1. #4721
    Quote Originally Posted by Homsel View Post
    Hmm.. that's strange. I usually let our other MT tank a bit longer than I do (he's a bit of a drama queen if he doesn't get enough to do – different story...) which usually results in lower vengeance on my part. I'm currently at 42% haste and do about 150-160k dps in 10 man normal. Finally I'd like to add I'm not one of those insane dps-tanks and focus more on avoidance/mitigation than tank damage. Therefore I assume most pallys do more damage than me under normal circumstances.

    These numbers don't apply on aoe-heavy fights with high vengeance (eg. phase 1 Garosh) where I can pull 550k (and even for the complete fight this will not go under 280-330k). Pallys are quite dependent on high vengeance, not only for damage but defensive/healing abilities as well.
    I don't have logs from yesterdays raid but i can't believe that he has that low vengeance on that boss... we had him at 3% so him doing more than 100k would be a kill.

  2. #4722
    Quote Originally Posted by Lintwar View Post
    Thx for this. Sorry and needed to give more information with my question. He is solo tanking Wavebinder Kardris on 10M HC. don't know if that change anything?
    You will be moving for a larger part of that fight so Wavebinder tank generally less less dps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nillo View Post
    Wait why do you have the pally on Kardris and the warrior on the melee guy o0?

    - Pally has shitty aoe for the adds
    - Pally has great tools to support heal on the melee guy
    - Warrior has spell reflect for Kardris
    - Warrior has better aoe for the blobs
    It's sub optimal, but paladins can still healing agro the adds, and require very little incoming healing.

  3. #4723
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Lintwar View Post
    I don't have logs from yesterdays raid but i can't believe that he has that low vengeance on that boss... we had him at 3% so him doing more than 100k would be a kill.
    It would probably be better to take another, more Patchwerk like, boss to gauge his performance. I'm not a heroic raider and only do the "normal" 2 tank alternating strategy with that fight, but I get the impression that that Kardis may do relatively low damage to the tank. With the 3 tank strategy, guides say you can put a melee as the Kardis tank. There's a lot of kiting with Kardis that may not be conducive to high dps.

    Also I'm not sure how the vengeance changes affect that fight: perhaps the damage from the oozes is treated as standing in the fire type damage which no longer gives vengeance; and perhaps the 1/N rule for vengeance means the many small hits from the oozes dilutes the tanks vengeance from the bigger hits of the boss?

  4. #4724
    Thank you all for these answers.

  5. #4725
    I tank Kardris 25H and have no problems. I can't grab every slime, but DP unglyphed is available for every cast so I can afford to stand there for a while working on aggro. DPS should have a clue anyway, and if they die to slimes then that's on them. Their spawn is telegraphed, they move at a snail's pace, and they are burned down relatively quickly. I'll also say that my self heals allow me to stay afloat and not have to worry about my healers who may or may not be moving due to tornadoes.

    For DPS, there are logging problems on that fight when your logger's out of range. On our first kill I had over a 100k discrepancy from what I did on Recount and what got logged.

  6. #4726
    Quote Originally Posted by Lintwar View Post
    I have a question about Paladins. I never played one so i want to know. My guild's second tank is a port paladin with 565ilvl but he does only 100k damage. Is this normal for a paladin? Never looked at other paladins damage before.
    i was 552 item lvl when we first did that fight and i was pulling 170k. im currently 560 item lvl, im tanking harom and im constantly pulling over 180k dps competing with my warrior tank up there and with our blood dk tanking kardris pulling an average of 140k dps. and i have to agree with nillo having ur pally tank down there is pretty much a waste considering the amount of tools we have to make harom easier

