1. #3521
    Quote Originally Posted by trystero View Post
    I also think that monks are better than paladins, overall. Just few people play them as they're a bit more complicated than any other tanking class. And as it's an AM-heavy class, those that play it poorly...well...it's obvious.
    Quite the contrary, I feel. I love my monk, but on tanking many fights, especially ST fights, it's basically cruise control. Assuming a base 5k haste on a BrM, you will NEVER let Shuffle drop or run out of resources to clear stagger. Gets even sillier with t15 set. Our BrM literally tanks RaDen with a castsequence macro while tabbed out except to move him for orbs every ~50sec.

    Now, on AOE pulls/trash, I guess it can be a bit more "dynamic" if you want to work in BoFire or something, but the basic "rotation" is incredibly easy and gives basically 100% AM uptime.

    Quote Originally Posted by metasaigneur View Post
    @promdate : I meant without any reset, like finishing the boss @25stacks and laugh at its corpse, but yeah, agreed otherwise, logically.
    10m only, but you can also do that with a monk using a mastery build and/or RoRo. I know that Daught and a few other monks are already "invulnerable" in this tier with mastery builds/procs and use of set bonii.

    @FF : no, I didn't mean that we should only have 1 tank class, and agree that monk are superb on this tier, and generally speaking, but a bit lackluster in terms of rotation. It's just that I don't consider being able to shut down big physical attacks easily a niche. And because we have so many strong other tools, magical dmg'nshit mean merely squat (unglyphed DP, Hopur, SS...). So imo, paladin are not only invincible in said "niche" (physical), but has some OP tools like SS (thus the nerf) and SoI (indirectly nerfed by vengeance).
    Do we have details on this 30% nerf yet? As in, is it 30% off of the base shield, or 30% off of the scalar? That will make a huge difference. Still kinda baffled it was even an option, especially targetted at Ret too (wtf), but let's hope it doesn't stick as is...

    In fact, I loved blood DK since ICC, tanked with it all the way through cata because of its hipster AM, and wished they add some tweaks to make it "new" again. I rerolled monk only recently (because lvling is a hassle) but I already see on various streams how strong it can be. Only tanks I dislike are rage user (druid/war) because I'm bored while playing them. But's that's some personnal thing, I'm sure plenty of people find them ultracool and dynamic to play to each their own.

    I like all tank classes, it's just that having a paladin tank rather than any other one (10man speaking here, careful guys) is way smoother on every fight.
    100% agree here. BDK was always more "fun" to me when they were the AM pioneers, since it really felt like you had some skillcap to tanking instead of just smashing your face into things. But, now the pioneer is the "grandpa" of the system, with DS/Blood Shield showing its limits/age quite poorly. I just hope that we, as pala's and pioneers 2.0 for the stat changes don't suffer a similar fate once the post-5.4 sweep takes place.

    Also, rage tanks suck. I've always had all tanks at max level, and have never not enjoyed playing one until MoP with the rage changes. I guess I don't HATE warrior, but really don't like it either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rivin View Post
    The MoP stat revamp changed it to 3% base miss chance, and enemies gain 1.5% chance to hit per level, which means that any enemies 2+ levels above you can't miss. I'm not sure what the Vengeance-on-misses change was supposed to do, unless it was an exploit fix or something.
    The only thing I can think of would be from BrM's again, with dizzying haze giving 3% miss/misfire on applicable mobs. But even then, it's restricted only to trash/non-boss.

    Maybe targetted at CM's, since Monks make such a strong showing there, and all the mobs inside should be DH'able.
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  2. #3522
    Stood in the Fire Riemu2k3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    100% agree here. BDK was always more "fun" to me when they were the AM pioneers, since it really felt like you had some skillcap to tanking instead of just smashing your face into things. But, now the pioneer is the "grandpa" of the system, with DS/Blood Shield showing its limits/age quite poorly. I just hope that we, as pala's and pioneers 2.0 for the stat changes don't suffer a similar fate once the post-5.4 sweep takes place.


    Also, rage tanks suck. I've always had all tanks at max level, and have never not enjoyed playing one until MoP with the rage changes. I guess I don't HATE warrior, but really don't like it either.

    I twinked my Prot Warrior up for our Grand Empress HC kill (couldnt really do that with druid/dk combo). Hated every minute of it. Haven't played him since. Used to have a druid alt in cata. I looked at him when MoP came out and put him back to sleep after like 2 hours. I don't believe there is a more boring concept out there atm. than rage tanks. It just sucks.


