1. #2401
    so 2P makes Word of Glory a 2HP gain, every ~30 secs or smth, which is nice, but not amazing in my eyes
    4P seems like smth that doubles the duration of GoAK

  2. #2402
    Deleted
    Not amazing 2p but a decent bonus (like current 2p) if you get 2 pieces with good stats. Unless we have 4 pieces with mastery, exp, hit (how awesome would it be if it did have haste?) then I guess the 4p would be okay, but we'd probably have to take a load of dodge and parry crap for it, though it does seem cool for extreme damage phases.

  3. #2403
    Deleted
    That 2p is the most amazing thing I have seen. Hello 100% sotr uptime. Finally a good tier bonus.


    Edit: Seriously, omg, if that 2p makes it live. You are gonna be able to have like 110-120% uptime on SotR. Brb math.

  4. #2404
    I feel like they're pretty underwhelming but the 2P is nice. A LoH-like WoG followed up by a ShoR + 2 HoPo every ~40 sec is pretty powerful.

    4P seemed cool at first until I thought about it. Don't think I use GoAK enough to benefit much from this 4P.

    Hopefully they itemize our gear better in T16 so I can actually use tier pieces. I can see myself using 2P if there are some non-D/P tier pieces.

  5. #2405
    Even at a 2 HP gain it's not going to change the way we use WoG, much lie the 40% block now doesn't change it. Risking not having that oh shit WoG just isn't something I can see as smart. These bonus' leave a lot to be desired, imo. Well, unless we can get like 100% uptime on SoTR or soemthing haha, but that seems like something they would find a way to nerf. I dunno, can't wait to play with it either way.
    Last edited by Aceshigh; 2013-06-12 at 04:44 AM.

  6. #2406
    Deleted
    Guys. Tip. 1 HoPo WoG = effectively lowering the cost of SotR to 2.2 HoPo, 1.934 HoPo if you use DP. That is an SotR uptime increase of over 30%.

    That is because each SotR would generate 0.8 HoPo, making the cost 3-0.8=2.2. If you use DP, each SotR = 1.33 SotRs making the average SotR generating 1.066 HoPo.

    That 2p is AMAZING
    Last edited by mmoc4d8e5d065a; 2013-06-12 at 04:49 AM.

  7. #2407
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Guys. Tip. 1 HoPo WoG = effectively lowering the cost of SotR to 2.2 HoPo, 1.934 HoPo if you use DP. That is an SotR uptime increase of over 30%.

    That 2p is AMAZING
    What would be the best way to utilize this 2P then?

    Normal rotation until 5 stacks of Bastion, 1 HoPo WoG, profit?

  8. #2408
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by paulleedot View Post
    What would be the best way to utilize this 2P then?

    Normal rotation until 5 stacks of Bastion, 1 HoPo WoG, profit?
    If you are aiming for max SotR uptime yes.

    When you have 4 stacks of bastion
    At 3 HoPo use SotR - HoPo Generator - WoG - SotR

    alternatively, wait for 4 HoPo and use SotR - WoG - SotR quickly.

  9. #2409
    If your math is correct (and I assume it is), I can't imagine Blizzard would let this go live. We'll be seeing 80-90% ShoR uptimes....

  10. #2410

  11. #2411
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by paulleedot View Post
    If your math is correct (and I assume it is), I can't imagine Blizzard would let this go live. We'll be seeing 80-90% ShoR uptimes....
    Actually more.

    Did some napkin maths. At 50% haste (which is probably reasonable in the next tier of gear). You can have 75% uptime on SotR without talents and GC procs. Checking a full weeks clear, GC procs was about 7% of the holy power I generated on bosses. Lets scale that down and say it is 5% of the holy power than you gain. That means that with GC you should be seeing uptimes of 79%. Still, this is without talents!

    Okay, so now lets look at how this change effects DP. Getting a proc on the first SotR in the SotR - WoG - SotR spam, is essentially a wasted proc. A procs during the WoG and the second SotR is likely to cause you to overcap HoPo aswell. So, this lowers the relative value of DP a bit.

    Before you had 5 proc opportunities in 15 HoPo. Now you got 5 in 16 HoPo, with one of them probably wating 1-2 HoPo.

    Before DP was basically a 1.33% increase in effective uptime, think it is pretty safe to say that it is about 1.3%.

    Which would put the uptime at 50% haste at about 102%. Now, there is another thing, about the DP procs that we have to remember. Each DP proc also generates 0.8 HoPo through WoG. Now this value is course lower as we mentioned earlier, some DP procs will cause all gained HoPo to be wasted. So lets say each DP proc gives 0.5-0.6 HoPo in average.

    During a 10 minute fight, you would have about 158 SotR and 31 WoG counting GC procs in, which would be about 62 GC procs, which would generate another 30-39 HoPo, which in turn would turn into 15-20 SotRs, or another 45-60. Concluding the total number of SotRs on that fight to between 235-240. Now this is in candy land where everything works in your favor. So lets say 210-260 SotRs in a 10 minute fight depending on luck This is still 105-130% uptime.

