1. #2601
    Quote Originally Posted by paulleedot View Post
    I don't think they'd be able to do something like that because it essentially handicaps anyone who isn't using the 4P.
    This is my saving thought as well. If we see anything nerfed, it will be the 4pc, since a ~2sec ShotR is going to be REALLY hard to manage properly for all but the top 10% of players, esp so with uptimes of only 60-75% (without 4pc), which will become 40-50% if that was the change. Or, further reduction of the power of ShotR would bring it down to like, what, 15% reduction? At that point, most of the lower quartiles of players will not even see it as worth casting.

    So, thank those nubs and hug the LFR-Heroes, ShotR should be safe!

    What is more likely would be something catastrophicly lame, like "Casting Word of Glory now refunds 1 Holy Power. Period." But then, I'd not feel bad about ignoring tier (again), so it's not all bad news.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  2. #2602
    The only thing I can think of is them massively nerfing base mastery and increasing the value of mastery to compensate - this way you'll have to invest into some mastery rather than going all haste.

  3. #2603
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Nillo View Post
    The only thing I can think of is them massively nerfing base mastery and increasing the value of mastery to compensate - this way you'll have to invest into some mastery rather than going all haste.
    NEVER! I WILL NEVER SERVE YOU MASTERY!

    I really do not expect anything gamebreaking to change. In all seirousness, only the top 2% of the raiding paladin population will be able to keep this up, it is the last tier of the expansion, they are probably holding back the big changes for the next expac. Would not make sense to drastically alter how the class works now.

  4. #2604
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    NEVER! I WILL NEVER SERVE YOU MASTERY!

    I really do not expect anything gamebreaking to change. In all seirousness, only the top 2% of the raiding paladin population will be able to keep this up, it is the last tier of the expansion, they are probably holding back the big changes for the next expac. Would not make sense to drastically alter how the class works now.
    Do you think the current Haste/Control build will be dismantled come next expansion? It seems that the devs want us to choose dodge/parry over more "offensive" stats like haste (judging from the amount of D/P on our tier sets)...but that said, I don't understand why they introduced Sanctity of Battle for Prot. It seems like a huge oversight on their part not to expect Haste-focused builds by giving us said passive.

  5. #2605
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by paulleedot View Post
    Do you think the current Haste/Control build will be dismantled come next expansion? It seems that the devs want us to choose dodge/parry over more "offensive" stats like haste (judging from the amount of D/P on our tier sets)...but that said, I don't understand why they introduced Sanctity of Battle for Prot. It seems like a huge oversight on their part not to expect Haste-focused builds by giving us said passive.
    To be honest I am not sure which way they will take. What I am fairly sure about is that they will either make sure all tanks have use for haste/crit or none. Dont think we will see the current design when paladins are the only strength tank that want "dps" stats.

    I wish that they would make it so all tanks use the dps gear, which blizzard seems to have gotten a lot of positive feedback from paladins about. Though you never know blizzard. I foresee them either pulling the plug or going all in.

  6. #2606
    Deleted
    Active mitigation is certainly here to stay. The actual mechanics of how it works will inevitably go through changes in the next expansion.

    That being said the way pally tanks interact with haste has been a resounding success (though I'm guessing more by luck then actual design -don't think they foresaw the haste stacking direction the community took when we started in MoP). It's never been as fun, which is surely a good direction to take.

    I think they need to bring the other tank class mechanics in line with pallies (and monks), more than changing us.

  7. #2607
    I think they'll go the route of all tanks wanting "DPS" stats and just eliminate the whole dodge/parry. They have said this expansion they're not sure what role those stats server anymore and I think they've realized that the haste/crit route of active tanking is something that a lot of players are enjoying; I have never had as much fun tanking on my Paladin as I do now. I think that we'll see the elimination of traditional tank stats with the next expansion and I'm ok with that.

  8. #2608
    Deleted
    I am rather sure Ghostcrawler said in some dev blog that they were really happy with how paladins worked out and they would like the other tank to function similarly, or something along those lines.

  9. #2609
    That makes sense, since DK/Warrior are getting an ability that increases their critical strike % whenever they dodge/parry. So they build the "traditional" D/P/M items and gain crit, while we continue to go H/M.

  10. #2610
    Deleted
    That is a bandaid fix however to try to prevent paladins/monks/druids dps scaling to well with gear. That change does not make dks/warriors prefer dps stats, it just makes their dps scale with defensive stats so they dont fall so far behind.

  11. #2611
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    That is a bandaid fix however to try to prevent paladins/monks/druids dps scaling to well with gear. That change does not make dks/warriors prefer dps stats, it just makes their dps scale with defensive stats so they dont fall so far behind.
    Yeah but the fact that they put that in as a fix specifically, doing x defensive thing gives you crit, tells me that they've got DPS stats on their minds for tanks. In the past they would have messed with how their abilities scaled instead of a fix like this. Makes me hopeful for next expac.

  12. #2612
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Aceshigh View Post
    Yeah but the fact that they put that in as a fix specifically, doing x defensive thing gives you crit, tells me that they've got DPS stats on their minds for tanks. In the past they would have messed with how their abilities scaled instead of a fix like this. Makes me hopeful for next expac.
    What bothers me is that they chose the defensive stats -> offense route rather than the offensive stats -> defense route. It makes me question if they actually want warriors/dks/paladin to use offensive stats in the next expansion.

