1. #1301
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    Funny stuff idd anyways a quick question if any are able to answer, just about to do some gold runs wich I havent gotten myself to do yet.. I'm a bit unsure about whats better for reforging, stick to my beloved haste build? or go for more avoidance? I'd pref the haste build myself but I dont know if it is actually better at that gear lvl? any opinions please shout out!

  2. #1302
    Old God MerinPally's Avatar
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    I want something to change with the class so I've got something to update this guide on... was excited for 5.2, maybe something will change... but nope

    @ Haaz - I've not done them myself so cannot give a conclusive answer but I'd say haste definitely - extra dps, and smooth damage being taken rather than spikes. Basically, the whole reason we go haste in the first place
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  3. #1303
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    yea Is what i'm thinking aswell and yea the only thing is gc change, not much idd.. cleave fights will be fun-fun tho :>

    Edit: should allmost wait for 5,2 to do them. since we will most likely have a lot more gc procs on cleave it should be a nice buff for this.
    Last edited by Haaz; 2013-02-28 at 02:01 PM.

  4. #1304
    Old God MerinPally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haaz View Post
    yea Is what i'm thinking aswell and yea the only thing is gc change, not much idd.. cleave fights will be fun-fun tho :>

    Edit: should allmost wait for 5,2 to do them. since we will most likely have a lot more gc procs on cleave it should be a nice buff for this.
    Wimp.

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  5. #1305
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    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    Wimp.
    hihih :> The smoother it can be the better. But I aint waiting for it ^^

  6. #1306
    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    I want something to change with the class so I've got something to update this guide on... was excited for 5.2, maybe something will change... but nope
    Something does change, the bosses and the gear in the new tier.

    Plenty of room for discussion which gearing strategy works best for the new tier and which talents and glyphs works best.


    @Haaz Haste works just fine, it is not the best in terms of survivability , but the thing is, in CMs, you need AoE stuns and good CD rotation, having mastery/haste/dodge/parry/stamina won't really make the difference in surviving or not. I prefer more haste for more dps to get better times.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  7. #1307
    I'm thinking about something like this

    Level 522
    Required level 417
    Stamina 29,287
    Strength 13,902
    Mastery rating 3469
    Armor 54,823
    Dodge rating 1142
    Parry rating 1167
    Expertise rating 5123
    Haste rating 9771
    Hit rating 2518
    Gem Slots: 1M, 6R, 5Y, 3B, 3P (18 total)

    Still need reforging properly, could probably get another 1-2k stamina out of it without losing too many stat points.
    Last edited by Butler Log; 2013-02-28 at 02:35 PM.
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  8. #1308
    I'm convinced that trying to put together something vaguely resembling a BiS-list to aid loot distribution for my guild is a lost cause.

    edit: More on that actually, i found the 4-set bonus to work pretty well on at least one boss during PTR testing (went 2-set ret after that for the haste), but Theck suggests it will be more attractive to 25-man raiders for obvious reasons. Will it be worth going for in your minds?
    Last edited by Tossy; 2013-02-28 at 02:44 PM.

  9. #1309
    Quote Originally Posted by Tossy View Post
    I'm convinced that trying to put together something vaguely resembling a BiS-list to aid loot distribution for my guild is a lost cause.

    edit: More on that actually, i found the 4-set bonus to work pretty well on at least one boss during PTR testing (went 2-set ret after that for the haste), but Theck suggests it will be more attractive to 25-man raiders for obvious reasons. Will it be worth going for in your minds?
    I would put it in the same boat as the T14 set bonus.

    Nice to have maybe, but I will still be passing on set pieces for all my other raid m8s first since they will benefit more from it.
    Especially 10 man tanks should feel that way aswell.

    I almost prefer better stats on off-set pieces over T15 set bonus, which makes it feel douchy to take set pieces over other people in the raid.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  10. #1310
    Head: Lightning Emperor's Faceguard

    Shoulders: Lightning Emperor's Shoulderguards

    Neck: Moonjade Necklace

    Chest: Chestplate of Violent Detonation

    Back: Horn-Rimmed Doomcloak

    Wrists: Frozen Warlord's Bracers

    Hands: Pathogenic Gauntlets

    Waist: Cloudbreaker Greatbelt

    Legs: Legplates of the Dark Parasite

    Feet: Lightning-Walker Clawfeet

    Ring 1: Band of the Scaled Tyrant

    Ring 2: Ra-den's Ruinous Ring

    Trinket 1: Soul Barrier

    Trinket 2: Spark of Zandalar

    Main-Hand: Qon's Flaming Scimitar

    Off-Hand: Ultimate Protection of the Emperor

    This is simply what i came up with by looking through the dungeon journal and comparing the alternatives. It's obviously disregarding 4-set for now and also i'm not a fan of putting Ra-Den items on there at all seeing as when you're able to get your hands on his loottable progress is already over. So that is something i would probably want to change.

    Also Soul Barrier isn't necessarily the best trinket there is, but i wanted to stay away from crit items for now. Fortitude of the Zandalari is likely better depending on how the magic damage is tuned across the board.

