1. #4741
    Titan MerinPally's Avatar
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    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...jumps/advanced

    Here's his armory link, just as noone else posted it - and incase someone else wants a look.
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nicus/advanced
    Quote Originally Posted by goblinpaladin View Post
    Also a vegetable is a person.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    I dont care if they [gays] are allowed to donate [blood], but I think we should have an option to refuse gay blood if we need to receive blood.

  2. #4742
    Quote Originally Posted by Patchopfer View Post
    Howdy everyone...

    ...Armory: Duckjumps on Blackmoore - cant post links...
    I would recommend replacing juggernauts focusing crystal with spark of zandalar. Gems and reforges look good. A lot of improvement will come as you get more gear (hows that legendary cloak coming along?).

    Without logs, all we can say otherwise is to do things correctly: SotR uptime; maybe time your sotr with boss swings; stack hp to 5 before using it unless you just took a big hit; EF uptime if you took EF; SS uptime if you took SS; even if you don't have EF, using a 3+ bastion WoG after a big hit can help your healers out a lot; vial of living correuption + unbreakable spirit gives you a very short CD on divine protection, be sure to use it often.

    Is there a particular boss that gives you grief? Bosses?

    Edited for wall of text

  3. #4743
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kethmil View Post
    Only change i'd do in your gear is changing that exp-haste gem on your helmet for a pure haste one
    Imo it's the only one I wouldn't change for a pure haste one
    270 stam for 160 haste is a bonus I'd take most of the time. Plus in his case he is still not hard caped exp (more of a choice than an impossibility it seems).
    Moussaka - Paladin Protection
    Ragedoll -Warrior Protection
    Quote Originally Posted by Velkhan View Post
    Those warriors... blizzard should rename "shout" spells to "cry" they are so good at that.

  4. #4744
    Thanks for all your fast replies!

    To answer some questions: Actually we are making decent progress (started building the raid a few weeks ago), killing 1-2 new bosses every ID. So I can't say, we are really struggling. It was more some kind of info my healers were giving, to make their lives somewhat easier. I took EF and think my uptime is decent (depending on boss, but always above 55%). Timing SotR is something I have to put some more learning into - I was spamming it, the first days... not that good of a deal. I have changed that already and try to flatten swings and hard-hits with it in combination with cds. I tend to be a little conservative with both 3min def-cds, because I don't want to blow it to early. Divine Protection is something i rely on strongly - I use it as often as possible (when it makes sense... not when im off-tanking^^). There are no Logs, unfortunately until now. I'll record some tonight and will post them here.

    Cloak: I'm at 4/12 atm, with a lot of luck I might be able to get it this id. Otherwise next id.

    I find it kind of hard, to come up with good stat weights. Been using askmrrobot a while, but he's recommending strange stuff lately. Seems like he puts way more weight in Stam than I would. The weights, I came up with would be:

    Stam 1.12
    Hit 1.02 (to 7.5%)
    Exp 1.01 (to 15%)
    Haste 1
    Mastery 0.75
    Armor 0.6
    Strength 0.55
    Dodge 0.30
    Parry 0.30
    Crit 0.30

    That's what I was using after my healers talking to me. Before, it was basically the same, but Stam was weighted with 0.6 (as Armor).

    Again, thanks for your helpful answers!

  5. #4745
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    To me you really do not want to weight stam that high. Even less in 10 man.
    What I can see being the reason your healers said that is, well, you kinda started the whole thing.
    Once everyone of you will be accustomed to fights, there will be improvements in healing, avoiding damages and gear.
    Heck at some point we pretty much self heal ourselves with high enough vengeance.
    I was always told by our heals that they do not have to really take care of me, whereas they are constantly on their toes with my war co-tank.

    TL DR: I do not think there are any issue with your healthpool.
    Moussaka - Paladin Protection
    Ragedoll -Warrior Protection
    Quote Originally Posted by Velkhan View Post
    Those warriors... blizzard should rename "shout" spells to "cry" they are so good at that.

  6. #4746
    Stam is a good stat. If your healers are asking for more of it, then it might be wise to oblige them until you become more comfortable with handling the damage. There isn't anything wrong with being conservative with your 3-min cds as long as you arent dying.

    Your progress sounds solid and you'll be getting cloak soon. If you just formed the group, then there could be a whole other level of synergizing between the players that will need to take place as well: other people using CDs on you, raid CD calling, you being comfortable asking for CDs from people.