    Haven't played Monk as my co-tank is a monk. But gonna twink one up soon. Used to play Blood DK but tbh, that's also not fun anymore. I liked AoE tanking on my Blood Dk since its just obviously simple. But with a monk co-tank, that became boring too with 5.3. Gearscaling is just too high on that keg smash. I can go afk for trash when our monk is tanking (same goes for my prot pally btw. but meeeh).


    Made me reroll to Prot Pala 2 weeks after 5.3 was released and tbh I haven't looked back.
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  3. #3523
    I came back into MoP with the intentions of playing monk DPS. Since I had experience tanking, when we needed a replacement due to people quitting, I was called up to the majors. It wasn't until we started going into HoF-H that I switched to the paladin. I do have a level 90 Paladin, Monk, Warrior, Druid tanks. If you ever armoried my druid, you'd see him in like 475 ilvl... because screw druids. That was the most boring class to level so far. The only reason my druid was leveled over my DK was because the monk and dk are both miners, and I needed an herbalist (tauren druid OP).

    As it is now, I'm not a fan of the warrior style. But I do know that warriors are going to be considerably better next tier than they were this tier. It'll probably bring them up to the top 3 with monks and paladins.



  4. #3524
    I like the mobility of the warror playstyle, but that is about it, the rest is kinda boring with warriors.
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  5. #3525
    Quote Originally Posted by Riemu2k3 View Post
    I twinked my Prot Warrior up for our Grand Empress HC kill (couldnt really do that with druid/dk combo). Hated every minute of it. Haven't played him since. Used to have a druid alt in cata. I looked at him when MoP came out and put him back to sleep after like 2 hours. I don't believe there is a more boring concept out there atm. than rage tanks. It just sucks.


    Haven't played Monk as my co-tank is a monk. But gonna twink one up soon. Used to play Blood DK but tbh, that's also not fun anymore. I liked AoE tanking on my Blood Dk since its just obviously simple. But with a monk co-tank, that became boring too with 5.3. Gearscaling is just too high on that keg smash. I can go afk for trash when our monk is tanking (same goes for my prot pally btw. but meeeh).


    Made me reroll to Prot Pala 2 weeks after 5.3 was released and tbh I haven't looked back.
    Yep, story of my life.

    Almost main swapped to BDK this expansion (lol dodged a bullet there). Ended up sticking with Pala. DK was so much fun back when it was the only AM option, but it's just lacking in so many areas right now. Still a lot of fun to mess around with, easy spec for CM Gold carries, and I enjoy DK PVP, but raiding is just better on a monk/pala (IMO).

    My co-tank is a BrM so I don't play mine in raids really, but we're starting alt raids (low interest in the group, which sucks because I love alts and learning other classes) and with Flex starting soon hopefully can have some fun on him. We'll be running ProtPal/BrM combo in that raid, too #winning.

    ProtWar was retard-stronk for HC Empress, but yeah I CBA playing anything that dull. The only thing WORSE than ProtWar is Guardian. OMG so awful. I use all my 90s to farm ZG mounts, and it's just painful to play the 2 rage-tanks. Not sure how or why anyone would.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by promdate View Post
    If you ever armoried my druid, you'd see him in like 475 ilvl... because screw druids. That was the most boring class to level so far.
    Lulz

    As it is now, I'm not a fan of the warrior style. But I do know that warriors are going to be considerably better next tier than they were this tier. It'll probably bring them up to the top 3 with monks and paladins.
    I'm getting this feeling too, which means I probably will dust off the warrior a bit. I do miss playing him, since he was my OG main from MC through Sunwell. Still rocking full (original) t3 and the Marshal title. I get lots of tells about his name (Faulk), for people asking if I'm a Rams fan
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
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  6. #3526
    Herald of the Titans xebtria's Avatar
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    has anyone noticed yet, that the protection Tier helm from T16 has Parry/Haste ?

    http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=99128

  7. #3527
    Yes, and the gloves are Exp/Haste.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
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  8. #3528
    Herald of the Titans Grimord's Avatar
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    Guess who's back from a 2 week ban!

