1. #2001
    Quote Originally Posted by Nillo View Post
    On the topic of nonlinear rppm and haste:
    Does anyone have any input on whether the agi trinket from primordius is good for prot?
    Haste procs are meh, you want static Haste, better off with the Str proc trinkets

  2. #2002
    Ok Noob question here, just logged in to the kingslayer pally for the first time since we were farming Icrcrown. Trying out the pally (and monk as well). I just wanted to know, why is HOTR not in the rotation? Do we not weakening blows on enemies? THanks in advance.
    Last edited by fled; 2013-04-29 at 05:07 PM.

  3. #2003
    HotR is replaced by CS, as it hits harder, for ST tanking. HotR should be used to keep up WB, but that is a given; feel free to work it in every <30 seconds, unless your co-tank puts it up passively (pretty much every class but protpal).

    HotR is still the go-to for MT tanking, pulling ahead on damage overall at 3+ targets (IIRC). But, honestly, using at 2+ is fine as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  4. #2004
    One thing to remember is that unless i remember things wrong is that it hits the main target for less dmg than the other ones hit by cleave component.
    And personally i find it to be fairly meh and not worth using unless there's 4(or more) targets.

  5. #2005
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    HotR is replaced by CS, as it hits harder, for ST tanking. HotR should be used to keep up WB, but that is a given; feel free to work it in every <30 seconds, unless your co-tank puts it up passively (pretty much every class but protpal).
    that's not true.

    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=115798#comments:id=1706463

    only DKs get it automatically through blood plague. all 4 other tanks need to use an AoE skill solely for applying it, even on single target. it's just how tanking works at the moment. and warriors, DKs and druids also don't get more from it if they cast it more than is needed to apply weakened blows or in the case of druids to apply their DoT. monks get more chi from it so they use it on CD.
    Because I want to say this every single day but don't want it to get a drag:
    1) The ingame store will only sell timesaver items. It won't affect balance.
    2) No, getting to 100 in half the time isn't pay2win. raids don't start until the second week, everyone has time to get there.
    4) getting charms faster is also not pay2win. getting those is easy, but not everyone has the time or want for dailies.

  6. #2006
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrooge McDuck View Post
    that's not true.

    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=115798#comments:id=1706463

    only DKs get it automatically through blood plague. all 4 other tanks need to use an AoE skill solely for applying it, even on single target. it's just how tanking works at the moment. and warriors, DKs and druids also don't get more from it if they cast it more than is needed to apply weakened blows or in the case of druids to apply their DoT. monks get more chi from it so they use it on CD.
    Not really sure what you're saying here, as you start off saying that "no, all tanks have to do it and it sucks for them" then end up saying "well 3 of the 5 tanks really kinda do it passively"

    Keg Smash is the Monks hardest hitting ability, best chi generator, and used on cooldown.
    Thrash is considered rotational and part of the Guardian priority to keep the DOT up.
    DK already mentioned, but is passive 100%.

    T-clap for warrior's I'll admit is not ideal, as it costs rage that could otherwise go to something else. So yes, if your OT is a warrior, you should be using HotR every 30 sec. If your OT is anything else, you can skip it.
    Last edited by Nairobi; 2013-04-30 at 02:01 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  7. #2007
    The Lightbringer Mokoshne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xs View Post
    Haste procs are meh, you want static Haste, better off with the Str proc trinkets
    is this considered the norm? as i may have to change things up...
    My weekly podcast can be downloaded here this week Can a guy and a girl ever have a truly platonic friendship?

  8. #2008
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Not really sure what you're saying here, as you start off saying that "no, all tanks have to do it and it sucks for them" then end up saying "well 3 of the 5 tanks really kinda do it passively"

    Keg Smash is the Monks hardest hitting ability, best chi generator, and used on cooldown.
    Thrash is considered rotational and part of the Guardian priority to keep the DOT up.
    DK already mentioned, but is passive 100%.

