1. #5141
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    Hi, just a quick question so I don't have to dig through 254 pages. I'm gearing up a paladin alt. My main is 14/14H (though not a tank) so I anticipate doing some heroics with this toon eventually, and consider myself at a skill level commiserate to going for a haste build.

    My question is, since I'm stuck in LFR/flex for the moment: if I want haste gear, should I be loot specialized to ret, and then switch to prot for bosses which drop weapons/shields/trinkets?
    Haste items are on the Prot loot table now, but as Spacebubble said it's a boss by boss thing. Look at all the possible loot for each spec and choose the spec that has the best chance of giving you an upgrade.

  2. #5142
    Firefly you are quite good at changing subjects. I like.
    Last edited by Lazel; 2014-04-24 at 09:27 AM.

  3. #5143
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazel View Post
    Firefly you are quite good on changing subjects. I like.
    There is not much to talk about anymore in these threads

    We need to have Merins drunken weekend stories back. This thread used to be like the Protection Paladin Twitter thread.

    In other news. An elderly lady just basically shoved me infront of her in the line at the register at the supermarket because "she had the time to wait and that these poor youngsters had to hurry to get food during their lunch breaks. I felt really bad since I had time to wait haha, but at the same time I didnt want to disrespect her by going back in line.

    First world problems.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  4. #5144
    I'm just sleeping in the class with full volume on music so I drive people away from me. Don't want to create random and awkward conversations with people where we talk every 10 minutes. Rather listen to Krewella <3

  5. #5145
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    There is not much to talk about anymore in these threads

    We need to have Merins drunken weekend stories back. This thread used to be like the Protection Paladin Twitter thread.

    In other news. An elderly lady just basically shoved me infront of her in the line at the register at the supermarket because "she had the time to wait and that these poor youngsters had to hurry to get food during their lunch breaks. I felt really bad since I had time to wait haha, but at the same time I didnt want to disrespect her by going back in line.

    First world problems.
    That happens quite often over here, if somebody sees that you only have a couple of items and they have a trolley (shopping cart in your lingo) full of stuff.
    Intel i5 2500K (4.5 GHz) | Asus Z77 Sabertooth | 8GB Corsair Vengeance LP 1600MHz | Gigabyte Windforcex3 HD 7950 | Crucial M4 128GB | Crucial M550 256GB | Asus Xonar DGX | Samson SR 850 | Zalman ZM-Mic1 | Western Digital Caviar Blue 500GB | Noctua NH-U12P SE2 | Fractal Design Arc Midi | Corsair HX650

    Tanking with the Blessing of Kings - The TankSpot Guide to the Protection Paladin - Updated for Patch 5.4!

  6. #5146
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    That happens quite often over here, if somebody sees that you only have a couple of items and they have a trolley (shopping cart in your lingo) full of stuff.
    Yeah, I know. Still makes me feel bad though.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  7. #5147
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    I honestly believe T15 was the best designed tanking tier ever.
    *for prot paladins

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    That happens quite often over here, if somebody sees that you only have a couple of items and they have a trolley (shopping cart in your lingo) full of stuff.
    Must be English. Not referencing the trolley lingo but when I studied in England it was the only time anyone had ever let me go first in line at a supermarket.

  8. #5148
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazel View Post
    Am I the only moron who didn't sit to get vengeance? ><

    Edit: Nevermind I found my old rank 2 on Lei Shen heroic, soaking decapitate and sitting with guardian+HA.
    One of our pally healers threatened to leave the raid because I died to /sit once.
    Good times :O
    Armories:
    Pally: Chiaki
    Dk: Telare
    Warrior: Irlida

  9. #5149
    Quote Originally Posted by Nillo View Post
    One of our pally healers threatened to leave the raid because I died to /sit once.
    Good times :O
    You died to /sit? :O
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  10. #5150
    Banned MerinPally's Avatar
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    Fucking terrible jesus christ.

    No more drunken rants from me unfortunately for a while as I've got exams, been revising hard and they're on 20th May, 22nd May, 28th May and 30th May so I'll be solidly drunk throughout the entirety of June to compensate.

  11. #5151
    I haven't been able to locate some good info concerning my question, so this was my next stop.

    What is prot pally DPS like in this tier? I ask because I am a Warrior Tank along with a Prot Pally for 25 mans. We both are about 565 ilvl. I know he is stacked mostly haste as he should and is hit/exp capped, but consistently my DPS is typically anywhere from 25-200% higher. I am hit/exp capped (actually over hit) and gem/reforge for dodge/parry. Ex. last week I did ~230k to his 80k on Malk, which gives pretty equal tanking time/vengeance. Typically we are closer, but I still am usually above by quite a bit even if he gets more tanking time. I know prot warrior DPS is off the charts right now, but is it really THAT much of a discrepancy between the two tanks specs or is it his game play?

    I know armories, logs, etc would be helpful, but I am more just wondering if this is something that I should bring up with him, or if it is just where the class is at right now.

  12. #5152
    Paladin tank dps is by far the lowest until you stack crit with amplification trinkets. If you are using crit with amplification trinkets and possible dps cloak/gem aswell it can for sure be competitive with other tank classes. However as you said it sounds like you do not go for any crit, in which case the warrior should kick your ass.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  13. #5153
    You're making a fallacy from the get go by comparing yourself to him. At the very, very least you'd want to compare him to his peers on raidbots (all parses, not top 100), not to other classes. And that by itself is imperfect for various reasons.