    It looks like you just got 4-set, so your EF uptime will probably look a lot better in the future as long as you're tracking it. How's your addon / UI situation looking?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by celinamuna View Post
    Slightly old post but was wondering about what would happen if the skeer's trinket was to be replaced with healer or dps (doesn't really matter) amp trinket.
    Esp since they sort of scale off each other also.
    I think the amp trinket only works if you're in the right role for it. Like, healer amp only works in healing spec.

  7. #4747
    I think Moussaka has a big point. A lot of people in the roster are people I never played with and we are just starting to progress into SoO plus our healers are the weakest part concerning ilvl. They are doing great jobs, throwing out awesome perfomance, but they only can work with what they have. So I try to help them get more comfy with me, by trying to suite their needs (thus rethinking my point on Stam).

    Monolith: Yeah, just like you say. Concerning 4-Set, I really noticed the bonus after getting it. My EF uptime shot up like mad, nearly keeping it 100% up (sometimes it wears out, but most of the time I have it on me). This was also noticed by the healers. UI wise I'm running with Real UI, provides everything I need - Buff/Procc-Uptimes etc. Only thing im lacking atm is a Boss Swing Timer.

    I think things will get better as soon as healers catch up in gear (getting over 530 for some of them) and I am more used to tanking with pally. Have always been a tank (wotlk - mop warrior, mop brewmaster). So I'm confident in tanking stuff, knowing how to plan out a fight and what to watch out for. It's just that Pallys have some quirks I have to get used to a bit more. Your answers helped me a lot already, knowing I am not doing everything wrong And having some points to improve in the next days. Awesome. Thanks to you. I'm really happy there are still places in this games community where people are not just elitists, trolls and whiners.

    /edit: Could someone of you tell me your stat weights, you are using?
    Last edited by Patchopfer; 2013-12-04 at 04:05 PM.

  8. #4748
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    The same as yours, but stam at the bottom of the list.
    Checked the thing to get caped on hit/exp.
    Enable reforges only.

    That's my boy.
    Moussaka - Paladin Protection
    Ragedoll -Warrior Protection
    Quote Originally Posted by Velkhan View Post
    Those warriors... blizzard should rename "shout" spells to "cry" they are so good at that.

  9. #4749
    Quote Originally Posted by Monolith of Mazes View Post
    I think the amp trinket only works if you're in the right role for it. Like, healer amp only works in healing spec.
    Amp portion works for any class/spec, proc only procs in appropriate specs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    Yeah, Rhandric is right, as usual.

  10. #4750
    Stood in the Fire Zabuzan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhandric View Post
    Amp portion works for any class/spec, proc only procs in appropriate specs.
    Can confirm this is correct... and with a bit of luck I'll hopefully be picking up the Immerseus Int Amp trinket tonight to run with my Thok's Tail Tip

    ---------------------------
    Regarding some previous comments I've seen on stamina, if there are fights where you can get killed by a single massive hit (aka nothing on Normal), then a Stam trinket might be useful, if it's not something SotR can mitigate. I used a Stam trinket on Thok HC progression for taking 7-8 stacks of Panic without having to use GoAK for instance. Other than that, steer clear of Stam, Prot - especially in 10-man, is all about Haste Haste Haste!!!

    Remember that increasing your health pool as opposed to haste level means you are taking more damage, healing yourself for less (at certain haste break points for EF and other abilities) and though you can survive more unimitigated hits without dying, your healers will actually have to heal more to keep you alive. As a Prot Paladin, with good EF timing, the vast majority of your healing requirement will be fulfilled by self heal from EF coupled with Seal of Inisght, obviously at lower Vengeance levels, perhaps less so with the smaller EF ticks.

    As long as you can survive a couple of hits comfortably, or the damage correlating to the highest stack of an ability you'll be taking in a fight, which should be the case for pretty much any Normal fight, stack haste and weight it far and above any other stat.

    So far I've used: Hit to cap = Expertise to cap > Haste > Mastery > Crit > Stam > Dodge = Parry > Strength. It's all about active mit and active self heal. At lower gear levels (sub 550ilvl maybe? hard to say) I'd probably not recommend dropping Parry or Dodge for Crit.

    Once you hit Heroic ilvls, Crit starts to get a little more lucrative as well. I'd rather take a little bit more damage through SotR with lower Mastery (nothing deals ungodly damage post 570ilvl tbh) and get my healing and damaging abilities to crit more - which makes even better use of the amplification trinkets.

