1. #1461
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Pressing F5 on the paladin forum.

    YAY NEW POST IN THE PROTECTION PALADIN THREAD! Maybe something to discuss?

    Read your post.

    Instantly sad panda.

    Holy, Righteous, Sacred


    That's what tanking bats does to your DPS

    Happy now?

    (I'm the prot pally in third place)
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    Tanking with the Blessing of Kings - The TankSpot Guide to the Protection Paladin - Updated for Patch 5.4!

  2. #1462
    Hey cool, I'm 12th and I didn't try.

  3. #1463
    DK intruder here. Finally gonna get my Paladin to 90, and since they messed with that one ability, was double checking that the stat priorities are still Hit(7.5)>Exp(15)>Haste= Mast>Avoidance
    Call to arms, the trumpets sound
    Hand puppets storm the base, flags up now cannons rage
    All clowns head for the rear, slingshots fire to the air
    Toy horses start the charge, Robot chessmen standing guard
    Crossfire to the marionettes, Slip into the edge of death...

  4. #1464
    Yes, that would be the general stat prio.


    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    So, to reiterate:

    Follow the stat priority posted if you are raiding. The guide is actually a guide, it does tell you the best way forward and it gets updated quickly whenever something changes so it's rarely out of date.

    @Fhi - told you
    Last edited by Firefly33; 2013-03-12 at 08:29 AM.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  5. #1465
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    (I'm the prot pally in third place)
    I'm in 5th! I was the overall 2nd before you came along :P



  6. #1466
    Right now I'm using my own good judgement to gem & enchant and I'm using ReforgeLite to reforge. But has anyone had any luck with AskMrRobot? I've heard it will give you the absolute best optimization so I've been trying to get it to work but all it does is tell me to lose 4% haste to increase my health along with put me 0.2% over both the Hit and Expertise cap. Obviously I'm not going to do that, but I don't understand why it isn't working. The stat priority says Hit > Expertise > Haste > Stamina > Mastery but it seems like it's putting Stamina first. I checked the stat weights and they're exactly what Theck posted on his blog for 5.2.

    Odd.

  7. #1467
    AskMrRobot do what you tell it to do. Check your stat weights. Though I would advice not to use stat weights for paladin gearing, use your brain instead.

    Also, I have no idea what stat weights Theck use, but I think Theck use a stamina > haste philosophy.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  8. #1468
    Theck's stat weights are the default stat weights I believe for either the haste or mastery control groups.



  9. #1469
    If you want to use Askmrrobot effectively, I explain exactly what to do here --

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post18877857

    To kind of update that message to current options/times on Askmrrobot, select your gearing strategy and ignore what it says to do for gems and enchants. Decide what your strategy for gems is going to be (based on whether you want some stamina in gems or just secondaries). Lock all your gems and enchants and save your profile.

    Now tweak gems around until you get closest to 7.5% hit / 15% exp. If you're into "control haste", then haste enchants to gloves and boots versus hit and expertise respectively is another lever that you can use to stumble on an optimization. Secondary stats are completely fungible. It doesn't matter whether you're putting for example straight expertise in red or expertise/hit. All that does is shift around what the reforges are going to be to compensate. Your best overall solution has nothing to do with arbitrarily maximizing some bogus "score", it will come from wasting the least stats by minimizing how far above 7.5%/15% you shoot.

    If you're not doing a "control" gearing strategy (which is pretty much unheard of for any serious content anyway), then you don't need any computational tool anyway because there are no caps that you are working around.

  10. #1470
    Old God MerinPally's Avatar
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    So, me and my girlfriend just broke up. I did deserve it but yeah, so much for sleeping tonight.

    Was 3 of my friends here at unis birthdays yesterday, surprising really considering there's like 15 of us in this close group. Anyway one of the girls whos birthday it was had her friend down from home, and when she came last time in November we almost had a bit of a thing... anyway we both moved on and got into relationships and then we both cheated on our respective boyfriends/girlfriends last night as it was the first time we saw each other since November. Great.

