Are our gun laws lacking?

[PaladinBash]

Guns are illegal in Australia but chainsaws are legal. Sure you can go break into a place at night and get shot. That's something you prepare for. You break into a house and hear insane cackling and a chainsaw revving up? Chances are you don't want to be there.

[KCguy]

The gun laws are terrible in the States. It's too easy to get fire arms and in turn when people get upset or nut jobs are upset at the world, they grab a gun and let loose. You hear about a shooting every week, it's very sad. There needs to be stricter laws, but even then it's too late.

[Kivimetsan]

More frakkin laws will not change shit.

That guy committed an offense and broke the law by killing people.

Banning guns? People will kill each other will swords and bows instead, just like we did 300 years ago.

Will everything be banned, until we're incapable of surviving as an individual and be forced to work to buy food because it will eventually be illegal to hunt a deer with a butter knife?

The only reason gun laws exist is because the government fears you.

The 2nd FUCKING amendment is there for a reason, go research your stuff before you start preparing to hand over your guns, all you will get is a hard butt pounding from your government.

---------- Post added 2012-07-30 at 01:02 PM ----------

Guns are illegal in Australia but chainsaws are legal. Sure you can go break into a place at night and get shot. That's something you prepare for. You break into a house and hear insane cackling and a chainsaw revving up? Chances are you don't want to be there.

Guns aren't illegal...
Australia is one of the most civilian armed countries on the planet.
We just have strict gun laws, because our police force is too inadequate to respond to gun crimes, i.e. Port Arthur massacre.

Hey folks, when seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

[Eroginous]

Like I said, it's hard to understand that point as non american. And no we are not oppressed people that have to fear for their lifes because we have no gun. But then again, different culture.

Why is it so hard to understand that point? What part of the world do you live in where there is absolutely no chance of you or someone you know being involved in a violent crime? I'm pretty sure no one really thinks about being involved in a violent activity until it happens and forces them to think more about their own safety. However, anyone who's not living under a rock can take a look at a news outlet every once in awhile and understand that they are not immune to these things, and that if they value their lives/safety/freedom, then they should probably take some sort of measures to protect themselves.

I personally don't own a gun because I live with people who hate the idea of having a gun in the house. Within the next year I plan on moving out and when I do, I will pursue my right to bear arms and protect myself.

[DieFichte]

What part of the world do you live in where there is absolutely no chance of you or someone you know being involved in a violent crime?

Well, the chances to get in a traffic accident is as high or higher than being victim of a crime. If I would be in fear about crime, I should not buy a gun, but stop going to work with my bike by that logic.

And most criminals don't carry a gun either. You know, getting 1-2 years for break and entry or assault is better than 1-2 years for break and entry + 10 years for possession of an illegal firearm + 10 years for endangering a life. (yes the punishment for having a weapon and pointing it at somebody are about the same as killing him) So normally, if someone has a gun he wants to kill somebody, and for that there is about a chance of 1 in 100'000 to happen to me.

[styopa]

That's absolutely unethical. Treating other nations like children who can't make serious decisions as a sovereign nation because we don't believe they're capable of doing so is the reason they hate us so goddamn much.

"Ethics" have nothing to do with geopolitics.
If you think they do, you need to go back and live at home with your parents, you're not ready for the real world.

The real world is about power and advantage. In geopolitics there is no 'police force' that someone can appeal to, nor in fact any international law that overrules the self-interest of state power.

You might want to read Hobbes' Leviathan, particularly the bit about 'State of Nature, red in tooth and claw'.

We don't treat other nations as children, we simply work to ensure that we maintain an advantage in the most destructive weapons ever invented. ANY state in history has done so, and most have been far less polite/delicate about it than the US has.

And FYI the reason "they" hate "us" is 1000% because their governments (or whoever is backing them, to use the example of the European left parties) find it useful domestically to blame (whatever the problem is) on the US.

[Eroginous]

Well, the chances to get in a traffic accident is as high or higher than being victim of a crime. If I would be in fear about crime, I should not buy a gun, but stop going to work with my bike by that logic.