    Purist tanks would tell you that Crit is bad and not what tanks are designed to be using, which is true. But in 10-man raiding especially, tank DPS and self sustainability is a much larger factor than in 25-man raiding and can make numerous encounters significantly easier by optimising there. As long as you are alive and your EF is doing most of the healers work for them, you aren't taking too much damage in my opinion!
    <Judge> Alonsus-EU. 6/8M Uldir
    Prot Paladin
    RECRUITING FOR BFA!

  11. #4751
    Quote Originally Posted by paulleedot View Post
    Has anyone ever experienced a sudden aggro drop whilst tanking? Several times last week and today, I've had my aggro randomly drop and the boss I was tanking would go straight for our shadow priest (last week it was someone else IIRC). I checked WoL to see if I was maybe fat-fingering Salv or Bubble or something, but that doesn't appear to be the problem. I doubt any of our rogues or hunters are using MD/Tricks on the wrong target and even if they were, there's no reason that it would be to the priest (vs. the other tank).

    This happened on H Protectors and H Galakras today and I just had no explanation. One of our raiders kept an eye on the aggro meters after this happened several times and saw my threat literally go from 100 to 0. DBM usually gives me a notice when someone taunts off me or rips threat, but there was no notification for this occurrence.

    I never have any threat issues apart from whenever this happens so I'm fresh out of ideas.

    Weird?
    It would happen to us on T15 bosses that couldn't move if somebody else was closer to the boss than the current tank, even if the tank was in melee range.

  12. #4752
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Patchopfer View Post
    Howdy everyone. I think, the question I have, could have been asked a few thousand times. But since I couldn't find a really convincing answer I want to ask my question here.

    I'm currently struggeling with a few gear descisions. I rerolled Prot Pally a few weeks ago, because my guild wanted me to. After reading up on guides and stuff, I started to follow the haste/mastery idea. We are currently raiding 10 man, nhc (8/14) and I'm tanking together with a warrior. Our healers have been bringing up, my healthpool was to low (somewhat around 750k, 544 ilvl). To this point a didn't really care for Stam, apart from that, being on the items. I didn't use any Stam trinket. So after listening to the complains (they been telling me, compare to warrior - he's on about 100k more health, few ilvls above me) I tried to fix. I didn't want to cut a lot of haste in favor of stamina, so I juggled around with items and stuff. Finally I dropped spark of zandalari for vail of living corruption to increase my health-pool as much as I could, but stay on 30% haste (would love to be much higher...).

    Question now is: Should I really care for Stam? Or just ignore my healers... I'm not beeing instagibbed ever, most of the time, if we wipe, I die the last. And my damage taken is a little above our warrior, but we compensate that with EF afaik. So... plz brothers, help me!

    Armory: Duckjumps on Blackmoore - cant post links...
    Your damage taken should be above the warriors.

    From my experience you should not care about stamina that much until later heroic modes. However, I guess mileage may vary and it depends on your healers. In my raid, the healers and me was the weak points in gear, however the healers were good so was not really a problem.

    So bearing in mind that my personal opinion is probably influenced by having decent healers (I have no idea how good your healers are), I would personally say you have more than enough stamina. You have the same health that I had for 11/14 Heroic and starting Siegecrafter HC progression. The only boss that I ever felt my healthpool was low on was Paragons HC. Garrosh HC also feels like he require a decent health pool, but if you had enough for paragons you have enough for garrosh.
    With your healthpool going 12/14HC was not a problem at all, at no boss did I feel too squishy or anything and I asked my healers several times how they felt since I was a bit undergeared, and they always said it was fine even tough one of the two healers himself was only at 540 at the time.

    Never gem for stamina really. Equipping one stamina trinket if you really need it is fine. Maybe even two some times.

    In the end, asking for help on the forums will not give you the perfect answer for you. All you will get is peoples personal opinons influenced by their experiences. In the end, you will have to gauge the proper route to gear yourself, as noone on this forums knows how good you are at playing paladin and how good your healers are than you. Do what you seem fit.

  13. #4753
    Quote Originally Posted by Patchopfer View Post
    Could someone of you tell me your stat weights, you are using?
    I dont use any actual numbers or anything, like from SimC, but for reforging I go hit/exp>haste>mastery. I'm nearing 21000 haste so ill probably start going towards crit where i can spare the reforge. I eat and flask for stamina 95% of the time. I went for the stamina socket bonuses on tier chest and helm. Vial of living corruption is what i equip if i need more survivability.

