http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...jumps/advanced
Here's his armory link, just as noone else posted it - and incase someone else wants a look.
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...jumps/advanced
Here's his armory link, just as noone else posted it - and incase someone else wants a look.
I would recommend replacing juggernauts focusing crystal with spark of zandalar. Gems and reforges look good. A lot of improvement will come as you get more gear (hows that legendary cloak coming along?).
Without logs, all we can say otherwise is to do things correctly: SotR uptime; maybe time your sotr with boss swings; stack hp to 5 before using it unless you just took a big hit; EF uptime if you took EF; SS uptime if you took SS; even if you don't have EF, using a 3+ bastion WoG after a big hit can help your healers out a lot; vial of living correuption + unbreakable spirit gives you a very short CD on divine protection, be sure to use it often.
Is there a particular boss that gives you grief? Bosses?
Edited for wall of text
Thanks for all your fast replies!
To answer some questions: Actually we are making decent progress (started building the raid a few weeks ago), killing 1-2 new bosses every ID. So I can't say, we are really struggling. It was more some kind of info my healers were giving, to make their lives somewhat easier. I took EF and think my uptime is decent (depending on boss, but always above 55%). Timing SotR is something I have to put some more learning into - I was spamming it, the first days... not that good of a deal. I have changed that already and try to flatten swings and hard-hits with it in combination with cds. I tend to be a little conservative with both 3min def-cds, because I don't want to blow it to early. Divine Protection is something i rely on strongly - I use it as often as possible (when it makes sense... not when im off-tanking^^). There are no Logs, unfortunately until now. I'll record some tonight and will post them here.
Cloak: I'm at 4/12 atm, with a lot of luck I might be able to get it this id. Otherwise next id.
I find it kind of hard, to come up with good stat weights. Been using askmrrobot a while, but he's recommending strange stuff lately. Seems like he puts way more weight in Stam than I would. The weights, I came up with would be:
Stam 1.12
Hit 1.02 (to 7.5%)
Exp 1.01 (to 15%)
Haste 1
Mastery 0.75
Armor 0.6
Strength 0.55
Dodge 0.30
Parry 0.30
Crit 0.30
That's what I was using after my healers talking to me. Before, it was basically the same, but Stam was weighted with 0.6 (as Armor).
Again, thanks for your helpful answers!
To me you really do not want to weight stam that high. Even less in 10 man.
What I can see being the reason your healers said that is, well, you kinda started the whole thing.
Once everyone of you will be accustomed to fights, there will be improvements in healing, avoiding damages and gear.
Heck at some point we pretty much self heal ourselves with high enough vengeance.
I was always told by our heals that they do not have to really take care of me, whereas they are constantly on their toes with my war co-tank.
TL DR: I do not think there are any issue with your healthpool.
Stam is a good stat. If your healers are asking for more of it, then it might be wise to oblige them until you become more comfortable with handling the damage. There isn't anything wrong with being conservative with your 3-min cds as long as you arent dying.
Your progress sounds solid and you'll be getting cloak soon. If you just formed the group, then there could be a whole other level of synergizing between the players that will need to take place as well: other people using CDs on you, raid CD calling, you being comfortable asking for CDs from people.
It looks like you just got 4-set, so your EF uptime will probably look a lot better in the future as long as you're tracking it. How's your addon / UI situation looking?
- - - Updated - - -
I think the amp trinket only works if you're in the right role for it. Like, healer amp only works in healing spec.
I think Moussaka has a big point. A lot of people in the roster are people I never played with and we are just starting to progress into SoO plus our healers are the weakest part concerning ilvl. They are doing great jobs, throwing out awesome perfomance, but they only can work with what they have. So I try to help them get more comfy with me, by trying to suite their needs (thus rethinking my point on Stam).
Monolith: Yeah, just like you say. Concerning 4-Set, I really noticed the bonus after getting it. My EF uptime shot up like mad, nearly keeping it 100% up (sometimes it wears out, but most of the time I have it on me). This was also noticed by the healers. UI wise I'm running with Real UI, provides everything I need - Buff/Procc-Uptimes etc. Only thing im lacking atm is a Boss Swing Timer.
I think things will get better as soon as healers catch up in gear (getting over 530 for some of them) and I am more used to tanking with pally. Have always been a tank (wotlk - mop warrior, mop brewmaster). So I'm confident in tanking stuff, knowing how to plan out a fight and what to watch out for. It's just that Pallys have some quirks I have to get used to a bit more. Your answers helped me a lot already, knowing I am not doing everything wrong And having some points to improve in the next days. Awesome. Thanks to you. I'm really happy there are still places in this games community where people are not just elitists, trolls and whiners.
/edit: Could someone of you tell me your stat weights, you are using?
Last edited by Patchopfer; 2013-12-04 at 04:05 PM.
The same as yours, but stam at the bottom of the list.
Checked the thing to get caped on hit/exp.
Enable reforges only.
That's my boy.
Can confirm this is correct... and with a bit of luck I'll hopefully be picking up the Immerseus Int Amp trinket tonight to run with my Thok's Tail Tip
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Regarding some previous comments I've seen on stamina, if there are fights where you can get killed by a single massive hit (aka nothing on Normal), then a Stam trinket might be useful, if it's not something SotR can mitigate. I used a Stam trinket on Thok HC progression for taking 7-8 stacks of Panic without having to use GoAK for instance. Other than that, steer clear of Stam, Prot - especially in 10-man, is all about Haste Haste Haste!!!