    T-clap for warrior's I'll admit is not ideal, as it costs rage that could otherwise go to something else. So yes, if your OT is a warrior, you should be using HotR every 30 sec. If your OT is anything else, you can skip it.
    I don't think T-clap costs rage for prots anymore. Pretty sure it's just a 6 second CD now. would hop on my warrior to check, but damn Tuesday maintenance.

    EDIT: http://www.wowhead.com/spell=29144 < Reduces the cost of T-clap by 100% for prot. Still not really automatic for warriors since it's usually just better to spam Devastate to reset the CD on Shield slam, but unlike Paladins, you're not really trying off something like CS for HoTR since T-clap doesn't share a CD with anything. That and if there's less than like a 2 second CD on SS you might as well T-clap since devastate resetting the CD on SS would be kinda pointless when it would be off CD next GCD anyway.
    Last edited by britishbubba; 2013-04-30 at 03:13 PM.

  9. #2009
    Quote Originally Posted by Mokoshne View Post
    is this considered the norm? as i may have to change things up...
    Yes, all things equal, it's far better to have static haste with a STR proc than STR with a Haste proc (for example). If you could have something like Haste with a Haste proc (Yo dawg...) then maybe, but as the last item like that was in Borean Tundra quest rewards, it's safe to ignore.

    Quote Originally Posted by britishbubba View Post
    I don't think T-clap costs rage for prots anymore. Pretty sure it's just a 6 second CD now. would hop on my warrior to check, but damn Tuesday maintenance.
    You may be right, I know it's changed a lot. I thought that it GAVE rage, frankly. But in looking at the wowhead tooltip it still listed it as 20 rage to use.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  10. #2010
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Yes, all things equal, it's far better to have static haste with a STR proc than STR with a Haste proc (for example). If you could have something like Haste with a Haste proc (Yo dawg...) then maybe, but as the last item like that was in Borean Tundra quest rewards, it's safe to ignore.
    Well I agree that having procs that work by the old 10 sec duration , 45 sec icd model is hardly optimal because the uptimes would have to align with high damage taken, but with a trinket like the agi one from primordius the up/downtimes seem to mostly be in the 10sec area which in my opinion is consistent enough for it to be useful. What I was wondering is if the haste you gain from that proc would be enough to make up for the wasted agility at least if you compare it to some of the less useful trinkets.
    Armories:
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    Dk: Telare
    Warrior: Irlida

  11. #2011
    about the Weakened Blows
    if u have shaman dpsing same target, u don't need to maintain it yourself, as Earth Shock applies it. ofc it's always best to set up weak aura to track it.

  12. #2012
    Quote Originally Posted by Nillo View Post
    Well I agree that having procs that work by the old 10 sec duration , 45 sec icd model is hardly optimal because the uptimes would have to align with high damage taken, but with a trinket like the agi one from primordius the up/downtimes seem to mostly be in the 10sec area which in my opinion is consistent enough for it to be useful. What I was wondering is if the haste you gain from that proc would be enough to make up for the wasted agility at least if you compare it to some of the less useful trinkets.
    The agi primordius trink is really very, very lackluster. You should average around 1-1.5 stacks I believe based on the RPPM calcs done for specs designed to use it, meaning that you're essentially using a trinket that has a low amount of passive haste and zero other benefit. You'd be better served getting the SPA rep trinket and reforging to haste. The 10:45 procs are not as bad as you may think, and actually contribute more at low dmg intervals than high (unless you're talking about the parry from STR). However, even if you ARE talking about the parry, that is a "free" benefit from the STR, whereas tha agi trinket would give dodge to it's user but gives none to us.

    Obviously not everyone can pick and choose trinkets, and RNG is RNG with what drops/rolls, but all things equal I'd still use a LSFO over the agi trinket myself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  13. #2013
    sdfsdf.... finally back at a real computer and can have proper arguments, felt handicapped on my cellphone for 1 month, hard to get your arguments through haha
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  14. #2014
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    sdfsdf.... finally back at a real computer and can have proper arguments, felt handicapped on my cellphone for 1 month, hard to get your arguments through haha
    Go pop your head in the R&D forum. There's a thread you'll love. Bet you can guess which one...
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  15. #2015
    "Why have Prot palas not been nerfed?"

