1. #1301
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Requoting for emphasis here, as you can stack up 3k valor and pick up both the neck and cloak in the first week (if you can kill a boss, based on rep progression notes from Blues) for some moderate-to-hefty upgrades, depending on what you're rocking in those slots.

    I'm personally stuck with Elite Protectors neck and Heroic WL cape, so these will be replacing some dodge/accuracy pieces quickly! /fistpump
    Indeed, unfortunately out of all the crappy pieces i still have on my toon the cloak and neck aren't two of them.
    But it's very likely those two items are what most prot paladins will progress with (especially in 10-man).

    *INB4 Blizzard removes sanctity of battle for prot 1 week into 5.2 out of the blue.

  2. #1302
    On the topic of BiS gear I thought I'd build up some sets to see what haste levels we'll be looking at come 5.2.

    *Please note this is my own personal BiS, I value hit/exp hardcaps > haste >>> everything else, so some item choices will be questionable.

    Comparison Link (seeing as it's a personal BiS set do note that I use JC gems and BS sockets, keep that in mind if you adjust things for yourself).
    *I do know about the random stat bracer drops, they'll be BiS if they come in haste, unfortunately can't use them for comparison though.

    Decided to compare three groups, a full normal 522 ilvl set, a full H ilvl ~535 set and a full H 2/2 ~543 ilvl set (this one was just for fun to see the current theoretical haste values of this tier, unfortunately couldn't include H thunderforged).

    Any haste % wrapped in brackets refer to dual haste trinkets Spark of Zandalar/Breath of the Hydra. The proc stacks are based off Talisman of Bloodlust.


    Examples BiS (dual trinket) Unbuffed/Elixir&food
    Unbuffed Elixir/Food(+900+ Proc stacks (1) Proc stacks (2) Proc stacks (3) Proc stacks (4) Proc stacks (5)
    Normal 38.26%(41.71%) 40.38%(43.83%) 41.88%/43.99%
    45.50%/47.61%
    49.12%/51.23%
    52.73%/54.85%
    56.35%/58.47%
    Heroic 43.64%(47.54%) 45.76%(49.65%) 47.73%/49.84%
    51.81%/63.93%
    55.90%/58.01%
    59.98%/62.10%
    64.07%/66.18%
    2/2 Heroic 47.03%(51.23%) 49.15%(63.35%) 51.43%/53.55%
    55.83%/57.95%
    60.23%/62.35%
    64.63%/66.75%
    69.03%/71.15%
    *I only included Breath of the Hydra to show the amount of haste two passive trinkets would give.

    With Heroic Thunderforged and 2/2 upgrading coming back we could see 50% haste achievable by the end of the tier, however don't get too excited as you'd have to be close to or at full heroic Thunderforged with some 2/2 upgrades to reach it (without Talisman of Bloodlust at least)

    Not too sure about Talisman of Bloodlust, on one hand it provides a great amount of haste, but if we're able to keep it stacked high enough consistently we'll be over 50% haste a majority of the time. ~btw Firefly the N Talisman provides 1538 haste per proc with 3 RPPM, just above what the GID brings to the table, assuming the uptime is decent it might be a possible replacement.~

    Anyway, interested to see all your thoughts and alternative gearing strategies.

    *This post might go through some editing to clarfiy or elaborate certain subjects, if my math is wrong on anything feel free to call me out and I'll fix it when I can.
    **edit-added
    Haunted Steel Treads(BiS) ~updated~ Graph/haste% values.
    Last edited by DrDreads; 2013-03-01 at 01:50 AM.

  3. #1303
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by DrDreads View Post
    Not too sure about Talisman of Bloodlust, on one hand it provides a great amount of haste, but if we're able to keep it stacked high enough consistently we'll be over 50% haste a majority of the time. ~btw Firefly the N Talisman provides 1538 haste per proc with 3 RPPM, just above what the GID brings to the table, assuming the uptime is decent it might be a possible replacement.~

    Anyway, interested to see all your thoughts and alternative gearing strategies.
    I have no doubt that the GID will be replaced in the next tier. Though people gearing up and people or people not in full T14 heroic 2/2 gear should think twice before replacing it. If you are not using like Lei-Shin heroic 2/2 then it could be worth replacing the other trinket first.

    I have a feeling the GID will fly under the radar for new paladin tanks and maybe this guide should highlight it somewhere for starter gear or whatever.

  4. #1304
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    I have a feeling the GID will fly under the radar for new paladin tanks and maybe this guide should highlight it somewhere for starter gear or whatever.
    Frankly I'm surprised you haven't edited your signature to be a PSA for GID (and SW) by now.

    Not being snarky, just noting/stating.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  5. #1305
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Frankly I'm surprised you haven't edited your signature to be a PSA for GID (and SW) by now.

    Not being snarky, just noting/stating.
    suprised I do not have some standard issue reply yet regarding those things. Just ctrl+c ctrl+v

    And well, the reason I talk so much about GID and SW is just because so many people are against them.