    Fun stuff: We did kill Dark Animus as soon as we managed to get 2 days in a row with a decent setup but now it's Lei Shen pain time. Still having major setup issues with people going on vacation and all that BS plus I replaced a couple Raiders that left and the replacements still aren't up to their game. We usually reach the second transition without an issue but we get fucked 'cuz all my best DPS aren't around that much atm so we lack damage and are forced to do unwanted overloads causing the second transition to kill us with stupid shit like 3 overcharges/static shocks in the same platform. >.< /rantoff


  9. #3529
    Banned MerinPally's Avatar
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    So, at long last I have the time to raid again (probably). As I don't know how long this will last, instead of forming or joining a guild I'm going to do some kind of organised pug of pretty much the same 10 people. My question is, which fights on 10n and then the easier heroics, are solotankable?

    I'll be looking to solo as much as possible for the obvious reasons of simplicity (for others, even if harder for me), and also because I very rarely trust other tanks. I've got the tank ego sorted and have done for years. Also, not having to instruct an offtank will make matters easier, and my dps will be higher and whatever class my OT is I doubt they'll be able to reach the same (doubt I'll get a monk somehow) so that way it'll boost the group dps overall. My current thoughts are like so, for normals, could you please correct if there are any mistakes?

    Jinrohk - normal yes, but maybe not worth the extra hassle. Heroic no.
    Horridon - normal yes, heroic possibly?
    Council - normal and heroic yes.
    Tortos - normal yes but on heroic maybe a kiter for the bats?
    Megaera - normal yes, heroic I know nothing about. I heard there's a sweet spot. Even then, maybe not worth it.
    Ji'kun - normal yes, heroic maybe - but not really worth it?
    Durumu - yes and yes.
    Primordius - yes normal, heroic unsure.
    DA - no way.
    Qon - yes and yes.
    Twins - normal yes, heroic not really until excellent gear?
    Lei Shen - normal yes heroic no.

    I'll never see half those on heroic anyway with a group like this but it would be useful to know. Thanks for any input guys.
    Last edited by MerinPally; 2013-08-06 at 09:03 AM.

  10. #3530
    Herald of the Titans Grimord's Avatar
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    Jin'rokh - If your raid team is pushing good dps and healing, sure, but I don't think it's worth the hassle. Just have the tanks stand in the water all the time and that'll make for enough DPS.

    Horridon - Normal is easy. Haven't tried in heroic but should be doable if you have good healers.

    Council - Perfectly doable on normal with good DPS. Wouldn't try it on heroic due to Frigid Assault plus the need to move the priestess away. Having you getting frozen, specially during malak or kazrajin's enrage would put so much strain on your healers it probably wouldn't be worth it. Might just need 3 healers for that when you can easily 2 tank and 2 heal (heroic).

    Tortos - Doable in both difficulties.

    Megaera - Probably doable, too much hassle with positioning imo.

    Ji-kun - Doable on normal. Probably doable in Heroic if you have someone capable of soaking a Talon Rake now and then.

    Durumu - Easy solo tank on both difficulties.

    Primordius - Doable in normal. Probably impossible in heroic due to extreme damage plus adds of death.

    Dark Animus - Doable in normal. Heroic too if you go for the zerg tactic.

    Iron Qon - Second easiest solo tank (we did for progression, just like durumu).

    Twins - Should be possible in normal if you line cooldowns for Suen's fire attack, specially at high stacks. Don't think you an pull it off in HC though (I solo tank night phases, but day phase is just too much damage if you don't reset).

    Lei Shen - Normal, sure. If damage gets too high just bubble off a decapitate. Heroic I guess you'll be one-shot by Fusion Slash at some point. That or the debuff in P3.


  11. #3531
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimord View Post
    Twins - Should be possible in normal if you line cooldowns for Suen's fire attack, specially at high stacks. Don't think you an pull it off in HC though (I solo tank night phases, but day phase is just too much damage if you don't reset).
    Day phases is not an issue at all, you can reset stacks at first and second inferno making them 0 issues if you just circle your cooldown on stacks 4+, you can take 3 stacks without cds.

    The only thing you need to solo tank twins is a dps to be able to taunt Sven around in phase 1, (yes, the fire boss is Sven the viking, not suen).