    Can't say I didn't deserve it but ffffuuuuu... definitely wasn't worth it :/

    Oh and not sorry to Firefly for making this pop up in notifications and it's not paladin related. Ahahahaha.
    Last edited by MerinPally; 2013-03-13 at 11:53 PM.

  11. #1471
    This is paladin related.

    And on topic, that sucks for you! As you said, not undeserved but not worth it!
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  12. #1472
    Is it worth it to try and get the Prot paladin T15 4-set for a haste build?

    The 2-set seems like it is worth it, since the neither the helm nor the shoulders have avoidance. The leggings and gloves however seem like less favorable since they have avoidance. The chest looks like it should be avoided since it has dodge and parry.

    So should I be going for a non set or ret set pants/gloves or should I get the prot ones for the 4-set?

  13. #1473
    Quote Originally Posted by FpicEail View Post
    Is it worth it to try and get the Prot paladin T15 4-set for a haste build?

    The 2-set seems like it is worth it, since the neither the helm nor the shoulders have avoidance. The leggings and gloves however seem like less favorable since they have avoidance. The chest looks like it should be avoided since it has dodge and parry.

    So should I be going for a non set or ret set pants/gloves or should I get the prot ones for the 4-set?
    I'd get prot 2set (helm/shoulders) and everything else go for ret. (4set seems so so)

  14. #1474
    FYI, there's no buff or anything telling you how long is left on the 2P bonus. Even checking the combatlog, there's no buff or anything that can be shown that we gain.
    Last edited by Promdates; 2013-03-14 at 07:56 AM.



  15. #1475
    Quote Originally Posted by promdate View Post
    FYI, there's no buff or anything telling you how long is left on the 2P bonus. Even checking the combatlog, there's no buff or anything that can be shown that we gain.
    I was able to make a weak aura to track it. A buff does pop up as being gained on MSBT so I was able to figure out the name of the buff.

    The buff is called "Shield of glory". Kinda annoying that it doesn't show up as a buff on ElvUI though. Only was able to find it because of MSBT.

    dmdbcaGlvuVwf0CrIzJ42uP2jQSxYUL0(vf)uf6Va1VfnuvIbRknCK0Xa15KWcvbwkQswmQIwUspuLQNs5XuLNd4Bu vtvWKrPPd1frvQddKNHIRlrBKkAAqAZkA7Ok8rvsJtv5ZqCAfgjQQwMqJwfz8OQCsQKBrfUgsDEvvBtLYWa5YsTGvq 2qMRkU3jiVMIlVScqXO2ecy(tYp4dinaWOICCEztC7HhzvgGm4ZON9pxiZTmwzSkiZlj5QGWYM52iBwwzVNKCvqCOY jnkekte6dfMHb1)Jwth00clJNG8oezZYk79KKRcIdworPJWXBqFqrg)c)IOMoOzexuorPJWXBqFqrg)c)IOMoOzehJ CIshHJ3G(GIm(f(frnDqZiouXbjSm8oqq6vbzvqUBafehSm70OjSpV5859kj3FHfwgjbXQGSnjTcYCxsWdfewyHLnZ Tr2SSYgA(WLBlZO2ecaLl86yG33dGHJFY2gzK1Wp1wg1nr2gaa38Hl3w2GvMDA0e2N3C(8ELK7VSAP7Woqq6fqCWcl dKcYStJMW(8MZN3RKC)L5QI7DcYRP4YlRaumQnHaM)K8d(asdamQihNx2e3E4rwfwgpehmkeKWsa

    There's a weak aura string for the WA I made to track it. Don't know if you can track it as a progress icon, I chose to do it as a progress texture because that's how I prefer to track things.

    Still haven't actually decided how to play around with this 2pc though. doesn't seem worth it to try to keep it up over SoTR.
    Last edited by britishbubba; 2013-03-14 at 12:13 PM.

  16. #1476
    Quote Originally Posted by britishbubba View Post
    Still haven't actually decided how to play around with this 2pc though. doesn't seem worth it to try to keep it up over SoTR.
    Ofc it is not worth to keep up over SotR. It is not reliable, SotR is.