    If people were saying that EF was a better talent than SS then I would be advocating SS. But I do not need to talk about things that people already agree on. The problem is that comparing like EF to SS is easier for people than comparing like HA and SW. HA's effect is more noticable, you see "omg i can spam sotr all the time lolz". However with SW, you do not really notice the 20% healing increase, but it is there. You do not notice the 10s longer wings, but it is there. The only thing you really notice is that you can spam more judgement = slightly more SotRs. But then people just compare the slightly more HoPo vs a lot more HoPo and ignore the other benefits of SW and the long duration of it.

    So that is why stuff like SW is something that has to be brought up again, and again, and again. Because it is something that people do not agree on yet, so it spurs discussions.

    Same goes for GID, people ignore it because it is blue, and just look "omg epics with item level", and never stop to actually analyze the trinket choices, hence people ignore GID when they really shouldn't. So you constantly have to remind new people all the time about GID, which is why GID is a recurring subject.

    It is kinda natural that the controversial subjects gets the most attention.

    In MoP release I was known as the haste crusader. I was pretty much the only player on this forum that advocated the haste build. Every guide on the interwebz and 95% of the paladins talked about mastery build as only option, and haste as a gimped fun build with no use.
    It was only until much later in the expansion that the haste build was acknowledged.

    I feel like people have started to understand the value of GID now, atleast in these forums

    I guess it is just a matter of time before people starts preferring SW aswell.
    Last edited by mmoc4d8e5d065a; 2013-03-01 at 04:18 PM.

  6. #1306
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    I guess it is just a matter of time before people starts preferring SW aswell.
    Actually, not only that. DiPurp is a strong talent in it's own way. It scales infinitly better with haste than HA (where HA even slightly loses efficency with higher haste before ShoTR is on sanctity of battle in 5.2). On fights where you are taking somewhat constant damage from melee range and/or if you are onetanking a fight, i'm pretty sure DiPurp averages out to be higher ShoTR uptime. It obviously lacks the on-demand factor that's more often than not extremely good for tanks these days, but there are fights where damage intake is consistent and steady enough to where i would prefer it personally.

    I think all three talents are strong in their own rights, and much like the 90 talents they have massive individual upsides in different situations. Paladin talents are extremely well balanced across the board compared to some other classes.

  7. #1307
    Quote Originally Posted by Tossy View Post
    Actually, not only that. DiPurp is a strong talent in it's own way. It scales infinitly better with haste than HA (where HA even slightly loses efficency with higher haste before ShoTR is on sanctity of battle in 5.2). On fights where you are taking somewhat constant damage from melee range and/or if you are onetanking a fight, i'm pretty sure DiPurp averages out to be higher ShoTR uptime. It obviously lacks the on-demand factor that's more often than not extremely good for tanks these days, but there are fights where damage intake is consistent and steady enough to where i would prefer it personally.

    I think all three talents are strong in their own rights, and much like the 90 talents they have massive individual upsides in different situations. Paladin talents are extremely well balanced across the board compared to some other classes.
    The biggest problem with DP, is that in our case the random aspect is detrimental compared to the other talents, so until we start to value DPS properly (which hopefully we will soon if Haste stacking becomes more normal) it will have significantly reduced efficiency compared to other talents, with them being so well balanced as it is.

  8. #1308
    Titan MerinPally's Avatar
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    I love going around deleting my posts in the morning because I check w/e the fuck I wrote the night before and remove it out of shame.
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nicus/advanced
    Quote Originally Posted by goblinpaladin View Post
    Also a vegetable is a person.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    I dont care if they [gays] are allowed to donate [blood], but I think we should have an option to refuse gay blood if we need to receive blood.

  9. #1309
    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    I love going around deleting my posts in the morning because I check w/e the fuck I wrote the night before and remove it out of shame.
    I don't blame you, that post was.... err

    Righteousness

  10. #1310
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    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    I love going around deleting my posts in the morning because I check w/e the fuck I wrote the night before and remove it out of shame.
    Ha-ha, that one wasn't too bad tho. Think i've seen worse.

  11. #1311
    Titan MerinPally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tossy View Post
    Ha-ha, that one wasn't too bad tho. Think i've seen worse.
    Yeah but this one was disgusting, I've fucking carpeted that street now. Hopefully it'll rain soon.

    Ain't nobody got time for that.

    It's not what you want to read, but hey I think the curry was good but I'm really not too sure All I definitely know is the fuckers didn't give us our naan bread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by goblinpaladin View Post
    Also a vegetable is a person.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    I dont care if they [gays] are allowed to donate [blood], but I think we should have an option to refuse gay blood if we need to receive blood.

  12. #1312
    Deleted
    I think some mod needs to remove Merins permissions to delete and edit his own posts on weekends.

    Holy
    Sacred
    Divine

  13. #1313
    Titan MerinPally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    I think some mod needs to remove Merins permissions to delete and edit his own posts on weekends.

    Holy
    Sacred
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    That'd be a terrible thing, did you even see the post I made last night? It was hideous. Thank God it was like 2am when I posted it (I think...) and then saw it before it was too late in the day...