    Other than that, the neck and cloak alternatives from Shado-Pan Assualt faction are itemized with haste at lower item-levels. Might be worth considering anyway. There are also some random enchanted wrists from the instance with a socket, so assuming these come with interesting stats on them they'll likely be BiS.

  11. #1311
    Old God MerinPally's Avatar
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    I'll have to stay out of BiS lists for this tier yet again because of my lack of immersion with the game unfortunately. I'm not going to be around til March 22nd by which point the patch will have been out for a while and the top guilds will have cleared etc etc lalala. Maybe not until a summer patch for me

    Oh and post no. 3000, yeahhh.
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  12. #1312
    Quote Originally Posted by Teks View Post
    Also Soul Barrier isn't necessarily the best trinket there is, but i wanted to stay away from crit items for now. Fortitude of the Zandalari is likely better depending on how the magic damage is tuned across the board.

    Other than that, the neck and cloak alternatives from Shado-Pan Assualt faction are itemized with haste at lower item-levels. Might be worth considering anyway. There are also some random enchanted wrists from the instance with a socket, so assuming these come with interesting stats on them they'll likely be BiS.
    Requoting for emphasis here, as you can stack up 3k valor and pick up both the neck and cloak in the first week (if you can kill a boss, based on rep progression notes from Blues) for some moderate-to-hefty upgrades, depending on what you're rocking in those slots.

    I'm personally stuck with Elite Protectors neck and Heroic WL cape, so these will be replacing some dodge/accuracy pieces quickly! /fistpump
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  13. #1313
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Requoting for emphasis here, as you can stack up 3k valor and pick up both the neck and cloak in the first week (if you can kill a boss, based on rep progression notes from Blues) for some moderate-to-hefty upgrades, depending on what you're rocking in those slots.

    I'm personally stuck with Elite Protectors neck and Heroic WL cape, so these will be replacing some dodge/accuracy pieces quickly! /fistpump
    Indeed, unfortunately out of all the crappy pieces i still have on my toon the cloak and neck aren't two of them.
    But it's very likely those two items are what most prot paladins will progress with (especially in 10-man).

    *INB4 Blizzard removes sanctity of battle for prot 1 week into 5.2 out of the blue.

  14. #1314
    On the topic of BiS gear I thought I'd build up some sets to see what haste levels we'll be looking at come 5.2.

    *Please note this is my own personal BiS, I value hit/exp hardcaps > haste >>> everything else, so some item choices will be questionable.

    Comparison Link (seeing as it's a personal BiS set do note that I use JC gems and BS sockets, keep that in mind if you adjust things for yourself).
    *I do know about the random stat bracer drops, they'll be BiS if they come in haste, unfortunately can't use them for comparison though.

    Decided to compare three groups, a full normal 522 ilvl set, a full H ilvl ~535 set and a full H 2/2 ~543 ilvl set (this one was just for fun to see the current theoretical haste values of this tier, unfortunately couldn't include H thunderforged).

    Any haste % wrapped in brackets refer to dual haste trinkets Spark of Zandalar/Breath of the Hydra. The proc stacks are based off Talisman of Bloodlust.


    Examples BiS (dual trinket) Unbuffed/Elixir&food
    Unbuffed Elixir/Food(+900+ Proc stacks (1) Proc stacks (2) Proc stacks (3) Proc stacks (4) Proc stacks (5)
    Normal 38.26%(41.71%) 40.38%(43.83%) 41.88%/43.99%
    45.50%/47.61%
    49.12%/51.23%
    52.73%/54.85%
    56.35%/58.47%
    Heroic 43.64%(47.54%) 45.76%(49.65%) 47.73%/49.84%
    51.81%/63.93%
    55.90%/58.01%
    59.98%/62.10%
    64.07%/66.18%
    2/2 Heroic 47.03%(51.23%) 49.15%(63.35%) 51.43%/53.55%
    55.83%/57.95%
    60.23%/62.35%
    64.63%/66.75%
    69.03%/71.15%
    *I only included Breath of the Hydra to show the amount of haste two passive trinkets would give.

    With Heroic Thunderforged and 2/2 upgrading coming back we could see 50% haste achievable by the end of the tier, however don't get too excited as you'd have to be close to or at full heroic Thunderforged with some 2/2 upgrades to reach it (without Talisman of Bloodlust at least)

    Not too sure about Talisman of Bloodlust, on one hand it provides a great amount of haste, but if we're able to keep it stacked high enough consistently we'll be over 50% haste a majority of the time. ~btw Firefly the N Talisman provides 1538 haste per proc with 3 RPPM, just above what the GID brings to the table, assuming the uptime is decent it might be a possible replacement.~

    Anyway, interested to see all your thoughts and alternative gearing strategies.

    *This post might go through some editing to clarfiy or elaborate certain subjects, if my math is wrong on anything feel free to call me out and I'll fix it when I can.
    **edit-added
    Haunted Steel Treads(BiS) ~updated~ Graph/haste% values.
    Last edited by DrDreads; 2013-03-01 at 01:50 AM.

