[MoP] Protection Paladin Guide

[Deleted]

SW got nicely buffed in patch (2 HP for J instead of 1 while AW is up), so I can expect it to pull ahead of HA.

SW is a stronger CD, as it gives the extra 20% healing taken buff too, but it is less often up than HA. 3min (2.5 with trinket) vs 2min.
It will depend mostly on encounter and player preference.

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Did anyone notice the vengeance nerf hitting us kind of hard?


I didnt break over 150k vengeance until Galakras came down. Just felt weird compared to the giant jump in vengeance from t14 heroics to t15 normals

Galakras is just a ****. You barely get Vengance while tanking the adds, because of:
1) 1/n Vengance from multiple mobs
2) No vengance from AOE damage.

[Deleted]

I honestly dont understand the logic behind 1/n vengeance formula. Feels like it is way to steep for aoe tanking.

[xebtria]

1/n vengeance basically forces tanks to pull and tank as less and as hard hitting mobs as possible.
... you are screwed when you simply HAVE to on a fight like galakras

[Jellospally]

eh with dps cloak + massive avenger shield spam a fight like galakras wasnt bad i was still doing 220k dps

[Deleted]

Maybe not so much TLDR but this is what i recall from that convo.

Yeah that was an accurate recap of the convo here. I don't want to re-open the discussion but do want to register some dissent. The idea that you can avoid dying so something that saves your life is not worth taking just seems bizarre. We are not machines - we make mistakes, especially on progression when gear matters (some top tanks say they make mistakes every 3 or so GCDs). I think the best advice is to get both cloaks and decide which one you want to wear depending on whether you want a bit more survivability or a bit more dps.

Here's two posts from elsewhere that I found persuasive:

For a player attempting to push progression, I'd advise the tanking cloak. For a player in a more casual raid, I'd advise using the tank cloak. For the player who only does LFR, I'd advise the tanking cloak.

It's not even a matter of how hard bosses hit, it's just that when the tank dies in a stable situation, 90% of the time it's a tank derp, or some other massive damage mechanic. Bosses simply don't swing fast enough or have enough mechanics going on that it's likely you die from rapid little attacks. I raid in a spectrum of content, from a 10m that is barely 2/13 heroic right now to a 13/13 25m that killed ra-den over four months ago. I don't feel I die particularly less in the 10m normal raid, and when I do it's usually from some fairly hard hitting mechanic/derp. My deaths are usually related to unhealable burst = very high damage attacks. Snapping bite, talon rake, triple puncture, hard stare, massive slam, the random aggro pull -> fan of flames, taking a decap/fusion slash I wasn't supposed to, etc.

DPS cloak boosts damage sure. If that's what you really care about, who am I to judge, right? However, I believe that the tank legendary is the stronger by far of the choices for speed of progression as in on your back the entire time from your first pull on Immerseus normal to the final pull of heroic Garrosh.

Passive ardent defender made prot pallies overpowered for an entire expansion back in wrath, and they're freely handing a similar ability out to every tank who wants one ...

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post22221900

And more humorously:

Assertion: The proc on the tank cloak is hilariously overpowered. So overpowered, in fact, that I contend that it's worth more DPS than the DPS cloak's stats and procs, even with the subpar itemization, in addition to being worth more survival than, roughly, anything that's ever been in the game before, barring 3.2 era Ardent Defender.

How is it worth DPS, you might ask? I contend that it is so hilariously good for raw survival that you could happily start reforging your stats into crit and come out ahead on survival AND dps over any other option.

Proof of assertion is left as an exercise for the reader. Because that is WAY easier on me.

http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.c...33397&start=30

[celinamuna]

Did anyone notice the vengeance nerf hitting us kind of hard?


I didnt break over 150k vengeance until Galakras came down. Just felt weird compared to the giant jump in vengeance from t14 heroics to t15 normals

Yea, honestly feels like they nerfed it by much more than the 1.8% to 1.5%

[Deleted]

Yea, honestly feels like they nerfed it by much more than the 1.8% to 1.5%

It's the nerf to multiple adds you're feeling. Was one of my concerns earlier in the ptr cycle that it was too much (and I'm not talking dps wise, cause who cares about that really). Since we scale so much with vengeance in regards to survival. When suddenly we starts taking damage that previously would give us 200k+ vengeance and we only get 100k we're gonna be lacking in the survival department.

[celinamuna]

It's the nerf to multiple adds you're feeling. Was one of my concerns earlier in the ptr cycle that it was too much (and I'm not talking dps wise, cause who cares about that really). Since we scale so much with vengeance in regards to survival. When suddenly we starts taking damage that previously would give us 200k+ vengeance and we only get 100k we're gonna be lacking in the survival department.

Honestly, not even sure, when i'd time Iron Jugg on ptr i think i was sitting around 250-300k veng, today on normaly doubt that i broke 150k and i def took more stacks than i did on ptr.

Now it might be because he hits for less, but i somehow doubt that the difference is that big.

[Deleted]

So... I just got loot from ordos. I forgot to change my loot spec, so got dodge/parry shoulders. So pissed right now.

Did proving grounds before, didnt have time to try endless yet, but bronze and silver was as expected extremely easy, gold was a bit more fun but still easy. I hope endless is more challenging.

[xebtria]

theck hasn't provided his weak aura strings for 5.4 by now, has he?
since I'm using his "SS actual and estimated absorb value" string (or however you want to call it), it would be nice to see an update for it, as well as a similar string for the new EF.

if anyone hears something about this, would be nice to post it here. at least on sacredduty I haven't found anything for now.

anyone heard from something?

[Deleted]

Went back into proving grounds after finishing up in the isle to try endless, gotta say, endless was actually fun. I did not have so much hopes after how boring bronze-gold was. I did not play proving ground on PTR ( I like surprises ), so went in completely blind today.

Took 4 attempts to get Endless 30, died on wave 4(lol stood in stun), 6, 13 and then 34. After getting 30 I decided to suicide since I wanted to log alts and stuff. I will probably go in later and try to get as close to 100 as possible, but it is so time consuming. I know 50 would be really easy with my strat, I know I used completely wrong talents and shit, changing glyph after the wave 13 wipe caused 34 to be easier than 13 was before.

I am considering writing a prot guide for endless 30 after raid tonight or something.

Gotta say I really really like the idea behind proving grounds, I hope they expand and improve, this is extremely good considering the "beta" nature of proving grounds, I am gonna have to try it on my other specs later.

[pld]

Some thoughts after yesterday:

My Vengeance levels felt relatively low (I was hovering around 100-150k max) on the earlier fights, but I was still able to output competitive DPS so I wasn't too concerned about that.

Battle Healer RIP.

I was excited about the GC change. The trash after Protectors was insane. I was getting back-to-back GC procs constantly. Also, as a heads up, you can skip pretty much all that trash.

Protectors feels like it is/will be one tankable. We ran a 2 tanks/3 heals/5 dps set up last night and our 2nd tank ended up dying fairly early into the pull (I would say maybe 35% (?) into the fight). I picked up both adds and never felt too overwhelmed. The only times damage got rough was during certain P2 since I was tanking multiple, heavy-hitting adds and if I got an unlucky combination of Vengeful Strike + Gouge.

[Promdates]

Did anyone notice the vengeance nerf hitting us kind of hard?


I didnt break over 150k vengeance until Galakras came down. Just felt weird compared to the giant jump in vengeance from t14 heroics to t15 normals

I did break 230k vengeance on Juggernaut, which was nice. Everything else was probably around 80-100k.

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Gouge.

If you set him as your focus, you can see him casting it. Just quickly turn your back before it's over and then turn back around.

[Deleted]

ZZZZZzzzzzzz Did the world bosses earlier. Got excited when I saw gloves pop into my bag. Instantly depressed when I realised they were Holy because for some reason, I had changed my loot spec during an LFR on a "maybe I should gear up Holy, might be fun" type of whim.

I also got the chest token from Sha in a Flex run.

[pld]

If you set him as your focus, you can see him casting it. Just quickly turn your back before it's over and then turn back around.

I'm aware, but when I was solo-tanking both Rook and He(?), there were times when I would get stunned by Rook and then have He cast Gouge while I was stunned.

[Cheekun]

I'm aware, but when I was solo-tanking both Rook and He(?), there were times when I would get stunned by Rook and then have He cast Gouge while I was stunned.

Wouldn't this essentially prevent single tanking, because He's gouge is also a threat drop? I could see it being a very minimal issue after a few weeks of 4+ bosses on farm, but im still curious.

[pld]

Wouldn't this essentially prevent single tanking, because He's gouge is also a threat drop? I could see it being a very minimal issue after a few weeks of 4+ bosses on farm, but im still curious.

The few times it happened, our healers were able to keep up whoever got aggro, so it wasn't too bad. You'd be CC'd at most for ~5 seconds (and only a handful of times throughout the fight) which isn't too bad to heal through. A rogue, druid or plate dps could probably tank for a few seconds without issue.

Just keep in mind the solo-tanking wasn't done on purpose and only because our 2nd tank died (twice) early on in our attempt. We just sort of went along with it and I adapted as best I could on the fly, so I'm sure if anyone really wanted to solo tank this, it could be done much smoother.

[Cheekun]

The few times it happened, our healers were able to keep up whoever got aggro, so it wasn't too bad. You'd be CC'd at most for ~5 seconds (and only a handful of times throughout the fight) which isn't too bad to heal through. A rogue, druid or plate dps could probably tank for a few seconds without issue.

Ah, okay. I figured a bit of gear would make it doable, but i guess it doesn't really matter in the end.

[Deleted]

Guys one question, are paladins as good as DKs soloing stuff? (not lvl 60/70 raids)

Thanks!

[Deleted]

Another question: Has there been any discussion over which trinkets to use? I missed it too.

We're gonna go for the 5th boss tomorrow and I dunno if I should roll for that CDR dps trinket or not.