  14. #4754
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Patchopfer View Post
    /edit: Could someone of you tell me your stat weights, you are using?
    I change my stat weights around a lot. The last template I used was for Garrosh HC where I used.

    Note: Stat weights used does not accurately reflect the relative weights of the stats though. So not saying that in any way reflects how much the stats are worth. It was just my way to get the

    Hit>Exp7.5>Haste>Exp15>Mastery>Stamina>Crit>Str>>>>>>>dodge=parry

    Hit: 4.5
    Expertise Soft: 4.49
    Haste: 4
    Exp Hard: 3
    Mastery: 2.5
    Stamina: 2.4
    Dont really remember STR and Crit Values but will guess around 1.5
    Dodge: 0.3
    Parry: 0.3

    But for Garrosh and Paragons HC I made sure my health was around the 1 million mark in raid buffs give or take.
    For Paragons and Siegecrafter HC I dropped expertise in favor of Mastery. Was considering to that on Garrosh HC too, I do not think I did in the end simply as I realised Garrosh was pretty easy to survie on so preferred the dps from expertise.
    On a lot of fights I would have preferred crit and str over stamina.
    Last edited by mmoc4d8e5d065a; 2013-12-04 at 05:55 PM.

  15. #4755
    Tbh after i passed 555 ilvl i've changed my stat weight to hit/exp(7.5) > haste > exp(15%) > crit > mastery > stam > dodge/parry
    That worked well on everything up to and including Siegecrafter HC, as we're starting to put in more pulls in paragons i might swap crit and mastery around (atm sitting at around 6k mastery unbuffed).
    But even with that amount was sort of self sufficient on siegecrafter.

  16. #4756
    Titan MerinPally's Avatar
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    Finally got my legendary cloak. When doing the celestials the legs dropped as well which I was happy for but not as thrilled as if it'd been the gloves. Double upgraded them because why not and sure my haste dropped from 37.3% to 36.96% but I gained like 40k hp and a nice bit of mastery and obviously the proc. That'll do nicely.
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nicus/advanced
    Quote Originally Posted by goblinpaladin View Post
    Also a vegetable is a person.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    I dont care if they [gays] are allowed to donate [blood], but I think we should have an option to refuse gay blood if we need to receive blood.

  17. #4757
    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    Finally got my legendary cloak. When doing the celestials the legs dropped as well which I was happy for but not as thrilled as if it'd been the gloves. Double upgraded them because why not and sure my haste dropped from 37.3% to 36.96% but I gained like 40k hp and a nice bit of mastery and obviously the proc. That'll do nicely.
    I personally run non-tier (specifically, Ordos') pants, but tier pants are fine as an intermediary.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    Yeah, Rhandric is right, as usual.

  18. #4758
    Titan MerinPally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhandric View Post
    I personally run non-tier (specifically, Ordos') pants, but tier pants are fine as an intermediary.
    Am only an LFR hero at the moment due to university and state of the guild. Was planning to get the garrosh leggings then the 4pc but until such a time this'll do. I'll get to Ordos eventually, I logged off as soon as I finished the quest as I needed to do some work
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nicus/advanced
    Quote Originally Posted by goblinpaladin View Post
    Also a vegetable is a person.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    I dont care if they [gays] are allowed to donate [blood], but I think we should have an option to refuse gay blood if we need to receive blood.

  19. #4759
    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    Am only an LFR hero at the moment due to university and state of the guild. Was planning to get the garrosh leggings then the 4pc but until such a time this'll do. I'll get to Ordos eventually, I logged off as soon as I finished the quest as I needed to do some work
    Yeah, I know I just...forgot that you just got your cloak, despite the post I replied to specifically mentioning it, so you wouldn't have had a chance to get Ordos' pants yet

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    Yeah, Rhandric is right, as usual.

  20. #4760
    Titan MerinPally's Avatar
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    Thing is that the ilvl difference between the LFR Garrosh legs and the normal Tier legs is enough that the tier ones are probably superior anyway, so when I get a chance I'll definitely look into the other options, if there's a better itemized set I can use.
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nicus/advanced
    Quote Originally Posted by goblinpaladin View Post
    Also a vegetable is a person.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    I dont care if they [gays] are allowed to donate [blood], but I think we should have an option to refuse gay blood if we need to receive blood.

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