1. #3101
    Quote Originally Posted by Drummerboy View Post
    So keep a 483?

    Meanwhile when you see a trade pug raid that says minimum 500 ilvl you don't get to raid? Not practical in a video game.
    Who said anything about a 483?

    Or anything about trade chat?

    Seriously, wtf are you on about?

    I feel like we need to make a "Drummerboy random musings" thread, where you can discuss whatever it is you're trying to hash out in a safe, controlled environment. Put it in some other forum, where you're not cluttering up the ADVICE thread with what can only be described with as, at best, bad advice, and at worst, some sort of schizophrenic dancing around any actual coherent discussion.
    Last edited by Nairobi; 2013-07-18 at 04:40 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  2. #3102
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Who said anything about a 483?

    Or anything about trade chat?

    Seriously, wtf are you on about?
    Again you don't have the big picture...

    A person asked if they should just stay ret for loot spec in ToT LFR. Based on that I can make these assumptions:

    1. They are likely geared from the previous LFR. IE they are in 483 or less
    2. They don't have a regular raiding team or might be just starting.
    3. Based on the status of 2 they may be more reliant on pugging until they can fill a slot in a team.

    Though likelihood of these answers are not 100% they can probably cover a very high percentage of those who would ask that question. So given this is it better to:
    A. Tell them to lock into BiS items.
    B. Give them options that will help their toon possibly find more options than gearing from ToT LFR.

    This is why I gave more options than helmet from a, shield from b, neck from c, etc.

  3. #3103
    Quote Originally Posted by promdate View Post
    So, just did a 2-3 pull of Dark Animus tonight for our first heroic kill on 25H. Just want to say that we figured out how to make the fight a joke for us. http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...1099#Promdates It helps to have 700k vengeance My first #2 in the world.
    Grats yo. Did you maintain a few adds throughout to keep up veng, or spike hard in the opening and ride the wave? I'm not as familiar with 25m strat to know if it's even possible, but I've started trying to keep a small golem on me for veng and to bait empowers. Though, it's a bit superfluous after I'm on massives, I suppose...just J/AS on boss while standing out in Africa.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Drummerboy View Post
    Again you don't have the big picture...

    A person asked if they should just stay ret for loot spec in ToT LFR. Based on that I can make these assumptions:

    1. They are likely geared from the previous LFR. IE they are in 483 or less
    2. They don't have a regular raiding team or might be just starting.
    3. Based on the status of 2 they may be more reliant on pugging until they can fill a slot in a team.

    Though likelihood of these answers are not 100% they can probably cover a very high percentage of those who would ask that question. So given them is it better to:
    A. Tell them to lock into BiS items.
    B. Give them options that will help their toon possibly find more options than gearing from ToT LFR.

    This is why I gave more options than helmet from a, shield from b, neck from c, etc.
    But your suggestions are locking them OUT of BIS items, for no gain. Which is the big picture we're trying to explain to you. OP asked about TOT LFR loot spec, not how to get into a trade chat pug. You're making a lot of wild assumptions which may (or may not) be valid or in any way applicable. Either way, they're not part of the question and shouldn't be part of the answer, especially if it makes you answer the way you did.

    You've created this entirely artificial scenario about this lonely raider who's looking for a home and how to get there, when all he asked was "what should I set loot spec to?".

    TL;DR - There is no reason to be Prot on JinRohk. There is no reason to be Prot on Primo. Qon is a good source of a weapon (and tier), so should be coined as Prot. Lei Shen is a great tank loot pinata, and should be coined as such. Rest of the instance is Ret, or you're shooting yourself in the foot for the "big picture".
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  4. #3104
    In my career when someone asks me a question it's more important for me to know why they are asking me the question than the question itself. The "why" is the context and not the "what". When a person asks me "Can you get me a new computer?" my first answer isn't "Yes here is what I'll buy?" it's "Why do you think you need a new computer?"

    But alas on the internet no one has patience and just wants to give the answer and move on.

    In light of this,
    You are right Nairobi, promdate, Nillo, Butler, Kittycovox, and everyone else. I gave absolutely useless advice. I apologizing for being a waste of forum space.

  5. #3105
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Grats yo. Did you maintain a few adds throughout to keep up veng, or spike hard in the opening and ride the wave? I'm not as familiar with 25m strat to know if it's even possible, but I've started trying to keep a small golem on me for veng and to bait empowers. Though, it's a bit superfluous after I'm on massives, I suppose...just J/AS on boss while standing out in Africa.
    Yeah, I sat on the boss in the beginning with 2 adds linked on me. I can totally see why there's going to be a 50% veng cap in 25's next tier since I was constantly sitting with 500-700k.

  6. #3106
    This has nothing to do with your or my or anyone else's career and how it functions daily. To assume so is what got us here in the first place.

    The average consumer going into a Best Buy/WalMart/CompUSA doesn't have a clue about PC hardware, software, or options. They just know that the store carries and sells computers. In this case, it is safe (and perhaps helpful) to answer their questions with follow-up questions to establish what they want. However, if someone came in saying "Hey, I need a new vid card, I need to replace one of the GTX 660Ti's that I'm running in SLI", you wouldn't say "Gee sir, what makes you think that you'd want a GTX 660Ti?". That'd be asinine. Know your audience.

