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  1. #81
    Mechagnome NeonX's Avatar
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    Probably not, there are no good games for it that make me want buy it. Hopefully in future they'll have more appealing games for me.

  2. #82
    The Lightbringer Bigbazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Remilia View Post
    Well in terms of graphic. There's not much you can do once you've hit your human limitation. Try as much as you like but developer's artist / designer and model makers can't go past a certain point because it's impossible or it would just take way too long. Graphics afterwards would consist a lot of fluff later on. Even if you want to increase the polygon density / texture, after a certain point, you can't notice the difference no matter how you try to look at it, which happens quite a bit now. So why bother going past it? It's just wasting time.

    So like stated, graphics can only be pursued to a certain point before it just becomes pointless. Debating what the graphics will look like for newer generation consoles is pointless.
    This "Human Limitation" is so far away, games look nothing like real life in game yet, screenshots can fool people but ingame footage isnt fooling anybody, there is a LONG way to go. But let me just show you an example of the future.


    This is a game that is launching next year, for all platforms (PC/PS3/360/Wii U) but is being developed primarily on the PC. This is a PC ingame screenshot.













    Looks pretty amazing (though it will never look that good on the Wii U), could perhaps fool some people into thinking it was a real picture. But then if you look at the game footage you can instantly recognise that it is a game, because graphics have not reached that point yet. Until graphics do reach that point the chase is going to continue, because why shouldn't artists and game designers chase perfection?

    The new XBOX720 from what I heard will be comparable to a current 2012 generation of gaming PC, which means it will have vastly superior performance to the current consoles, the difference compared to the Wii U is probably going to be even bigger than the difference between the PS3/360 and the Wii
    Last edited by Bigbazz; 2012-07-30 at 02:31 AM.

  3. #83
    I love my Wii, but I'm going to have to wait and see if it delivers with it's promises. Not saying it won't, but I just want to wait.

  4. #84
    Mechagnome bloodwulf's Avatar
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    No. I fear that it will end up being similar to the Wii. The best games will be first party software from Nintendo studios, and they will only have a marginal amount of sustainability. The rest of the games will be mostly shovelware with rare decent third party title.

    The sheer fact that nintendo failed at creating excitement at E3 for any type of hardcore gamer supports this. Also i prefer not to be required to wield a Gamegear as a controller, and i don't feel a good since of urgency or drama is created by requiring the player to take their eyes off the screen and the action to browse their inventory or manage a lock (yes this often happens with pause screen inventories, but in those games the developer is not relying on this to increase drama, the Wii U already has a title that does in Zombie U).

    Just my two cents.

    ---------- Post added 2012-07-29 at 09:43 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Remilia View Post
    Well in terms of graphic. There's not much you can do once you've hit your human limitation. Try as much as you like but developer's artist / designer and model makers can't go past a certain point because it's impossible or it would just take way too long. Graphics afterwards would consist a lot of fluff later on. Even if you want to increase the polygon density / texture, after a certain point, you can't notice the difference no matter how you try to look at it, which happens quite a bit now. So why bother going past it? It's just wasting time.

    So like stated, graphics can only be pursued to a certain point before it just becomes pointless. Debating what the graphics will look like for newer generation consoles is pointless.
    Im sorry to say but the human limitation i.e Uncanny Valley, is a long ways off. As an example look at what Epic is doing with the Unreal 4 Engine. They are improving dramatically the amounts of particles behave with light realistically, as well as dramatically improving on the facial animations. You can greatly see the difference between the current Unreal Engine and 4, and it is be created to run on system specs similar to those of the assumed next Xbox. So saying graphics are limited or even capped at this point is not true in the least.
    Last edited by bloodwulf; 2012-07-30 at 02:34 AM.
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  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by lazymangaka View Post
    Absolutely I will. Nintendo is the only company whose consoles offer me a reason to play anything except my PC anymore.
    Yea this is about it for me ... It's actually a good marketing scheme by Nintendo to keep their main titles Exclusive to Nintendo Consoles, but by George it works. All Nintendo has to do is announce a new Console and say there's a new Mario Kart or Zelda Game etc and I am immediately Sold.

    I will certainly be getting a WiiU .. MIGHT wait until a price drop, but knowing my Impatience for all things technological, I'll probably just end up getting it Day 1 anyway.

  6. #86
    Moderator Remilia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bloodwulf View Post
    Im sorry to say but the human limitation i.e Uncanny Valley, is a long ways off. As an example look at what Epic is doing with the Unreal 4 Engine. They are improving dramatically the amounts of particles behave with light realistically, as well as dramatically improving on the facial animations. You can greatly see the difference between the current Unreal Engine and 4, and it is be created to run on system specs similar to those of the assumed next Xbox. So saying graphics are limited or even capped at this point is not true in the least.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    This "Human Limitation" is so far away, games look nothing like real life in game yet, screenshots can fool people but ingame footage isnt fooling anybody, there is a LONG way to go. But let me just show you an example of the future.