The logic isn't that you should be afraid of crime or riding your bike. The logic is that you should be aware of your own responsibility for being safe. When you ride your bike to work, you don't just ride it without any thoughts to your personal safety. You wear likely wear a helmet, you look both ways before crossing streets, and you don't carelessly ride into traffic.

Yet there is always the possibility that no matter how safe you are, you could still get into an accident while riding your bike. Someone could have a lapse in their control/judgement behind the wheel and hit you. You could lose control of your bike and end up in traffic at the worst possible time. Any number of things could 'happen' and cause you to be involved in an accident.

The point isn't that accidents happen so you should ignore safety. The point isn't that crimes happen so you should ignore safety. The point is that no matter what, you should be aware of your responsibility for your own safety (no matter what we're talking about), and owning a gun is just one measure in doing that. Crime happens, there's no reason for you to ignore the chances of it happening to you, and then not be prepared in case you are involved. There is no reason to believe that just because we have police and military forces that they will always be sufficient reason not to take matters of personal safety into your own hands.

I am not saying that everyone should be armed, not everyone can handle that responsibility (obviously). I'm not saying everyone should be able to acquire a firearm. There should be significant measures in place to prevent the wrong people from getting one. However, I am also 100% sure that responsible and capable people should never be denied the right to protect themselves by owning a firearm.

Some measures I would like to see put in place:

- Required firearms training, including first aid training in the case of accidental discharge.
- Required proper storage and handling procedures, including requiring those purchasing a firearm to own a certified gun safe and prove as much when buying.
- Required carry certification for pistols to be shown at the time of purchase, along with all other required documentation.
- Required psyche evaluation and 'all clear' from a doctor prior to purchasing.
- FBI documentation for all of these things verified at the time of background check.
- Bi-yearly verification of these things with re certification requirement every 5 years.
- Evaluations of these stipulations any time there is an incident involving the person with the firearm.

And most criminals don't carry a gun either. You know, getting 1-2 years for break and entry or assault is better than 1-2 years for break and entry + 10 years for possession of an illegal firearm + 10 years for endangering a life. (yes the punishment for having a weapon and pointing it at somebody are about the same as killing him) So normally, if someone has a gun he wants to kill somebody, and for that there is about a chance of 1 in 100'000 to happen to me.

It doesn't matter how many criminals carry a gun. What matters is that a criminal is capable of obtaining a gun no matter how legal they are for everyone else, and that if the criminal so chooses, they can and will do something with that firearm. Do you honestly think that it's okay to take your chances and hope that when a criminal decides to commit a crime, that he just doesn't happen to have a gun with him?

Most responsible individuals would rather assume the worst and hope for the best by planning for those cases where a criminal DOES have a gun. Just like a responsible individual would rather assume the worst and hope for the best by planning for those cases where they could be in an accident on their bike.

[mrwingtipshoes]

Yes. Gun control in the US is flagrant bullshit. Will it change? Unlikely...

Correct. There is far too much of it.

The movie theatre shooting was done with guns, body armor and ammo purchased legally with no questions asked.

Consider that for a few minutes then ask yourself that question again.

And one normal citizen carrying would have ended that entire incident before it started.

I'm not going to stick around here and discuss this, between the EU people who enjoy putting their feet in their mouths (both of them) with their ignorance and expectations that he US is just like the EU and with the text-book bandwagon liberals(who are just as bad as text book bandwagon right wingers too) who can't form views with out the help of a political party there is not point in even defending my position.

Remember kiddies; more guns, less crime.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/More_Guns,_Less_Crime

---------- Post added 2012-07-30 at 01:34 PM ----------

- Required firearms training, including first aid training in the case of accidental discharge.

Sure, the government can pay for that right when they have the money to.

- Required proper storage and handling procedures, including requiring those purchasing a firearm to own a certified gun safe and prove as much when buying.

There is absolutely no need for a gun safe if you don't have children or in a decent neighborhood. I have had guns in a closet in my bed room (action opened, unloaded) for years, no one knows they're there and I have a home security (calls the cops and all that jazz) My guns are just as safe as they would be in a safe.

- Required carry certification for pistols to be shown at the time of purchase, along with all other required documentation.