    The average WOW player is about as adept at WOW as the first shopper in our example above. However, given that only a VERY select few % of the players care enough about the game, raiding, and their character's performance to seek out a 3rd party site to ask other players about these topics, we can assume that most (if not all) posters on this forum are far more like the second shopper. He doesn't want to be sold something, or have his questions questioned. He knows enough about what he's asking to form a direct and concise question, and deserves a commensurate answer.

    Know your audience.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by promdate View Post
    Yeah, I sat on the boss in the beginning with 2 adds linked on me. I can totally see why there's going to be a 50% veng cap in 25's next tier since I was constantly sitting with 500-700k.
    Yeah I usually run up to ~650 with 3 adds in the start, then hover ~200 for the remainder depending on RNG of adds and shield bounces. Gonna miss that!

    But big grats, #2 on your first kill, lolz. I got a #1 JinRohk on our first kill, but that was week 2, which was a lot less impressive :P Still held it for a couple weeks!

    PS - I read all your posts as if you were Gordon Ramsay.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  7. #3107
    Quote Originally Posted by Drummerboy View Post
    So keep a 483?

    Meanwhile when you see a trade pug raid that says minimum 500 ilvl you don't get to raid? Not practical in a video game.
    I'm keeping my 496 ring since it's better than most alternatives.

  8. #3108
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    The average consumer going into a Best Buy/WalMart/CompUSA doesn't have a clue about PC hardware, software, or options.
    Not sure why you're talking to me about brick and mortar. I work in a corporate environment. It might have been the detail in the context missed "Can you get me a new computer", not "What computer should I buy". Again context is in the details. Apparently you didn't know your audience.

    As far as your assumptions about users being on their "second chopper" I think that's a very broad assumption. Considering MMO-C is one of the few places left to get advice "outside of the wow official forums" of course we will get novices coming in here to ask questions. Your audience isn't always what you think it is. That's again where the words used in the question can tell a lot about what the person is actually looking for.

  9. #3109
    Quote Originally Posted by celinamuna View Post
    I'm keeping my 496 ring since it's better than most alternatives.
    Other classics include:
    Haste/Mastery valor neck
    Haste/Mastery crafted boots (til RaDen)
    Haste/Mastery valor cloak (til legendary)

    I'm also stuck with the 522+8 Primordius ring and a 541+8 JR ring since Primo and RaDen are being dicks.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Drummerboy View Post
    Not sure why you're talking to me about brick and mortar. I work in a corporate environment. It might have been the detail in the context missed "Can you get me a new computer", not "What computer should I buy". Again context is in the details. Apparently you didn't know your audience.

    As far as your assumptions about users being on their "second chopper" I think that's a very broad assumption. Considering MMO-C is one of the few places left to get advice "outside of the wow official forums" of course we will get novices coming in here to ask questions. Your audience isn't always what you think it is. That's again where the words used in the question can tell a lot about what the person is actually looking for.
    Let go of the semantics and realize that the argument was about the core of your entire tirade here, not about whatever it is you do for a living. I was trying to put it in terms that you would understand and/or relate to, but I see now that you're just grabbing at any possible straw to try and have an argument, even if it's not the one the rest of us are concerned with. You can't see the forest for the trees, which is ironic for someone preaching about big picture thinking.

    Not sure what "2nd chopper" is, but perhaps you should re-read the post. I related people on these forums to enthusiasts in any other hobby/realm/activity. Despite the fact that there is a generous delta between the best and worst players on the MMO-C forums or any other fansite, the fact is that the average "skill" of MMO-C posters/readers, however you wish to quantify that, is leagues ahead of the average for WOW players who do not frequent this or other sites. That's the whole point. That's the audience.

    If you could stop trying to argue about anything and everything in an effort to save face and realize that, you'd understand what the previous post was about.

    I bolded the important part, because it's the most funny to me. "Your audience isn't always what you think it is" yet you contrived some zany scenarios about this "mystery raider" to try and retcon your advice to NOT be bad, and then try to warn me/us that we don't know what the audience is what we think it is? Of course not, it's the goddamn internet. So what is a smart person to do? Take the question at face value instead of conjuring up some fantasy situation to give off-the-wall bad advice about something that nobody was even asking about.

    I regret that I don't have time to continue this further, as it's late here. I'm sure you'll manage to misread or misinterpret or otherwise take offense to something I've said here, which is to be expected at this point. I can only hope that you'll focus your next retort at myself instead of some poor person seeking advice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  10. #3110
    Quote Originally Posted by Drummerboy View Post
    Not sure why you're talking to me about brick and mortar. I work in a corporate environment. It might have been the detail in the context missed "Can you get me a new computer", not "What computer should I buy". Again context is in the details. Apparently you didn't know your audience.