  15. #1315
    Quote Originally Posted by DrDreads View Post
    Not too sure about Talisman of Bloodlust, on one hand it provides a great amount of haste, but if we're able to keep it stacked high enough consistently we'll be over 50% haste a majority of the time. ~btw Firefly the N Talisman provides 1538 haste per proc with 3 RPPM, just above what the GID brings to the table, assuming the uptime is decent it might be a possible replacement.~

    Anyway, interested to see all your thoughts and alternative gearing strategies.
    I have no doubt that the GID will be replaced in the next tier. Though people gearing up and people or people not in full T14 heroic 2/2 gear should think twice before replacing it. If you are not using like Lei-Shin heroic 2/2 then it could be worth replacing the other trinket first.

    I have a feeling the GID will fly under the radar for new paladin tanks and maybe this guide should highlight it somewhere for starter gear or whatever.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  16. #1316
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    I have a feeling the GID will fly under the radar for new paladin tanks and maybe this guide should highlight it somewhere for starter gear or whatever.
    Frankly I'm surprised you haven't edited your signature to be a PSA for GID (and SW) by now.

    Not being snarky, just noting/stating.
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  17. #1317
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Frankly I'm surprised you haven't edited your signature to be a PSA for GID (and SW) by now.

    Not being snarky, just noting/stating.
    suprised I do not have some standard issue reply yet regarding those things. Just ctrl+c ctrl+v

    And well, the reason I talk so much about GID and SW is just because so many people are against them.

    If people were saying that EF was a better talent than SS then I would be advocating SS. But I do not need to talk about things that people already agree on. The problem is that comparing like EF to SS is easier for people than comparing like HA and SW. HA's effect is more noticable, you see "omg i can spam sotr all the time lolz". However with SW, you do not really notice the 20% healing increase, but it is there. You do not notice the 10s longer wings, but it is there. The only thing you really notice is that you can spam more judgement = slightly more SotRs. But then people just compare the slightly more HoPo vs a lot more HoPo and ignore the other benefits of SW and the long duration of it.

    So that is why stuff like SW is something that has to be brought up again, and again, and again. Because it is something that people do not agree on yet, so it spurs discussions.

    Same goes for GID, people ignore it because it is blue, and just look "omg epics with item level", and never stop to actually analyze the trinket choices, hence people ignore GID when they really shouldn't. So you constantly have to remind new people all the time about GID, which is why GID is a recurring subject.

    It is kinda natural that the controversial subjects gets the most attention.

    In MoP release I was known as the haste crusader. I was pretty much the only player on this forum that advocated the haste build. Every guide on the interwebz and 95% of the paladins talked about mastery build as only option, and haste as a gimped fun build with no use.
    It was only until much later in the expansion that the haste build was acknowledged.

    I feel like people have started to understand the value of GID now, atleast in these forums

    I guess it is just a matter of time before people starts preferring SW aswell.
    Last edited by Firefly33; 2013-03-01 at 04:18 PM.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  18. #1318
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    I guess it is just a matter of time before people starts preferring SW aswell.
    Actually, not only that. DiPurp is a strong talent in it's own way. It scales infinitly better with haste than HA (where HA even slightly loses efficency with higher haste before ShoTR is on sanctity of battle in 5.2). On fights where you are taking somewhat constant damage from melee range and/or if you are onetanking a fight, i'm pretty sure DiPurp averages out to be higher ShoTR uptime. It obviously lacks the on-demand factor that's more often than not extremely good for tanks these days, but there are fights where damage intake is consistent and steady enough to where i would prefer it personally.

    I think all three talents are strong in their own rights, and much like the 90 talents they have massive individual upsides in different situations. Paladin talents are extremely well balanced across the board compared to some other classes.

  19. #1319
    Quote Originally Posted by Tossy View Post
    Actually, not only that. DiPurp is a strong talent in it's own way. It scales infinitly better with haste than HA (where HA even slightly loses efficency with higher haste before ShoTR is on sanctity of battle in 5.2). On fights where you are taking somewhat constant damage from melee range and/or if you are onetanking a fight, i'm pretty sure DiPurp averages out to be higher ShoTR uptime. It obviously lacks the on-demand factor that's more often than not extremely good for tanks these days, but there are fights where damage intake is consistent and steady enough to where i would prefer it personally.

    I think all three talents are strong in their own rights, and much like the 90 talents they have massive individual upsides in different situations. Paladin talents are extremely well balanced across the board compared to some other classes.
    The biggest problem with DP, is that in our case the random aspect is detrimental compared to the other talents, so until we start to value DPS properly (which hopefully we will soon if Haste stacking becomes more normal) it will have significantly reduced efficiency compared to other talents, with them being so well balanced as it is.

  20. #1320
    Old God MerinPally's Avatar
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    I love going around deleting my posts in the morning because I check w/e the fuck I wrote the night before and remove it out of shame.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valarius View Post
    Oh shut the fuck up you spack cunt.

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