[MoP] Protection Paladin Guide

[MerinPally]

I move to implement italic pink comic sans as the sarcasm font.

You sir, are a genius.

But yeah, I want something new and interesting

[Xs]

I move to implement italic pink comic sans as the sarcasm font.

One problem I see with that, is that I just read that while being tired from a long day, and I actually just thought there was a giant hole in your post rather than sarcasm..

[Libertarian]

Hey question. I'm a raid leader and don't play prot paladin.

Is haste or mastery more viable in t15? It seems like mastery is ahead and mitigates more damage overall.

[Firefly33]

Hey question. I'm a raid leader and don't play prot paladin.

Is haste or mastery more viable in t15? It seems like mastery is ahead and mitigates more damage overall.

Mastery is always more valuable for predictable spikes, though generally haste will preserve more mana for the healers

Though if you are raiding 10's, haste is just so far more valuable due to added dps that it brings.

[Libertarian]

Mastery is always more valuable for predictable spikes, though generally haste will preserve more mana for the healers

Though if you are raiding 10's, haste is just so far more valuable due to added dps that it brings.

Well our prot paladin seems to be falling much more than our DK on magaera. We had wipes at 1-5%, so we pretty much have it but it seems like he just takes way too much damage. We had that same type of issue on Heroic Empress too.

[Felir]

Well our prot paladin seems to be falling much more than our DK on magaera. We had wipes at 1-5%, so we pretty much have it but it seems like he just takes way too much damage. We had that same type of issue on Heroic Empress too.

Link his armoury please.

[promdate]

He is possibly doing something wrong then. On 25N, I took 15m less damage than our DK on Megaera. Be sure to have him and any other paladin spec into Hand of Purity. You can chain these on the red head tank, to lessen the damage they take from the ignite debuff. If he's taking considering more damage, he's probably doing something wrong with his cooldowns. Do you have a log or anything of your attempts?

Btw, managed to get 1st Prot Pal 25N Tortos (2nd overall) and 5th Prot Pal for Megaera. New content is new rankings

[Firefly33]

Well our prot paladin seems to be falling much more than our DK on magaera. We had wipes at 1-5%, so we pretty much have it but it seems like he just takes way too much damage. We had that same type of issue on Heroic Empress too.

As others said, that is not a gearing issue that is a player issue. Megaera is so much magic damage, mastery won't help on that.

[Nairobi]

Well our prot paladin seems to be falling much more than our DK on magaera. We had wipes at 1-5%, so we pretty much have it but it seems like he just takes way too much damage. We had that same type of issue on Heroic Empress too.

Given that you had these issues before, it may be a player issue. However, the head combo is a real crux in that fight.

I was tanking red and green, which is REALLY nasty if you can't push the phase before the 4th breath, since you'll go into the next head with 4 stacks of the debuff (either a huge fire DOT or a flat 40% dmg taken debuff). Meanwhile, my monk OT was tanking blue/green, which is FAR less damage (since blue only does a stun if you get to 5 stacks, somehow). So, naturally, I took a shitload more damage than the monk.

That said, HoPurity is a fucking BAWS on this fight. That + 40% magic redux via DivProt makes Flaming Heads a joke. The best way to counter flaming heads aside from this, is to burn the heads before the 4th breath, which makes the phase (and fight) extremely easier. Make sure that your DPS is lighting up the kill target during Rampage; you can usually get the head to ~60% or less during the rampage before breaths even start.

[promdate]

Stuff -n- things.

Everything he just said is 100% true. We were burning the heads in 3 breaths and it was a huge difference from the attempt or two we weren't burning through Rampage. We tanked them differently, actually having both tanks go through each head. Purity is amazing for this. The only issue is the Paladin tank might not ever be in range of the red tank (I was on Green when our Dk was on red).

[youlowgee]

think it would be worth it to break 4 piece for http://www.wowhead.com/item=94764/ov...eaker-cuirass#. + tier gloves?

I wanted to wait for another piece of tier but who knows when that will happen. in my gear 4 piece is a 5% increase on SotR, but I think the huge increase in stam and haste would be more beneficial. idk.

armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...owgee/advanced

[Luminalol]

Good evening fellow Prot friends, im just curious about Haste/Exp gearing, i played it for a while but changed bk to pure Mastery (ofc hit-cap) etc, but now when i recived some precious items, id like to go back to Haste/Exp.

I wonder now (I play with Lei-Shen trinket (normal)) and Heroic Elegon Trinket! I also has the neck from first boss HC MSV. Which one would you guys preffer to buy first? I got 1995 Valor and Im not sure if i should buy the Brutal Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault (1467 Expertise and a chance of 8800 Strenght) or the Mastery one with 16k dodge on use! or the neck with Haste/Mastery on to replace my 502 neck

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Amina/advanced

There is my armory, im not sure if i can link it or not, but we'll see. I haven't fixed my GEAR yet with the reforging and regemming yet bk to Expertise/Haste, but i just wanted to know first if i should buy the Expertise or Mastery trinket, or the neck which gives me Haste/Mastery, thoughts? Would love an response.

Thanks in advance // Lúmina @ Ragnaros EU (H)

[Tossy]

Good evening fellow Prot friends, im just curious about Haste/Exp gearing, i played it for a while but changed bk to pure Mastery (ofc hit-cap) etc, but now when i recived some precious items, id like to go back to Haste/Exp.