Remember that increasing your health pool as opposed to haste level means you are taking more damage, healing yourself for less (at certain haste break points for EF and other abilities) and though you can survive more unimitigated hits without dying, your healers will actually have to heal more to keep you alive. As a Prot Paladin, with good EF timing, the vast majority of your healing requirement will be fulfilled by self heal from EF coupled with Seal of Inisght, obviously at lower Vengeance levels, perhaps less so with the smaller EF ticks.
As long as you can survive a couple of hits comfortably, or the damage correlating to the highest stack of an ability you'll be taking in a fight, which should be the case for pretty much any Normal fight, stack haste and weight it far and above any other stat.
So far I've used: Hit to cap = Expertise to cap > Haste > Mastery > Crit > Stam > Dodge = Parry > Strength. It's all about active mit and active self heal. At lower gear levels (sub 550ilvl maybe? hard to say) I'd probably not recommend dropping Parry or Dodge for Crit.
Once you hit Heroic ilvls, Crit starts to get a little more lucrative as well. I'd rather take a little bit more damage through SotR with lower Mastery (nothing deals ungodly damage post 570ilvl tbh) and get my healing and damaging abilities to crit more - which makes even better use of the amplification trinkets.
Purist tanks would tell you that Crit is bad and not what tanks are designed to be using, which is true. But in 10-man raiding especially, tank DPS and self sustainability is a much larger factor than in 25-man raiding and can make numerous encounters significantly easier by optimising there. As long as you are alive and your EF is doing most of the healers work for them, you aren't taking too much damage in my opinion!
Your damage taken should be above the warriors.
From my experience you should not care about stamina that much until later heroic modes. However, I guess mileage may vary and it depends on your healers. In my raid, the healers and me was the weak points in gear, however the healers were good so was not really a problem.
So bearing in mind that my personal opinion is probably influenced by having decent healers (I have no idea how good your healers are), I would personally say you have more than enough stamina. You have the same health that I had for 11/14 Heroic and starting Siegecrafter HC progression. The only boss that I ever felt my healthpool was low on was Paragons HC. Garrosh HC also feels like he require a decent health pool, but if you had enough for paragons you have enough for garrosh.
With your healthpool going 12/14HC was not a problem at all, at no boss did I feel too squishy or anything and I asked my healers several times how they felt since I was a bit undergeared, and they always said it was fine even tough one of the two healers himself was only at 540 at the time.
Never gem for stamina really. Equipping one stamina trinket if you really need it is fine. Maybe even two some times.
In the end, asking for help on the forums will not give you the perfect answer for you. All you will get is peoples personal opinons influenced by their experiences. In the end, you will have to gauge the proper route to gear yourself, as noone on this forums knows how good you are at playing paladin and how good your healers are than you. Do what you seem fit.
I dont use any actual numbers or anything, like from SimC, but for reforging I go hit/exp>haste>mastery. I'm nearing 21000 haste so ill probably start going towards crit where i can spare the reforge. I eat and flask for stamina 95% of the time. I went for the stamina socket bonuses on tier chest and helm. Vial of living corruption is what i equip if i need more survivability.
I change my stat weights around a lot. The last template I used was for Garrosh HC where I used.
Note: Stat weights used does not accurately reflect the relative weights of the stats though. So not saying that in any way reflects how much the stats are worth. It was just my way to get the
Hit>Exp7.5>Haste>Exp15>Mastery>Stamina>Crit>Str>>>>>>>dodge=parry
Hit: 4.5
Expertise Soft: 4.49
Haste: 4
Exp Hard: 3
Mastery: 2.5
Stamina: 2.4
Dont really remember STR and Crit Values but will guess around 1.5
Dodge: 0.3
Parry: 0.3
But for Garrosh and Paragons HC I made sure my health was around the 1 million mark in raid buffs give or take.
For Paragons and Siegecrafter HC I dropped expertise in favor of Mastery. Was considering to that on Garrosh HC too, I do not think I did in the end simply as I realised Garrosh was pretty easy to survie on so preferred the dps from expertise.
On a lot of fights I would have preferred crit and str over stamina.
Last edited by mmoc4d8e5d065a; 2013-12-04 at 05:55 PM.
Tbh after i passed 555 ilvl i've changed my stat weight to hit/exp(7.5) > haste > exp(15%) > crit > mastery > stam > dodge/parry
That worked well on everything up to and including Siegecrafter HC, as we're starting to put in more pulls in paragons i might swap crit and mastery around (atm sitting at around 6k mastery unbuffed).
But even with that amount was sort of self sufficient on siegecrafter.
Finally got my legendary cloak. When doing the celestials the legs dropped as well which I was happy for but not as thrilled as if it'd been the gloves. Double upgraded them because why not and sure my haste dropped from 37.3% to 36.96% but I gained like 40k hp and a nice bit of mastery and obviously the proc. That'll do nicely.
Thing is that the ilvl difference between the LFR Garrosh legs and the normal Tier legs is enough that the tier ones are probably superior anyway, so when I get a chance I'll definitely look into the other options, if there's a better itemized set I can use.