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-30 at 06:24 PM ----------

    Haha prefer constructive threads.

    Any OP with arguments like
    " pala will do so much healing hes basically a 3rd tank"

    doesnt seem worthwhile respondin too since whatever you say he will ignore it. I do agree though that paladins needs change, not nerfs specifically, would call it balancing. They have some niches that are too strong.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  16. #2016
    High Overlord Solarflair's Avatar
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    Hey guys just had a question and a concern here.
    I want to try a haste build, but I'm afraid I'm going to get trucked by bosses if I do.
    If I can make the hit cap, and expertise hard cap - how much damage intake am I going to notice if I switch from dodge/parry,etc. to haste primarily?

    I think the prospect of more Holy Power is exciting, but I don't want my healers to hate me.
    Any key pointers to running a haste build?

    Thanks

    #TeamHunter

  17. #2017
    The key point of haste build (as with any other build) is to maximize your effectiveness, that is, no dead time between GCDs and use as many GCDs as possible for HoPo generators, and use your SotR properly.

    Switchin from dodge/parry to haste you should notice nothing but benefits, so you have nothing to worry about. Haste vs sta/mastery is another tougher question.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  18. #2018
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Those contributions allow us to drop a healer (or gain a healer, depending on need) to alter strats or bypass a challenging part of the encounter, FAR more than any amount of stamina or avoidance ever could.
    Disclaimer: This is situational

    When my guild first did Garalon, we actually found that our biggest DPS boost was by having both tanks in tank spec. My druid co-tank would just get rocked in kitty, however I was survivable enough in ret & did nearly twice the damage.

    However it meant all the DPS ended up playing slightly more conservatively, because the healers were slightly more focused on the tanks... and the DPS loss from the real DPSers playing more conservatively was bigger than the extra ~50k dps I brought to the table playing as ret rather than prot.

    Now that fight was somewhat unusual in that there was such constant damage going out, but my point is that there are times when survival is the biggest dps gain.

    I agree with Nairobi's basic point, but always remember to look at the big picture about how you can contribute best to DPS. Sometimes gearing for survival so the healers can neglect you more is a good DPS boosting choice.


    Quote Originally Posted by Solarflair View Post
    Hey guys just had a question and a concern here.
    I want to try a haste build, but I'm afraid I'm going to get trucked by bosses if I do.
    If I can make the hit cap, and expertise hard cap - how much damage intake am I going to notice if I switch from dodge/parry,etc. to haste primarily?
    You will definitely see your DTPS average go up on logs. Don't expect an improvement there. You'll quite likely be taking an extra 5-10k average damage.

    On the other hand, if you're doing it right - pooling HoPow & spending it when your health is dipping or you're about to go over-cap - you'll likely feel much safer & your healers are likely to feel much more comfortable, because your damage intake becomes much more predictable. TBH you'd probably even see an improvement if you just used your holy power generators as much as possible & mindlessly spammed SotR at 3 HoPow, tho I wouldn't recommend that technique.

    If you're making the transition & want to smooth things in, I'd suggest going with settings closer to Askmrrobot's default haste settings. Keep your stamina value high, use at least one stam trinket. Keep hit & expertise cap to make it more predictable for yourself. It's the least-truckable version of the haste setup.

    Once you're more comfortable with the build, then you can start bleeding off the stamina in favour of a more pure haste setup (assuming you're still comfortable with your survival & want even more dps). I currently tend to use a setup that roughly corresponds to haste = stamina (1:1.01) on mr robot, although I swap things around with trinkets a lot. Others would take that even further.
    Last edited by lakhesis; 2013-04-30 at 08:53 PM.

  19. #2019
    High Overlord Solarflair's Avatar
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    Thank you both!

    #TeamHunter

  20. #2020
    @Nairobi

    I dared myself to a late night tired drunken abstinence reply in that thread, what could possibly go wrong right?
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

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