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rhandric View Post
    So, I'm trying to figure out if I can solo the Blood Rage on Malk (10N, just to figure out if it's doable), without having either the CDR trinket or Rook's aoe dr trinket...and if so, how I would go about doing so. I of course take HA for that fight, and our (possible) healers are a druid, shaman, and priest (either disc or holy is possible, at least most of the time). Back of the napkin math shows that if I keep SotR up and either glyphed DP, barkskin (symb), or ironbark up, that brings the damage to ~720k (lower than that, since my sotr is stronger than 50%, but I'm keeping my numbers easy since I don't know my exact SotR value). AD would bring that to ~570k, which should be survivable (EF/SoI healing, plus, well, healers), and Guardian would make surviving it trivial. But without the CDR trinket, that'd only work for a single BR, as the cds wouldn't be up for the second. Any ideas?
    I solo tanked this without the cdr trinket or rooks aoe trinket in heroic, first u want to make sure u dont have any fatal strikes, when u get into that phase, second just pop GotAK with HA once the blood rage starts, then pop DP and ask for an axternal cd (other pallys sac or druids cd, etc) when ur GotAK is about to fall, that should be enough for the first one, for the second one ur holy avenger will be up again and what u want to do is pop AD toguether with DP and GotAK should come up by the end of ur AD, thats it, enjoy ur 1.2k Eternal flame ticks.

  7. #4727
    ok im about to tank thok hc tomorrow solo tank it and i was curious about any advice you who all ready did it can give me? anything special i should watch out for what debuffs can be bubbled of 100%? so i know if the info i have is true and when it s good to use what cd.

  8. #4728
    I think all except for the the p1 debuff can be bubbled. (you don't want to bubble that debuff anyway due to it's vengeance boost).

    Then either use HA or SW and pop them at 4 stacks of the debuff for p1 (this will be enough ShoR uptime to survive 30 stacks on thok) and early in p2 to blow up bats.
    You'll also want Light's Hammer for raid heal and bat damage.

  9. #4729
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    All the Phase 1 debuffs can be bubbled. However, if you do Poison -> Ice -> Fire like we did, I bubble the Ice stacks off (get Frozen at 5 stacks, then broken out, then after 4 more stacks bubble and cancel until the next phase) but not anything else. If you only do that you'll get more Vengeance from stacks in other phases without a massive risk (more EF as a result makes it pretty safe) and can use Lay on Hands in P1A with Forbearance being off well before P1C... and probably have LoH up again for P1D.

    The most dangerous part of the fight providing you are bang on with CD usage, is the start of Phase 1 imo. Boss is hitting hard but giving relatively low Vengeance and thus self heal. From Acceleration 3, I started rolling small CDs (divine protection glyphed) / vigilance / barkskin / iron bark. When the boss gets to about 10-13 stacks I pop HA and go god mode, until the time your AD -> GOAK so that they line up ending just as you push into P2A. If your raid is struggling on heals, popping Lights hammer right on the pull (on the raid) will have it up again in time to heal through several stacks of Acceleration when your Vengeance is massive towards the end of the phase. Obviously if your raid leader needs LH at an earlier point, you may have to just delay in until then. What we did was push for maximum DPS so we could do fewer stacks in P1B/C/D and I waited until we were about to phase into the first kite phase and popped Execution Sentence at Vengeance peak - if you do 30 stacks, that should easily put you at 600k DPS plus in P1. For our kill we messed up and only got 24 stacks or something, but it's still a sizeable DPS increase. Up to the needs of your raid!
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  10. #4730
    Quote Originally Posted by Jellospally View Post
    http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/b...6-4575f9c71f2d

    setup to enough haste for elixir+food to cap haste.

    33% crit...maybe I can get more i just put it together in like 2 minutes.
    Slightly old post but was wondering about what would happen if the skeer's trinket was to be replaced with healer or dps (doesn't really matter) amp trinket.
    Esp since they sort of scale off each other also.

  11. #4731
    Hrm possibly. Guess it depends if that amount of haste/crit dmg out does it. Wouldn't really know without personal testing if I could ever get that(GL 10 man loot lolz)

  12. #4732
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    Finally got some loot luck in LFR this week. Up to 9/12 Runestones, shield dropped off Nazgrim then I got the bracers off Juggernaut which whilst not great due to the state of my other items, were an upgrade. Got the tier chest from ToT and bought the ret one. Haste is up to 37.3%, ilvl from 513 to 517 (irrelevent really, totally important to pugs though) and my expertise is capped for the first time in a long time. Seems to be a lot of exp on SoO gear.
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  13. #4733
    Ya you have a stupid amount of Hit on your Neck/Bracers and (if you go for 4 set) exp on shoulders/at least 1 ring, chest, gloves, shield.