    80k on Malk is so low that I'm going to assume it is an aberration; you said yourself that usually you're much closer on the meters.

    Unless his low dps is holding your raid team back, which I very doubt doing 25s (and possibly NMs), I wouldn't bring it up. If you were to make an issue out of it, which I don't recommend, you'd have a better time putting logs here for us to see.
    Last edited by trystero; 2014-04-25 at 01:02 AM.

  14. #5154
    Thank you for the quick response. It is not hurting the raid team at all, I was just looking for what was said. Where do paladin tanks as a whole compare to other tanks, specifically warriors like myself. With that information I won't both looking at our logs more closely or anything because it isn't detrimental and I will just have to check my min/max obsession.

  15. #5155
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    You died to /sit? :O
    That was like once out of uhm hundreds of Lei Shen attempts and right after the pull ~
    Last edited by Nillo; 2014-04-25 at 02:25 PM.
    Armories:
    Pally: Chiaki
    Dk: Telare
    Warrior: Irlida

  16. #5156
    Quote Originally Posted by Nillo View Post
    That was like once out of uhm hundreds of Lei Shen attempts and right after the pull ~
    I never died to sit, but that first melee swing after soaking Decapitate with ardent defender... sigh...

  17. #5157
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazel View Post
    I never died to sit, but that first melee swing after soaking Decapitate with ardent defender... sigh...
    There there
    /pat

    and hmmm, trying to figure out, how i can take a heroic BBoY for myself w/o our casters leading a mutiny.

  18. #5158
    The 10 man I am in finally made it to heroic Thok with plenty of time to get some pulls on it tonight, and we have kind of hit a wall phase 1 goes off without a hitch most of the time. We are using 3 healers. I am using 4 piece, double amp, crit build, and the DPS cloak. In addition, my talents are clemency for double bop, DP(thinking about switching to HA), and LH for the heals, and here is what I am doing for phase 1:
    I take the first 4 stacks.
    LH into the group around 10 when my vengeance is at its peak.
    1st bop at 12
    2nd bop at 15
    DA at 20.
    We only got about 5 pulls on it last night before we called it but this strategy had us consistently pushing 28-30 stacks and had him around 60% health. Phase 2 with the bats seems to kill us because they don't go down fast enough. I was letting the other tank, a druid, get 1 stack and take the bats while I held the boss, but when everyone should start stacking up and trying to push phase 2 around 10 accelerations the bats just start destroying people. In y'alls experience do y'all tank the boss or the bats in phase 2? Also, if you have any other advice for the encounter it would be greatly appreciated.

  19. #5159
    Mechagnome PraisetheSun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zanzbar View Post
    The 10 man I am in finally made it to heroic Thok with plenty of time to get some pulls on it tonight, and we have kind of hit a wall phase 1 goes off without a hitch most of the time. We are using 3 healers. I am using 4 piece, double amp, crit build, and the DPS cloak. In addition, my talents are clemency for double bop, DP(thinking about switching to HA), and LH for the heals, and here is what I am doing for phase 1:
    I take the first 4 stacks.
    LH into the group around 10 when my vengeance is at its peak.
    1st bop at 12
    2nd bop at 15
    DA at 20.
    We only got about 5 pulls on it last night before we called it but this strategy had us consistently pushing 28-30 stacks and had him around 60% health. Phase 2 with the bats seems to kill us because they don't go down fast enough. I was letting the other tank, a druid, get 1 stack and take the bats while I held the boss, but when everyone should start stacking up and trying to push phase 2 around 10 accelerations the bats just start destroying people. In y'alls experience do y'all tank the boss or the bats in phase 2? Also, if you have any other advice for the encounter it would be greatly appreciated.
    The way you're doing it is the most efficient if you 2-tank - we have terrible snap AoE and the adds WILL kill someone before you get them all under control if you do not have a hunter that can MD to you. I wonder why you're dying to the bats, though, if you're comfortably making it to 28-30 stacks in P1 - you're either using every single CD you have in P1, and your healers' output outside of healer CDs is awful, or your healers are forgetting to dispel the debuff from the bats - we usually have our Shadow Priests mass dispel on CD in that phase.

    Also make sure that your DPS understand that the bats are their number 1 priority in that phase. They should switch to full-out AoE on them so you can end that phase quickly and do the Frost phase, which is essentially a repeat of P1.

  20. #5160
    Quote Originally Posted by PraisetheSun View Post
    The way you're doing it is the most efficient if you 2-tank - we have terrible snap AoE and the adds WILL kill someone before you get them all under control if you do not have a hunter that can MD to you.
    I wouldn't say that; the bats come out in such a way that you can get them under control quickly, certainly before someone's killed. And my hunters are lazy SOBs and never MD to me. Initially three come out in a small pack, perfect for Avenger's Shield. After that it's a matter of paying attention to the subsequent pack and scooping it with self-targeted Holy Prism/Shield. So you're certainly capable of doing adds if you want OP; I do it whenever I tank the boss.

    Without logs it's hard to say definitively what is going wrong, but at this point I wouldn't worry about it. Your healers are probably learning to manage the damage intake. Five pulls is nothing, and it's good that you made it to P2 after so few pulls. If bats remain a problem, then you can save pots/CDs and maybe even lust for them (that is what we did at first). You can also BoP a healer when bats come out provided you're not the lone paladin.

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