I wonder now (I play with Lei-Shen trinket (normal)) and Heroic Elegon Trinket! I also has the neck from first boss HC MSV. Which one would you guys preffer to buy first? I got 1995 Valor and Im not sure if i should buy the Brutal Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault (1467 Expertise and a chance of 8800 Strenght) or the Mastery one with 16k dodge on use! or the neck with Haste/Mastery on to replace my 502 neck

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Amina/advanced

There is my armory, im not sure if i can link it or not, but we'll see. I haven't fixed my GEAR yet with the reforging and regemming yet bk to Expertise/Haste, but i just wanted to know first if i should buy the Expertise or Mastery trinket, or the neck which gives me Haste/Mastery, thoughts? Would love an response.

Thanks in advance // Lúmina @ Ragnaros EU (H)

Hey, go ahead and buy the neck first and buy a cheap ghost iron dragonling on the AH and put some hit, expertise and haste cogwheels in there to switch out the Vial with and kill two birds with one stone. That would be my suggestion!

[rawhammer]

Buy the neck, seems pretty bis to me.

[Xs]

Hey, go ahead and buy the neck first and buy a cheap ghost iron dragonling on the AH and put some hit, expertise and haste cogwheels in there to switch out the Vial with and kill two birds with one stone. That would be my suggestion!

Firefly will be proud

[Firefly33]

Firefly will be proud

Thats... my... son... <sniff>

[Tossy]

Thats... my... son... <sniff>

soniamproud.jpg

Anyways, i stumbled upon Theck's MATLAB thread on maintankadin today, and was completely taken by suprise when i saw it's been updated for 5.2.
Something anyone could've guessed, that i was happy i could verify there was the, maybe not so intended, buff to holy avenger when ShoTR was put on sanctity of battle. It now yields the highest DPS out of the talents.

His conclusion is pretty much that with both HA and DiPurp scaling so well with haste SA might have lost a lot of it's luster. The 20% healing taken increase is nice, but very niche. Situations where you're out of reach of a melee target and taking heavy magical damage for example is where it could be situationally awesome, spamming J with incredible self-healing capability, but let's be real; how many situations like that are there?

This is a shame, because having 3/3 talents situationally on top is more fun than 2/3.
Other than that there is a lot of info, even if not news to everyone, that can be nice to read through. Maybe just to confirm what you already knew.
http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.c...718673#p718673

[djtravitrav]

I stopped taking sanctified wrath after they nerfed the ret 4pc that lowered the cd on avenging wrath. Using holy avenger now.

Yes I was tanking with ret 4pc in the previous tier, because the combo was amazing.

[Firefly33]

When I get time around, I will try to make a talent guide for each T15 encounter with logical reasoning behind it.

What I can tell you though is that SW is still a lot stronger defensively on most fights compared to HA.

To make it short, most damage bursts where you need to use a SW or HA you can predict.
Presuming you predict it you should have saved up holy power for it.
At 0% haste you will have 100% SotR uptime with SW presuming 5 HoPo at start for 18 seconds.
At 50% haste you will have it for 28 seconds.

Regular haste levels that is like 20~+ seconds, if you only had like 3 HoPo to start with lets say 20 seconds.

Most damage bursts that you need to use SW/HA is shorter than 20 seconds.

So even though HA lasts longer, the last like 20-30 seconds of HA falls into TDR, which is often useless on a majority of the fights, its only those initial 5-15 seconds that is interseting depending on how the fight is designed. Most fights the damage burst period is shortar than 15 seconds.

100% sotr uptime + 20% increased healing taken for 15 seconds
100% sotr uptime for 15 seconds

The first one is naturally better.



For me, HA is the niche ability.

Benefits of HA.

1. Extremely long damage burst fights. ( adds on Empress P2 for example )
2. Fights where you do not really need either SW or HA, though really horrible point. Since if you do not need either HA or SW, well, then it does not really matter.
3. Fights designed better for the HA 2 min CD. Some fights are naturally designed where you need a damage reduction every 2.5 minutes or something whcih makes HA better. A rare niche.
4. Quick reaction to something unpredictable. For some reason you need a cd NOW, because, well, some add went enrage or a healer died or whatever. If you are not prepared for the damage spike, HA is better for the first few seconds, making it a better oh shit button. Though I feel like Lay on Hands and ardent defender, not to mention bubble and shit is enough oh shit that we do not really need HA as oh shit.


SW was undeniable stronger in almost every aspect when we had 95s, and later 65s CD reduction, but we do not have that anymore.

Will try to make a more extensive 'debate article' over all talents, their uses and more in-depth reasoning later.

[Tossy]

I understand your reasoning, but i also feel that in the situations where the prolonged ShoTR uptime falls into TDR, 20% additional healing isn't necessarily more attractive for the same reasons we choose sacred shield over eternal flame. Absorbing (or in this case mitigating) damage, instead of outhealing it, either by yourself or through your healers, is always better no matter the damage intake. This of course assumes the damage is physical, where in a scenario where it's not, the effect from HA (after the predictable burst that you might've used it for) can be completely useless while the extra healing that might still be active from SW is much more useful. And also, i feel that damage intake on a lot of different fights can be of more volatile nature than you describe, but that's a discussion for whenever you, or me or someone else, want to make a tidy list of different encounters and respective recommended talent choices.

Why i feel this is worth bringing up again is more or less because of the scaling of the two other abilities that's not as apparent with SW, especially when it comes to DPS, so at some point it will lag behind naturally because of this when the defensive benefits are either a) not overwhelmingly better or b) perhaps situational. I'm mostly thinking about DiPurp and at what point it can almost be reliable. It can never be 100% reliable, but that can likely always be covered by a regular cooldown..