    Its kinda silly how easily you get over hit/exp even with ideal gear.

    I personally am just using all the haste/crit offset items, but once I(hopefully tonight) get H Tier gloves ill have 3 of 4 prot tier as 574s and ill mess with 4 set..heard its pretty good for H Paragons which ill probably be starting soon(maybe its good for garrosh idk)

  14. #4734
    Has anyone ever experienced a sudden aggro drop whilst tanking? Several times last week and today, I've had my aggro randomly drop and the boss I was tanking would go straight for our shadow priest (last week it was someone else IIRC). I checked WoL to see if I was maybe fat-fingering Salv or Bubble or something, but that doesn't appear to be the problem. I doubt any of our rogues or hunters are using MD/Tricks on the wrong target and even if they were, there's no reason that it would be to the priest (vs. the other tank).

    This happened on H Protectors and H Galakras today and I just had no explanation. One of our raiders kept an eye on the aggro meters after this happened several times and saw my threat literally go from 100 to 0. DBM usually gives me a notice when someone taunts off me or rips threat, but there was no notification for this occurrence.

    I never have any threat issues apart from whenever this happens so I'm fresh out of ideas.

    Weird?

  15. #4735
    I think that happened today to me when our warrior someone ripped off agro with revenge cleaving, and then later on i ripped off agro when he was ~40% ahead.

  16. #4736
    Deleted
    That sounds very weird :S

  17. #4737
    Howdy everyone. I think, the question I have, could have been asked a few thousand times. But since I couldn't find a really convincing answer I want to ask my question here.

    I'm currently struggeling with a few gear descisions. I rerolled Prot Pally a few weeks ago, because my guild wanted me to. After reading up on guides and stuff, I started to follow the haste/mastery idea. We are currently raiding 10 man, nhc (8/14) and I'm tanking together with a warrior. Our healers have been bringing up, my healthpool was to low (somewhat around 750k, 544 ilvl). To this point a didn't really care for Stam, apart from that, being on the items. I didn't use any Stam trinket. So after listening to the complains (they been telling me, compare to warrior - he's on about 100k more health, few ilvls above me) I tried to fix. I didn't want to cut a lot of haste in favor of stamina, so I juggled around with items and stuff. Finally I dropped spark of zandalari for vail of living corruption to increase my health-pool as much as I could, but stay on 30% haste (would love to be much higher...).

    Question now is: Should I really care for Stam? Or just ignore my healers... I'm not beeing instagibbed ever, most of the time, if we wipe, I die the last. And my damage taken is a little above our warrior, but we compensate that with EF afaik. So... plz brothers, help me!

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  18. #4738
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    Only thing I would do is to take stam flask and food. And replace the Focusing Crystal with your Spark (as said before in this thread, the Jugg trinket is pretty useless for us).
    What you already got is largely enough if you know what you're doing (timing SoTR, using cds, whatnot).
    For reference I think most of us didn't have much more hps during normal progress (at least, me) and really, bosses don't hit that hard in 10.
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  19. #4739
    Only change i'd do in your gear is changing that exp-haste gem on your helmet for a pure haste one, and reforge your shield from mastery to haste, instead of expertise to haste.

    That way you'd increase your haste a 0.35 while reducing you mastery for more or less the same amount.

    But well, that's not such a big deal. You shouldnt have much problems on 10NM with the hp you have. Got any logs around?

  20. #4740
    Deleted
    If you want to juggle around with more or less stamina, the best way to increase your stamina is simply to go with 1 or 2 stamina trinkets, I would wholeheartedly recommend gemming haste as prio and in general 1 stamina trinket is enough, but 2 if you feel like you need it, otherwise, stay haste.

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