    My input for you Merin in normal

    Should be solo tanked:

    Tortos, Durumu, Iron Qon, Twins, Lei-Shen

    Can be solo tanked:

    Horridon (You should be on boss 100% either way), Council, Megaera, Animus,

    Jin'rokh, prim and ji-kun can be solo tanked but imo to much trouble for 0 gain.
    Last edited by Firefly33; 2013-08-06 at 10:20 AM.
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    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  12. #3532
    I solo-tanked the last phase of Lei Shen 25N for our first kill, debuff was stacked up to 60 before I could hit divine shield (somebody used Lay on Hands on me).
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  13. #3533
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    I solo-tanked the last phase of Lei Shen 25N for our first kill, debuff was stacked up to 60 before I could hit divine shield (somebody used Lay on Hands on me).
    You can also easily reset it by running to china while lei-shen is channeling a spell and simply kiting him for 1-2 seconds. When we were still progressing I reset my stacks on every second cast he stopped to channel, when we got it on farm I started doing it on every 3-4 channels.
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    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  14. #3534
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    You can also easily reset it by running to china while lei-shen is channeling a spell and simply kiting him for 1-2 seconds. When we were still progressing I reset my stacks on every second cast he stopped to channel, when we got it on farm I started doing it on every 3-4 channels.
    Didn't want to run out of range of the healers as we didn't have any battle rezzes left.
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  15. #3535
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    Didn't want to run out of range of the healers as we didn't have any battle rezzes left.
    It can feel scary, but as long as your healers are not in australia while you run to africa they are still gonna be able to heal you, you only need to run like 10-15 yards from lei-shen, so as long as you dont run in the complete opposite direction that your healers are standing they will still be able to heal you.

    Of course, standing your ground at using divine shield is viable, I dont know how the dot damage is in 25 man, but in 10 man I feel like stack reseting feels safer and less risky.

    I see that the stacks deal the exact same amount of damage in 10 and 25 man, so it is probably easier to outheal it in 25 man than 10 man, probably standing and bubbling was so good for you, simply a 10 vs 25 difference.
    Last edited by Firefly33; 2013-08-06 at 11:00 AM.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  16. #3536
    Yeah, in 25 man you have the relative luxury of having 3 healers standing around doing nothing in that phase other than during ball lightning or after a thunderstrike, so you can have them bomb you with heals and chain self-cooldowns and external cooldowns for over half a minute.

    I think I was taking about 170k dps (after cooldowns) in the ~10 seconds before I bubbled.
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  17. #3537
    Both Council and Megaera are easily solo-tankable, I even dare say it's easier.

    For Council just 3 warn healers for when you'll be stunned, and they should no problem keeping u up. It never happens at the same time as Frostbite. Use glyphed DP/GotAK/AD 1 second before stun to help them, remember to renew your SS so it won't drop. After Mallak is dead there's really no tank damage going out.

    For Megaera the only problem is positioning for melee, just put the markers on the farthest melee hit range and use them for stacking too. Unglyphed DP is available for every 2nd breaths, roll other CDs for the others. Take LH and enjoy 1s-2nd place on damage/healing meters.

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  18. #3538
    2 tanks fight really pisses me off. I just cant understand how some tanks can be doing so low threat. I was on my alt monk doing a ToT HC pug, and on the first boss, Jin'rokh, I kept getting aggro and aggro over and over again, and my monk is only at 515 ilvl, the other tank had like 528 ilvl. And I consider myself to play monk badly, I was only doing 200-220k dps and still the other tank lost aggro all the time, so annoying.

    The tank ended up fake dcing and we solo tanked it. I was actually suprised on how easy solo tanking Jin'Rokh was. We simply used a feral druid going bear and taunting AFTER the throw, so I actually got thrown as a tank, this meant that the druid got 1 stack of static wound which allowed me to reset my stacks, so I only got 2+2 static wound smashes, which was easily survivable by stacking CDs and absorbs at my 515 ilvl.

    Might actually start solo tanking Jin'rokh on my paladin now too, I really did not expect it to be that easy. With some timing I can probably get him to static smash my Salyin Scout aswell.

    I really hope there are a lot of one tank fights in the next tier.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  19. #3539
    Monks currently do a lot of threat, which is getting "fixed" next patch. I would often have to stop doing anything when tanking on my monk (was 515) with our regular blood dk tank (540).
    Last edited by Promdates; 2013-08-06 at 06:08 PM.



  20. #3540
    Quote Originally Posted by promdate View Post
    Monks currently do a lot of threat, which is getting "fixed" next patch. I would often have to stop doing anything when tanking on my monk with our regular blood dk tank.
    I do far more threat on my paladin than my monk however, but that is likely because I play my paladin better. The only thing that I feel like monks threat is off the charts is on AE, but I feel like on single target it is almost behind paladins.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

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