, which makes it feel douchy to take set pieces over other people in the raid.

  18. #1298
    Deleted
    Head: Lightning Emperor's Faceguard

    Shoulders: Lightning Emperor's Shoulderguards

    Neck: Moonjade Necklace

    Chest: Chestplate of Violent Detonation

    Back: Horn-Rimmed Doomcloak

    Wrists: Frozen Warlord's Bracers

    Hands: Pathogenic Gauntlets

    Waist: Cloudbreaker Greatbelt

    Legs: Legplates of the Dark Parasite

    Feet: Lightning-Walker Clawfeet

    Ring 1: Band of the Scaled Tyrant

    Ring 2: Ra-den's Ruinous Ring

    Trinket 1: Soul Barrier

    Trinket 2: Spark of Zandalar

    Main-Hand: Qon's Flaming Scimitar

    Off-Hand: Ultimate Protection of the Emperor

    This is simply what i came up with by looking through the dungeon journal and comparing the alternatives. It's obviously disregarding 4-set for now and also i'm not a fan of putting Ra-Den items on there at all seeing as when you're able to get your hands on his loottable progress is already over. So that is something i would probably want to change.

    Also Soul Barrier isn't necessarily the best trinket there is, but i wanted to stay away from crit items for now. Fortitude of the Zandalari is likely better depending on how the magic damage is tuned across the board.

    Other than that, the neck and cloak alternatives from Shado-Pan Assualt faction are itemized with haste at lower item-levels. Might be worth considering anyway. There are also some random enchanted wrists from the instance with a socket, so assuming these come with interesting stats on them they'll likely be BiS.

  19. #1299
    Titan MerinPally's Avatar
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    I'll have to stay out of BiS lists for this tier yet again because of my lack of immersion with the game unfortunately. I'm not going to be around til March 22nd by which point the patch will have been out for a while and the top guilds will have cleared etc etc lalala. Maybe not until a summer patch for me

    Oh and post no. 3000, yeahhh.
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    I dont care if they [gays] are allowed to donate [blood], but I think we should have an option to refuse gay blood if we need to receive blood.

  20. #1300
    Quote Originally Posted by Teks View Post
    Also Soul Barrier isn't necessarily the best trinket there is, but i wanted to stay away from crit items for now. Fortitude of the Zandalari is likely better depending on how the magic damage is tuned across the board.

    Other than that, the neck and cloak alternatives from Shado-Pan Assualt faction are itemized with haste at lower item-levels. Might be worth considering anyway. There are also some random enchanted wrists from the instance with a socket, so assuming these come with interesting stats on them they'll likely be BiS.
    Requoting for emphasis here, as you can stack up 3k valor and pick up both the neck and cloak in the first week (if you can kill a boss, based on rep progression notes from Blues) for some moderate-to-hefty upgrades, depending on what you're rocking in those slots.

    I'm personally stuck with Elite Protectors neck and Heroic WL cape, so these will be replacing some dodge/accuracy pieces quickly! /fistpump
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