    As far as your assumptions about users being on their "second chopper" I think that's a very broad assumption. Considering MMO-C is one of the few places left to get advice "outside of the wow official forums" of course we will get novices coming in here to ask questions. Your audience isn't always what you think it is. That's again where the words used in the question can tell a lot about what the person is actually looking for.
    How can you go this long without saying - and not sarcastically - "I was wrong?"

    Look, it happens. I came on here pretty damn confident in my philosophy on tanking, and I was wrong. I was wrong about my estimates on possible SotR uptimes (I felt that 70%+ was impossible without proof, which was promptly provided) and I was wrong about Divine Purpose as a viable talent. And not only in the sense that more haste buffed the talent; because many bosses have a cast, DP gains value in that you can pool Holy Power for the casts and then go wild when you're actually being attacked. This makes HA less appealing, such as on Ji-Kun where after one taunt swap you can find yourself watching three consecutive casts.

    I'm not here to lecture on DP, only to point out that I was very convinced of the infallibility of HA, and I was wrong. When I saw some great tanks here advocating DP, I re-evaluated my own position and discovered that I was...wrong. Or at least, wasn't giving it a fairshake.

  11. #3111
    Deleted
    Okay. I just woke up, and I am confused. Why are people talking about dodge/hit LFR belt????

    Geezus. To tired to even think about it now.
    Just go ret in LFR, problem solved.

    If we are talking about the T15 LFR you could go holy for tortos and prot for IQ.
    Lei-Shen is good as both retri and prot so chose what you want.

    I believe their is some boss where holy/prot got a higher chance of tier piece than prot so that could als obe considered.

  12. #3112
    At first I would like to apologize for yesterday's outburst. I has been ages since I was seriously tanking with my prot paladin (last time was during Cata). And yet yesterday I was forced to tank heroic tortos (10) due to lack of our hunter. Normally I kite them with my monk but lack of md would have made it very risky.

    Thanks for the tips earlier. We did it two tank (dk on tortos and me on bats). Consecration on rf - holy paladin helped a lot though I struggled a bit with aggro and survival at the same time. My paladin tank skills are really rusty >_>

    Anyway, we managed to down him after 5 wipes (I had problems with keeping aggro, survival and dancing around the rockfalls and turtles at the same time). Yet we managed to kill him, guess with better gear it would've been easier (I'm 514 atm).

    Thanks for the help

  13. #3113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vasilisa View Post
    Anyway, we managed to down him after 5 wipes (I had problems with keeping aggro, survival and dancing around the rockfalls and turtles at the same time). Yet we managed to kill him, guess with better gear it would've been easier (I'm 514 atm).

    Thanks for the help
    Was hardly an outburst :P As going by the last 2 pages, yours was quite tame. Congratulations on your kill
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nicus/advanced
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    I dont care if they [gays] are allowed to donate [blood], but I think we should have an option to refuse gay blood if we need to receive blood.

  14. #3114
    Deleted
    Isn't the monk-tank superior in getting aggro from the bats? Some1 told me, you only have to throw barrels like Gragas in LoL and laugh.
    Maybe you should try stun --> judgement (with LAotL) --> run 20m when the rockfalls occur. This helps getting your shield back up.
    Another tweak is to let the bat tank take tortos for veng until the first bats come.

  15. #3115
    Herald of the Titans xebtria's Avatar
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    http://ptr.wowdb.com/items/103969-5-...boss-12-loot-1

    yay, our tanking weapon in 5.4 will drop basically at the end of the content. -.-

  16. #3116
    Quote Originally Posted by xebtria View Post
    http://ptr.wowdb.com/items/103969-5-...boss-12-loot-1

    yay, our tanking weapon in 5.4 will drop basically at the end of the content. -.-
    Good thing weapon damage does hardly anything for us and you can get one that is only 4 item levels lower from the first boss (who is a total push-over) in ToT heroic.

  17. #3117
    Deleted
    I know you guys are discussing some belt but hey, we're all paladins here so huh, blow me , I wanna discuss the Haste Prot tier pieces!

    You think it's just a mistake or are they really going forward with it? The Haste/Parry piece is weird but I think it's good that they acknowledge we like Haste (and means they might not just gut it).

  18. #3118
    Quote Originally Posted by DorfSchrat View Post
    Isn't the monk-tank superior in getting aggro from the bats? Some1 told me, you only have to throw barrels like Gragas in LoL and laugh.
    Maybe you should try stun --> judgement (with LAotL) --> run 20m when the rockfalls occur. This helps getting your shield back up.
    Another tweak is to let the bat tank take tortos for veng until the first bats come.
    Yup, monk tank is superior for that. Sadly while kiting the bats you can't assure that you will be in range of new spawned pack to throw kegs at them. Normally hunter md them to me to give me initial aggro. That's why we decided to get my paladin this week

  19. #3119
    Deleted
    if they're putting haste on our gear finally then there is hope for them yet

  20. #3120
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by rawhammer View Post
    if they're putting haste on our gear finally then there is hope for them yet
    I might start feeling so happy and fulfilled I may stop thinking all Monk tanks are cock-juggling barrel throwing wannabes. Yey for Haste Prot gear. Now if they only were to do that with the tank cloak...

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