    With that 4p, 100% uptime will for sure be obtainable.

  12. #2412
    They're going to have to make less items with haste attractive to us. I'm already pushing close to 18k, and the max I can figure I could achieve this tier would be almost 19k (43%) I would just need another 3k-ish to make 50%.

    The 2p is good, the 4p looks mediocre. A HOT when you use GoAK?

  13. #2413
    Herald of the Titans xebtria's Avatar
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    Guys.
    Why do we take haste again? I think we take it for increasing uptime of SotR, right?
    If the 2pc bonus makes us able to achieve a way higher uptime of SotR - if we can play it correctly^^ - why the hell would we even need haste? if firefly is roughly correct with his math, I'm pretty sure there won't be a problem to drop a few k of haste. maybe starting with the 4 tier items for the bonus, plus replacing all haste gems with mastery or stamina.
    if doing this still qualifies for 100% uptime of sotr, mastery becomes even stronger. at least for physical damage. holy cow.

    edit:
    for the stats on the tier piece:

    chest - dodge parry
    hands - dodge expertise
    legs - parry hit
    head - expertise mastery
    shoulders - hit mastery

    so, offset chest it is, and if you are only going for 2 piece, you take head n shoulders.
    Last edited by xebtria; 2013-06-12 at 08:00 AM.

  14. #2414
    Deleted
    Haste still increases your SS, SoI and DPS.

    There is a fair amount of 10 man tanks that prefer critical strike over a lot of the other stats. Crit provides less dps than haste and less survivability increase even at 100% sotr uptime. The value of haste an offensive stat is still there and it still provides a non-trivial survivability increase. Even with above 100% uptime on SotR, I would still go for 50% haste.

  15. #2415
    Quote Originally Posted by xebtria View Post
    Guys.
    Why do we take haste again? I think we take it for increasing uptime of SotR, right?
    Because you're so OP that you don't really need to worry about survival, so you just stack dps stats. Haste gives better survival than crit, as a consolation prize, so you just favor that because why not?

    Grumble grumble grumble.

    But really, it is primarily for the dps. I think it's been shown pretty conclusively that other stats are better with smoothing and TDR, last I checked. Then again, 100% uptime on Shield Wall is pretty smooth...

  16. #2416
    2pc t15 + 16 might be an interesting combo.
    Too bad it looks like they're going to keep putting lots and lots of dodge/parry on set items /:

  17. #2417
    We don't want a 4p that allows us to get 100% uptime on SoTR to go live. IF this 4 piece makes it live blizzard will nerf SoTR. We've seen it time and time again throughout WoW's history, the root cause of the problem doesn't get nerfed, the effect it has does. I'll call it now, if this makes it live a couple weeks into the patch we'll have a SoTR nerf.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-12 at 06:05 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiqjaq View Post
    Because you're so OP that you don't really need to worry about survival, so you just stack dps stats. Haste gives better survival than crit, as a consolation prize, so you just favor that because why not?

    Grumble grumble grumble.

    But really, it is primarily for the dps. I think it's been shown pretty conclusively that other stats are better with smoothing and TDR, last I checked. Then again, 100% uptime on Shield Wall is pretty smooth...
    The other ones are better at reducing overall dmg and large spikes, haste is better for smoothing.

  18. #2418
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Aceshigh View Post
    The other ones are better at reducing overall dmg and large spikes, haste is better for smoothing.
    Haste is better at smoothening a static damage in-take (no boss ever). Stamina is better for smoothening an unpredictable dynamic damage in-take and dynamic magic damage in-take. Mastery is better as smoothening predictable dynamic melee damage in-take.


    Quote Originally Posted by Aceshigh View Post
    We don't want a 4p that allows us to get 100% uptime on SoTR to go live. IF this 4 piece makes it live blizzard will nerf SoTR. We've seen it time and time again throughout WoW's history, the root cause of the problem doesn't get nerfed, the effect it has does. I'll call it now, if this makes it live a couple weeks into the patch we'll have a SoTR nerf.
    While this is possible, maintaining 100% uptime will still be very hard. Only the top 1-2% of raiding paladins will be able to do it. Those players that are now ranking consistantly in the top 100's. It is not a free 100% uptime exactly. Do not really think blizzard is gonna do some massive change to SotR mid 5.4
    Maybe a small nerf in 5.5 but we can live with that.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-12 at 09:32 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Nillo View Post
    2pc t15 + 16 might be an interesting combo.
    Too bad it looks like they're going to keep putting lots and lots of dodge/parry on set items /:
    Stats on T15 still sucks, so not even a question for me about preferring T16 off-set/ret pieces.
    I think the T10 2p is more interesting than the T15 2p.

  19. #2419
    So long as you have ShoR active for the boss attacks, you can let it drop between them and still have 100% effective uptime, even if you don't have 100% absolute uptime.

  20. #2420
    Deleted
    Still, anyone that is skilled enough to track boss swing timers and time SotR accordingly with 100% success is probably good enough to have 100% uptime on SotR aswell with T15 2p.

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