    Bad enough actually doing it let alone telling everyone in an almost proud yet mortified-at-my-own-actions style. Also, your plan has a huge flaw and that is, being a student I drink just as much during the week. Never really go out on Saturdays (apparently I do but I don't remember so it doesn't happen). Monday is Oceana or a night in, Tuesday is Market Bar, Wednesday is Crisis, Thursday is The Forum (favourite) and Friday is Ocean. However, no Ocean last night. My girlfriend lives in a nearby flat owned by the university with 6 others - 5 girls, 2 guys in that flat. One of the guys is gay so its basically 6 on 1.

    Due to this, I now have "Chloe time" but I also have "James time". The former consists of me listening to K-pop wanting to hurl myself off the Portland Building at Nottingham University. The latter consists of drinking a shitload for no reason other than "no lectures left today", playing FIFA, listening to heavy metal/club music at full volume at 1am and the occasional throwing of a bottle. The latter happened last night and it ended really badly. No editing would mean my hideous posts would stay up!

    Was going to advocate a ban every weekend but very occasionally I say something remotely useful, so on the off chance I do, it's probably not worth it.

    So anyway guys... Umm... Brawlers Guild... people been doing this as Prot? Was wondering how far you can get before the dps becomes just simply undoable.
    Last edited by MerinPally; 2013-03-02 at 05:39 PM.
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nicus/advanced
    Quote Originally Posted by goblinpaladin View Post
    Also a vegetable is a person.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    I dont care if they [gays] are allowed to donate [blood], but I think we should have an option to refuse gay blood if we need to receive blood.

  14. #1314
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    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    That'd be a terrible thing, did you even see the post I made last night? It was hideous. Thank God it was like 2am when I posted it (I think...) and then saw it before it was too late in the day...
    Paladin forums... I see all...

  15. #1315
    Titan MerinPally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Paladin forums... I see all...
    Then would you really like to have what I posted, immortalized for 2 days? It's equivalent to defilement of our sacred sanctuary!
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nicus/advanced
    Quote Originally Posted by goblinpaladin View Post
    Also a vegetable is a person.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    I dont care if they [gays] are allowed to donate [blood], but I think we should have an option to refuse gay blood if we need to receive blood.

  16. #1316
    Quote Originally Posted by Tossy View Post
    Actually, not only that. DiPurp is a strong talent in it's own way. It scales infinitly better with haste than HA (where HA even slightly loses efficency with higher haste before ShoTR is on sanctity of battle in 5.2). On fights where you are taking somewhat constant damage from melee range and/or if you are onetanking a fight, i'm pretty sure DiPurp averages out to be higher ShoTR uptime. It obviously lacks the on-demand factor that's more often than not extremely good for tanks these days, but there are fights where damage intake is consistent and steady enough to where i would prefer it personally.

    I think all three talents are strong in their own rights, and much like the 90 talents they have massive individual upsides in different situations. Paladin talents are extremely well balanced across the board compared to some other classes.
    As we gain more and more haste, the effects of Divine Purpose will increase. The increased uptime on Shield of the Righteous isn't massive, I think in my personal raid testing have seen a 5-10% uptime increase.

  17. #1317
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by promdate View Post
    As we gain more and more haste, the effects of Divine Purpose will increase. The increased uptime on Shield of the Righteous isn't massive, I think in my personal raid testing have seen a 5-10% uptime increase.
    Which doesn't really matter as long as you're tanking in a scenario with predictable damage spikes. In that case it can be either the best talent by far or the worst or anything in between. The lack of control is a fair tradeoff for it not being a cooldown-type ability. In some cases it's very good throughout, and in some cases you want that extra defensive cooldown in HA or SW. It's as simple as that, but neglecting it isn't right either, we have that choice and have to judge (no pun intended) the situation and use some good thinking. I see a lot of paladins who've decided to never use it for probably the same reasons a lot of people don't use SW.

    It's a well balanced tier of talents, so it's undoubtedly healthy to try them all out as you see fit.

  18. #1318
    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    So anyway guys... Umm... Brawlers Guild... people been doing this as Prot? Was wondering how far you can get before the dps becomes just simply undoable.
    I'm up to rank 3 with zero issues. Guildies that are 7 or 8 say that it should be no problem up to 5-6, may start to get trouble with enrage timers on rank 7 fights.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-02 at 08:36 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by promdate View Post
    As we gain more and more haste, the effects of Divine Purpose will increase. The increased uptime on Shield of the Righteous isn't massive, I think in my personal raid testing have seen a 5-10% uptime increase.
    Although clever use of ShoR increases the useful uptime.

  19. #1319
    The Insane Rivin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    So anyway guys... Umm... Brawlers Guild... people been doing this as Prot? Was wondering how far you can get before the dps becomes just simply undoable.
    The enrage timers are really tight. At the very least, you will not beat rank 7--I've seen many DPS unable to beat the enrage timers on Battletron and GG Engineering.

  20. #1320
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivin View Post
    The enrage timers are really tight. At the very least, you will not beat rank 7--I've seen many DPS unable to beat the enrage timers on Battletron and GG Engineering.
    I am still stuck at GG. Haven't really tried in awhile, but I am waiting for my gear level to go higher before I try again - 485 doesn't seem high enough for me. I don't doubt that in prot, it's almost impossible due to our pitiful damage.

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