  13. #2613
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    What bothers me is that they chose the defensive stats -> offense route rather than the offensive stats -> defense route. It makes me question if they actually want warriors/dks/paladin to use offensive stats in the next expansion.
    Guess that's just a bandaid fix for now... and well hopefully they decide to go all the way through with merging avoidance/dps stats for the next addon.
    Sadly it doesn't work for DKs at all and seems to be on the mehish side for warriors (although they get some cool crit scaling)
    Last edited by Nillo; 2013-06-25 at 11:53 PM.

  14. #2614
    Quote Originally Posted by rawhammer View Post
    Active mitigation is certainly here to stay. The actual mechanics of how it works will inevitably go through changes in the next expansion.

    That being said the way pally tanks interact with haste has been a resounding success (though I'm guessing more by luck then actual design -don't think they foresaw the haste stacking direction the community took when we started in MoP). It's never been as fun, which is surely a good direction to take.

    I think they need to bring the other tank class mechanics in line with pallies (and monks), more than changing us.
    Exactly...put them at our level, not vice versa.

    Quote Originally Posted by paulleedot View Post
    Do you think the current Haste/Control build will be dismantled come next expansion? It seems that the devs want us to choose dodge/parry over more "offensive" stats like haste (judging from the amount of D/P on our tier sets)...but that said, I don't understand why they introduced Sanctity of Battle for Prot. It seems like a huge oversight on their part not to expect Haste-focused builds by giving us said passive.
    I like SotR, and I like that it's not 100% coverage. That's skilless. 40-60%, somewhere in there, that feels about right. You're rewarded for having fast reflexes + keybinds (considerable uptime over say 20-30% from a clicker) but it's not so high that you're invincible. When's the last time you ever died when you had SotR up (in normal circumstances)? You also have to worry about timing it correctly, not just spam it mindlessly or as Theck points out macro it to every single ability you have. They've got to do something with Haste scaling and SoB, irrespective of the T16 4p.

    SotR is PERFECT for Blizzard's new model on tanking. Without it and other AM abilities they cannot have Snapping Bite or Triple Puncture. There aren't enough CDs available for it. So they can't dismantle SotR unless they want to bring us back to being no more than dumb meatshields. Lowering the time on its coverage to 1-2.5s will hurt everyone, yes, but it'll affect bad/average players the most.

  15. #2615
    Quote Originally Posted by promdate View Post
    That makes sense, since DK/Warrior are getting an ability that increases their critical strike % whenever they dodge/parry. So they build the "traditional" D/P/M items and gain crit, while we continue to go H/M.
    I think the main reason they did this is because changing two specs gearing priorities just for the final tier would be a total kick in the nuts, and balancing them to work fine with both is far too difficult if they're just going to overhaul it in a few months anyway

  16. #2616
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by trystero View Post
    40-60%, somewhere in there, that feels about right. You're rewarded for having fast reflexes + keybinds (considerable uptime over say 20-30% from a clicker) but it's not so high that you're invincible.
    /sigh. I don't think I lose 20-30% uptime by clicking :/
    Sorry, pet peeve of mine!

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-26 at 07:46 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Xs View Post
    I think the main reason they did this is because changing two specs gearing priorities just for the final tier would be a total kick in the nuts, and balancing them to work fine with both is far too difficult if they're just going to overhaul it in a few months anyway
    Yup, totally agree with this. They are not going to change any classes mechanics now, a big revamp will ofc come next exp.

    One area I think they do need to tweek pallies though is with wog. In its current form it is not really used at all, they've tried to make it more appealing through set bonuses, but that's not really worked out due to shitty gear itemisation on tier this exp.

  17. #2617
    Herald of the Titans xebtria's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Bloody ol' Germany
    Posts
    2,957
    Quote Originally Posted by Nillo View Post
    The only thing I can think of is them massively nerfing base mastery and increasing the value of mastery to compensate - this way you'll have to invest into some mastery rather than going all haste.
    I don't see how they ever can fix a problem (in that case: haste. which is no problem to begin with, though) with changing something else (mastery).
    IF ANYTHING, I could see them making haste effected by DR, just as they did with mastery so you can't reach "unhittable" anymore...

    but let's not talk about worst case scenarios here....

  18. #2618
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by xebtria View Post
    I don't see how they ever can fix a problem (in that case: haste. which is no problem to begin with, though) with changing something else (mastery).
    IF ANYTHING, I could see them making haste effected by DR, just as they did with mastery so you can't reach "unhittable" anymore...

    but let's not talk about worst case scenarios here....
    The problem here is that the problem is not with haste, it is how tanking is designed in this expansion. As long as tank survivability is not a problem (which it isnt atleast in 10 man), dps becomes the priority. Shifting weight out from haste would just cause a lot of tanks to pick up crit instead.

  19. #2619
    Herald of the Titans xebtria's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Bloody ol' Germany
    Posts
    2,957
    basically what I said. if there is a problem, then it is with haste. but then again, why do people take haste? and then it's what you said. active mitigation. I never understood why they changed it to active mitigation and then they put bosses with FOUR DROPS which are dodge/parry in there. dodge/parry items are pretty much the one thing that is furthest away from "active" and "mitigation".

    but yes. due to the system, haste is the best thing that can be done to a prot paladin. IF they are gonna change anything but haste, nothing will change. if they change haste, people will just move over to the next thing. and that won't be dodge or parry.

  20. #2620
    Deleted
    What I enjoy the most about the 4p is that if it sticks, it removes all reason to use HA. I heavily dislike HA and has never used it this expansion since I feel it is very weak compared to both alternatives. If this 4p goes live, it basically kills the only niche use HA has. Havent done the math on SW yet, but possible we will see the return of SW to be the primary defensive T5 talent and DP being the offensive one.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •