1. #4661
    Quote Originally Posted by Jellospally View Post
    Our real problem in my group is people just dying to random shit me and the warrior are bored as fuck because we just sit there watching people die....tank job is so boringly easy on siege lol
    That was my thought after the first 10ish Siegecrafter pull ~ It's just like patchwerk progress was for DDs all over again.
    Tanking the boss/add is easy enough until the 10th electrocute but by the time half of the raid is already dead due to failed belt or mines.
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    Dk: Telare
    Warrior: Irlida

  2. #4662
    Quote Originally Posted by Zambal View Post
    Well might be wrong since I will do ky first pull on sunday and havnt seen the fight yet, but I see no reason not to go so high since the debuff is on a steady timer with a cast time it is easy to make sure the right cds are up...

    What is your reason for staying on 5 Firefly?
    Yeah, as the others said. As long as you can kill the shreddar before the 4th explosion, anything else does not matter. A healthy rotation on the tanks allowed them to save more cooldowns. Like Nillo said on the next page, Siegecrafter progress for tanks is extremely boring and easy. It was a bit fun before 2p and Vial, but even when "undergearing" the encounter it was easy for tanks. When an encounter is that easy for you, and that hard for the dps. You do not want to wipe the raid at 10% because you were playing with stacks.

    Using the strat that we used both tanks had learned exactly what to do the entire fight when the boss reached 50% life, since after that it was just rinse and repeat. We just our CDs in the exact same order. When people talk about getting 7-9 stacks or whatever, we had about 350 wipes on siegecrafter, we had about 3-5 wipes that were past that point where we would have gotten 7-9 stacks. Getting a tank death there just because tanks are playing with stacks would significantly set back the progression speed. Especially when the gain of playing with the stacks is non-existant as you can still kill the add before fourth overload.
    When we tanks did like we did instead, we had learned the entire fight from a tank PoV while the dps was still struggling at half way through the fight, that way there was no chance of tanks causing a wipe when we finally get far into the fight.
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    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  3. #4663
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Yeah, as the others said. As long as you can kill the shreddar before the 4th explosion, anything else does not matter. A healthy rotation on the tanks allowed them to save more cooldowns. Like Nillo said on the next page, Siegecrafter progress for tanks is extremely boring and easy. It was a bit fun before 2p and Vial, but even when "undergearing" the encounter it was easy for tanks. When an encounter is that easy for you, and that hard for the dps. You do not want to wipe the raid at 10% because you were playing with stacks.

    Using the strat that we used both tanks had learned exactly what to do the entire fight when the boss reached 50% life, since after that it was just rinse and repeat. We just our CDs in the exact same order. When people talk about getting 7-9 stacks or whatever, we had about 350 wipes on siegecrafter, we had about 3-5 wipes that were past that point where we would have gotten 7-9 stacks. Getting a tank death there just because tanks are playing with stacks would significantly set back the progression speed. Especially when the gain of playing with the stacks is non-existant as you can still kill the add before fourth overload.
    When we tanks did like we did instead, we had learned the entire fight from a tank PoV while the dps was still struggling at half way through the fight, that way there was no chance of tanks causing a wipe when we finally get far into the fight.
    While that is true, I have seen some videos of ppl only getting 2 overloads instead of 3 and if you have a disc priest using spirit shell on every 2 overload that menas the aoe dmg on the raid goes down and the risk of ppl dieing aswell.
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  4. #4664
    thanks good thread.

  5. #4665
    Has anyone had a chance to play around with Juggernaut's Focusing Crystal? I had originally dismissed it, but after doing some quick math, that 2.65%+ could be a nice chunk of heals.

  6. #4666
    Wat?
    It's okay for warriors by how in the world does a paladin need more healing? !:
    Armories:
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    Dk: Telare
    Warrior: Irlida

  7. #4667
    Quote Originally Posted by Nillo View Post
    Wat?
    It's okay for warriors by how in the world does a paladin need more healing? !:
    I haven't done the later heroics yet but figured it would be nice to have in case I find the damage to be heavier than I expected. I wouldn't use it over Thok or Malk's trinket normally, but considering I still don't have 2P and am currently using Spark/Feather, I'm thinking about taking it the next time it drops (even if it's just to play around with).

  8. #4668
    Titan MerinPally's Avatar
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    Dear lord now I remember why I hate LFR. Only doing it because I want to get my legendary cloak because well... Even though I'm not raiding anymore, I don't like being inferior to what I could be - which is LFR gear right now.

    Waiting to pull Dark Shamans for no apparent reason, I say that I'd like to pull - silence. So about 45seconds later I pull and get told "well that was fucking stupid" even after I'd had a 25/25 ready check and said I was going. Right. Wiped for lack of dps (only 6 people broke 100k and 2 of them were us tanks). Second pull - waiting again for ages so getting a bit impatient I said "I'd kinda like to get cracking, I need to write these notes up on Quantum Chem and the Schrodinger Equation" - first thing said after that was "that's deserving of a kick".

    "What?" "stop trying to show off that deserves a kick" - to which I replied, if the idea of the Schrodinger equation gets you jealous, you've clearly never looked at it. Silence falls after that, boss dies and me being fed up of being shat on all raid for being 508 ilvl (despite keeping up with the fully normal gear tank and out dpsing most of the raid) decided fuck it. Eurgh. /camp.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valarius View Post
    Oh shut the fuck up you spack cunt.

  9. #4669
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulleedot View Post
    Has anyone had a chance to play around with Juggernaut's Focusing Crystal? I had originally dismissed it, but after doing some quick math, that 2.65%+ could be a nice chunk of heals.
    I really don't see how it's going to do anything more than add to overhealing. If you're pushing 200-300k dps as an example figure, it's only 5-8k hps, which is only ~10-16k healing between boss hits.
    And then remember by taking it you're probably going to either be losing a good chunk of haste or CDR from vial, that's going to result in less sotr coverage, less SoI/EF healing, less dps etc.

  10. #4670
    Quote Originally Posted by Seahenar View Post
    I really don't see how it's going to do anything more than add to overhealing. If you're pushing 200-300k dps as an example figure, it's only 5-8k hps, which is only ~10-16k healing between boss hits.
    And then remember by taking it you're probably going to either be losing a good chunk of haste or CDR from vial, that's going to result in less sotr coverage, less SoI/EF healing, less dps etc.
    Point taken. It was just something I was curious about. (If you read my next post, I point out that I wouldn't use it over Vial or Tail Tip)

    I just recall a few weeks ago when it dropped I ran some numbers quickly and thought it was intriguing. I also overheard that Absalom (of Blood Legion) was using it so I wondered if it was something 25m tanks found use of during heroics.

  11. #4671
    Eh he plays his own style of prot pally. No haste. Instead goes for Mastery/Stam

  12. #4672
    Quote Originally Posted by paulleedot View Post
    I haven't done the later heroics yet but figured it would be nice to have in case I find the damage to be heavier than I expected. I wouldn't use it over Thok or Malk's trinket normally, but considering I still don't have 2P and am currently using Spark/Feather, I'm thinking about taking it the next time it drops (even if it's just to play around with).
    We have more than enough self healing. What is lacking for the later heroics is effective health and proactive damage mitigation, not reactive. Even so, the healing contributed by the Crystal is negliable at best.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  13. #4673
    Stood in the Fire Zabuzan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Completely unrelated to current discussions, but we were talking a (long) while back about different solo tankings. One boss that was brought up was Garrosh, but people said that the red crane transition could be a problem.
    Were you referring to Garrosh Normal with this? We've been solo tanking it for a few weeks now, with me at about 560ilvl the first time and 568 now. We have our Prot Warrior go DPS (and have another dps Warrior too) so they both go Die by the Sword for the Crane transition and easy peasy! We only get that first transition anyway, but obviously none of the other transitions would be an issue.

    On a side note, we've actually managed to solo tank every boss on Normal this tier at various points.

    Heroic, so far we've only managed to do Immerseus and obviously Thok! :P Norushen is probably solo tankable as well, but would need to do the napkin maths to check if the later stacks are survivable with CDs and if the stacks cap off. 1 tank/ 1 heal I imagine Sha of Pride is probably soloable too, though would probably need a DPS to taunt for one or 2 of the wounding prides in the first phase? Galakras is probably fairly easily solo tankable (we solo tank P2 anyway and it's just a case of having a player able to soak the massive hits from the 2nd tower boss), but we've never tried it.

    I did not realise that the red crane doesn't do anything major if no one is in melee range of it... is Garrosh HC even vaguely solo tankable with the boss stacks not dropping off except during WC and EWC or were you purely referring to Normal?

    - - - Updated - - -

    There is one boss we haven't solo tanked on Normal actually - Spoils!!! I think it could be doable though, perhaps with 1 heal, 1 tank and 8 DPS, all going in one quadrant and pulling a huge amount, the switching over to the other side and doing the same... but not any real benefit to doing that, just making it harder rather than zerging :P

  14. #4674
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zabuzan View Post
    Were you referring to Garrosh Normal with this? We've been solo tanking it for a few weeks now, with me at about 560ilvl the first time and 568 now. We have our Prot Warrior go DPS (and have another dps Warrior too) so they both go Die by the Sword for the Crane transition and easy peasy! We only get that first transition anyway, but obviously none of the other transitions would be an issue.

    On a side note, we've actually managed to solo tank every boss on Normal this tier at various points.

    Heroic, so far we've only managed to do Immerseus and obviously Thok! :P Norushen is probably solo tankable as well, but would need to do the napkin maths to check if the later stacks are survivable with CDs and if the stacks cap off. 1 tank/ 1 heal I imagine Sha of Pride is probably soloable too, though would probably need a DPS to taunt for one or 2 of the wounding prides in the first phase? Galakras is probably fairly easily solo tankable (we solo tank P2 anyway and it's just a case of having a player able to soak the massive hits from the 2nd tower boss), but we've never tried it.

    I did not realise that the red crane doesn't do anything major if no one is in melee range of it... is Garrosh HC even vaguely solo tankable with the boss stacks not dropping off except during WC and EWC or were you purely referring to Normal?

    - - - Updated - - -

    There is one boss we haven't solo tanked on Normal actually - Spoils!!! I think it could be doable though, perhaps with 1 heal, 1 tank and 8 DPS, all going in one quadrant and pulling a huge amount, the switching over to the other side and doing the same... but not any real benefit to doing that, just making it harder rather than zerging :P
    P1 and P2 are solo-tankable. It's not even the tank damage that's gonna be an issue if you wanted to solo tank garrosh hc - it's the raid damage from the explosion in p3.

  15. #4675
    Quote Originally Posted by Zabuzan View Post
    I did not realise that the red crane doesn't do anything major if no one is in melee range of it... is Garrosh HC even vaguely solo tankable with the boss stacks not dropping off except during WC and EWC or were you purely referring to Normal?
    I was entirely referring to Garrosh N but was more an anecdotal refferance. Solo tanked it twice but never got the crane and people were questioning how to deal with the red crane transition before, especially for groups not having a warrior dps for in your case die by the sword. Out ranging makes it viable regardless of group setup.

    As for Garrosh HC. The transitions are not random. You will never get the crane transition on Garrosh HC. Only part of the fight that actually requires two tanks is P3 entirely due to Empowered whatever the DoT is called. When the DoT explodes the damage would kill your raid in Heroic in P3. The other issue would be the second transition which could show to be a problem depending on what tank you got. I would not like to solo tank on a paladin as aggroing all the adds would be an issue. A warrior could do it without issue however. Having a paladin (ret or holy would not matter) would siginificantly help though.

    Now, I am probably talking a bit conservatively here as my experience of Garrosh is having the "correct" gear for it. If you have a raid team average ilvl of 575 or higher, I think it is highly possible that going with 1 tank 1 healer, you would only get 1 transition in P2, so the second transition is not a problem.
    You would also for sure only get 1 EWC in P3, maybe 0. If you can get away for 0 EWCs in P3, and maybe even 1, you could just chain all your defensives and raid CDs for it to survive it.

    So really, I guess garrosh HC is solo tankable with enough gear to get 1 P2 transition and 0-1 EWCs in P3.
    We had about 566-568 average ilvl when we killed garrosh and I believe our record before the second transition was 16%, with 18-22% being average. Dropping a tank and healer for another dps, and for sure getting 5-10 more item levels on the group would make pushing those last 6-12% trivial.
    Last edited by Firefly33; 2013-11-19 at 04:38 PM.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  16. #4676
    Stood in the Fire Zabuzan's Avatar
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    Would love to see that. Perhaps the last week of the expansion in the best gear possible, we'll give it a go

  17. #4677
    I mean, when actually thinking about it, it is probably not that hard. Garrosh is 100% a gear check. It is also a boss that is very easily overgeared to be made trivial.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  18. #4678
    What trinkets do I want to be using? I have the stam trinket from guardians, stam trinket from Malk, and dps trinket from Thok. I have spark of the zandalari and the shadow pan valor trinket from last tier on currently. None of the drop trinkets are warforged or thunder forged. I cant really decide. I have been using the Malk stam trinket and the Shadow pan rep one. The reduced cd on my defensives is nice. But the proc from thoks looks nice as well. The gear I got gives me more haste now too, and I could get down to a 3.19second Crusader strike using the zandalari trinket.

  19. #4679
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    What trinkets do I want to be using? I have the stam trinket from guardians, stam trinket from Malk, and dps trinket from Thok. I have spark of the zandalari and the shadow pan valor trinket from last tier on currently. None of the drop trinkets are warforged or thunder forged. I cant really decide. I have been using the Malk stam trinket and the Shadow pan rep one. The reduced cd on my defensives is nice. But the proc from thoks looks nice as well. The gear I got gives me more haste now too, and I could get down to a 3.19second Crusader strike using the zandalari trinket.
    Thok's + Malk is probably the more versatile combo imo. You have to compensate the exp lost if you were using the SPA one though.

    I was reluctant to switch my Spark at first, but it's "only" static haste and a str proc (which, as the Thok's one, is non relevant to me because of vengeance numbers you get while tanking, it's just a drop in the ocean) compared to stats + crits dmgs/heals amplifier.
    For my gear, Spark (NM TF) gives me 1% haste more than Thok (NM). But I would lose mastery, crit dmg/heal.

    Only use Rook's for specific fights (solo tanking Malk's BR, probably Immerseus... these have been discused here before iirc).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velkhan View Post
    Those warriors... blizzard should rename "shout" spells to "cry" they are so good at that.

  20. #4680
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    With something like trinkets, just keep every one you've got (and try to get as many as you can ) because then you can be versatile. As Moussaka said, Thoks + Malk are the 2 standard go to ones but there may be (or you may find) a niche use on one boss for a different kind of trinket. Back in Cata, every tank who kept his Baradin Warden trinket from launch until hc DS was so happy with himself. Granted this is just the last tier now but still... it's there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valarius View Post
    Oh shut the fuck up you spack cunt.

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