    It got 2 uses.

    1. When you actually use a WoG, it makes it less shitty.

    2. On a fight where you take predictable huge magic damage nukes, like tsulongs/elegons breath last tier.
    If you use a WoG on those situations to top yourself off, it will lower the physical damage taken afterwards making it less dangerous to die from a magic damage + punch to the face combo.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  17. #1477
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Ofc it is not worth to keep up over SotR. It is not reliable, SotR is.

    It got 2 uses.

    1. When you actually use a WoG, it makes it less shitty.

    2. On a fight where you take predictable huge magic damage nukes, like tsulongs/elegons breath last tier.
    If you use a WoG on those situations to top yourself off, it will lower the physical damage taken afterwards making it less dangerous to die from a magic damage + punch to the face combo.
    Yeah the only time this week I actually found myself consciously choosing to bank HP in order to throw out a WoG was on maegera.

    Although the 40% bonus block is certainly interesting when tanking adds. Every SoTR becomes a 3stack albaster shield ^.^

    I do have to wonder though, what's your opinion on the 4pc? I ended up passing on teir shoulders tonight because I felt other people getting their 2pc would be better than me getting my 4pc since I'm not actually 100% certain on how the 4pc functions. do I have to take 20% in one hit? or is it for every 20% of my health post mitigation I take while DP is up, I gain a HP? And even then, is that really good in any scenario?
    Last edited by britishbubba; 2013-03-14 at 12:26 PM.

  18. #1478
    Old God MerinPally's Avatar
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    The maths behind it was done and it was determined to not be worth keeping it up. Think that was done shortly after the bonus was announced

  19. #1479
    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    The maths behind it was done and it was determined to not be worth keeping it up. Think that was done shortly after the bonus was announced
    The problem with the "math" is the math only account for the standard physical damage melee hits on you.
    A quick glance on my logs from yesterday show that only 55% of the damage was physical melee hits. What about the other 45% of the damage?

    This is why a lot of the paladin math falls short, it is just to hard to analyze every situations since ever boss fight is unique. All we can do is educated guesses on what is generally the best.


    Edit: To support myself with some symbolic images so people can relate.
    (Sorry for posting images but feel like it is the best way to get point through)


    Common Tanking Theorycrafting = How do we deal with these situations? (Doesnt matter who represent you and the boss)
    http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5...k830o1_500.gif


    My (simplified) Idea of Tanking Theorycrafting = How do we deal with these situations? (You are the brown guy, the boss is the blue guy)
    http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ln...sz95o1_500.gif

    For example in that last situation, stacking more mastery would help you significantly more than any other stat. Presuming that the attack is lethal and you actually need more survivability. And the 2p would not help you at all since the attack is not blockable.

    Whereas in that first situation, is what we see in thecks theorycrafting where haste shined in T14 and now still good but a bit worse than the other stats in the defensive stats. Also the same reason why Hit and Expertise is so valuable.
    (As we can clearly see in the second image, the tank misses his crusader strike on the boss so he is not able to use SotR in time for the punch because he got no holy power right?)
    However that is almost irrelevant information, as it is not these situations that will kill us, it can be a good pointer for some niche fights, and it is good to know, but you should not base your gearing on it.
    In that first situation the 2p is not that bad either, actually decent.
    Last edited by Firefly33; 2013-03-14 at 12:57 PM.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  20. #1480
    Old God MerinPally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    The problem with the "math" is the math only account for the standard physical damage melee hits on you.
    A quick glance on my logs from yesterday show that only 55% of the damage was physical melee hits. What about the other 45% of the damage?

    This is why a lot of the paladin math falls short, it is just to hard to analyze every situations since ever boss fight is unique. All we can do is educated guesses on what is generally the best.
    Unlike warriors especially and I don't know enough about other tanks (I'm rusty as it is, more so on other tanks) we have no direct way to stop magic damage - Shield Barrier works for them but blearh yeah, we just have to take it then reheal. I'm obviously not including sacred shield because I cba to trawl through those bits this early and then DP is a CD.

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