No. You do NOT require a CCW permit to own or carry a pistol. A permit is only required to carry a weapon concealed. NOT to carry one open and not to own a pistol.

- Required psyche evaluation and 'all clear' from a doctor prior to purchasing.

Same as your first point and they must be available 24/7 to have appointments when ever I want them so I don't have to sit on my hands longer.

- FBI documentation for all of these things verified at the time of background check.

You need to read animal farm......

- Bi-yearly verification of these things with re certification requirement every 5 years.

Sure! As soon as people are required to retest for their drivers license. Then again i can hear the crying that would in sue "I lost my license since I drive like a dumb ass and merge with out singling! Now I'm going to lose my job!"

- Evaluations of these stipulations any time there is an incident involving the person with the firearm.

Many states DO look into anyone involved in fire arms incidents. BUT remember, many gun control and CCW laws are controlled

[Eroginous]

Sure, the government can pay for that right when they have the money to.

There is nothing more dangerous than a gun in the hands of someone who doesn't know how to use one or how to respond in the event of an accident.

There is absolutely no need for a gun safe if you don't have children or in a decent neighborhood. I have had guns in a closet in my bed room (action opened, unloaded) for years, no one knows they're there and I have a home security (calls the cops and all that jazz) My guns are just as safe as they would be in a safe.

A gun safe should always be required, even if you don't regularly use it. What happens if you have company over at your house? Do you just hope that no one accidentally finds your weapons? What happens if you go out of town and a savvy thief gets past your security system and finds your weapons? A gun safe serves the purpose of keeping your guns safe when you can't. I see nothing wrong with the requirement.

No. You do NOT require a CCW permit to own or carry a pistol. A permit is only required to carry a weapon concealed. NOT to carry one open and not to own a pistol.

It should be required as another step which ensures that the person who's buyin a weapon is capable of legally owning and carrying it.

Same as your first point and they must be available 24/7 to have appointments when ever I want them so I don't have to sit on my hands longer.

No doctor is available 24/7, so it would have to be a scheduled appointment on your own time, like any other. It's no different than requiring a vision test for people who are getting a driver's license.

You need to read animal farm......

When you go to buy a gun, who do you think the clerk is calling? The FBI.

Sure! As soon as people are required to retest for their drivers license. Then again i can hear the crying that would in sue "I lost my license since I drive like a dumb ass and merge with out singling! Now I'm going to lose my job!"

Some states do require a retest, and in certain situations, a retest is required anyway. I don't see why a retest shouldn't be required for people who own a firearm as a sign of consistency.

Many states DO look into anyone involved in fire arms incidents. BUT remember, many gun control and CCW laws are controlled

Owning a gun is a right granted by the constitution, but it's also a privilege granted by society. People who don't expect to mingle with society can have a gun and do whatever they want with it and society would never feel the impact of that persons gun ownership. However, when you are a member of society, your actions have consequences. Owning a gun has the potential to negatively impact society, and it's only right that any individuals who own a firearm do so with the utmost care and diligence.

I don't think the privilege of owning a firearm should give you the right to be careless with it. Gun control should keep gun ownership consistent. Not infringe on the rights people have been given under the constitution in accordance with their membership in society.

[Tesclo]

"The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." - Thomas Jefferson

[Maleficus]

By your logic people would be doing that in other countries all the time.
Newsflash: They aren't.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...08-02-06-05-46

...just sayin'

Not to get all racist or whatever, but i wonder if this guy was a ninja.

Ninjas should be banned. Or have some kind of ninja control laws. Yeah...that's the ticket!

[kaddor]

no politician in America will get a vote if he talks about changing guns laws
so its hard to say its going anywhere

[Otsoko]

I had to post this for you that say people don't die from knives or there are no mass killings by knife weilding asshats.

Chinese teen kills nine in knife attack.

The 17-year-old, who was identified only by his surname Li, barged into the home of his girlfriend armed with a knife following an argument and killed two relatives of the girl, the Legal Daily said.

As he left his girlfriend's home in Liaoning province's Xinbin county, he stabbed six more people to death and wounded five, it said.

One of the injured died Thursday in hospital, the paper said.