    This is a game that is launching next year, for all platforms (PC/PS3/360/Wii U) but is being developed primarily on the PC. This is a PC ingame screenshot.


    [IMG]http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8142/7645361184_0cc5d987e4_c.jpg[IMG]

    [IMG]http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8294/7645363290_8c0930150d_c.jpg[IMG]

    [IMG]http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8006/7630683700_2851ac5c8c_b.jpg[IMG]

    [IMG]http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8162/7630687488_8af2890699_b.jpg[IMG]

    [IMG]http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8016/7630688806_3ef3f1fc46_b.jpg[IMG]


    Looks pretty amazing (though it will never look that good on the Wii U), could perhaps fool some people into thinking it was a real picture. But then if you look at the game footage you can instantly recognise that it is a game, because graphics have not reached that point yet. Until graphics do reach that point the chase is going to continue, because why shouldn't artists and game designers chase perfection?

    The new XBOX720 from what I heard will be comparable to a current 2012 generation of gaming PC, which means it will have vastly superior performance to the current consoles, the difference compared to the Wii U is probably going to be even bigger than the difference between the PS3/360 and the Wii
    I never argued that we're at the cap of the graphics, but I'm just saying that at a point there would be absolutely no point in bothering with what graphics the machine can hold, so why bother arguing about that when what should be the importance is the game play, at least I hope so.
    If a game is just going solely base on graphics, because that is what is being spent on the most, and the game play is utterly boring (as you linked with the project cars game), which is basically another racing game and I can't see much of anything that new about it, what's the point?

    - http://www.wmdportal.com/projects/cars/

    PROJECT CARS represents THE ULTIMATE DRIVER JOURNEY...

    FRANCHISE MODE allows you to carve out a personalized career starting in the Karting world and then progressing on to whichever motorsport specialization you prefer including Rally, Touring Cars, Open-Wheel, GT, Le Mans, and many more!

    Play CO-OP with a friend as Driver/Co-Driver

    FULL TEAM MANAGEMENT... Have a large number of friends? Create, manage, and compete together!

    Experience the excitement of PIT STOPS like you've never seen before!

    Revolutionary PIT-2-CAR RADIO gives you the strategic advantage

    DYNAMIC Time Of Day & Localized Weather make every race unique and challenging

    10+ GAME MODES covering every form of motorsport

    CLOUD-BASED SOCIAL NETWORK allows you to connect with friends, compare times & scores, compete and challenge each other, and share content

    USER-GENERATED CONTENT - Create your own liveries, decals, tuning setups, and even events! Then share them with the world - either for free, in-game credits or even real money!

    PUSHING TO THE LIMITS - Advanced physics, lighting, and AI


    PROJECT CARS is due for release on the following platforms...
    Wii U PC PlayStation 3 Xbox 360
    Honestly in my opinion, I can't tell what is being added for game play experience.
    Last edited by Remilia; 2012-07-30 at 03:21 AM.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeta333 View Post
    Stop grouping the kinect with nintendos motion controls, THe kinect is far better system at tracking movement and utilizing alternative inputs. If MS gave the kind of shit that nintendo does about it i have no doubt they would push it past what nintendo has done with thier motion controlls, But the thing is they dont focus only on it they make it optional somthing nintendo is not doing.
    It has the most potential, but there is yet to be a good "core" game for it. Almost every game that's tried to integrate it to do anything beyond voice commands, dancing, or a few "casual" games has failed miserably. Look at Steel Battalion and the absolute mess that game is, or the Star Wars game where most of the game barely functioned properly (dancing worked!). The sad fact is that the "core" games that people like to focus on (while deriding all of the "casual" games on Wii...the same types of games that are the only ones that function properly with the Kinect) have universally sucked when they integrate Kinect motion controls. Steel Battalion even acknowledged it by having both motion AND gamepad controls to minimize the amount of work the Kinect would need to do with gesture recognition, and it STILL bombed and barely worked.

    Don't try and say Microsoft is ignoring it, because they are working on improving it with subsequent models, and as I've already said the leaked documents show they want to ship it with EVERY next-gen Xbox that comes out. Regardless, if they're ignoring it that means they don't have any care about the product they released which is NEVER a good though.

  8. #88
    The Lightbringer Bigbazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Remilia View Post
    Honestly in my opinion, I can't tell what is being added for game play experience.
    It's a racing simulation game, what do you want them to add booster power ups and slippery bananas? The "Gameplay experience" comes from the quality of the driving model physics first and foremost, followed by the quality of the AI, the career mode, the quality of the online mode. I just also happens to be the highest quality graphics game/racing game being released to date.

    If you have to ask the question then you're not really a racing game fan and the title in question is not for you. The example was to show the exceptional graphics and how while they are exceptional to the point of being the very highest quality, during gameplay there is still a long long way to go before they can fool the average user vs reality



    The way you say "its just another racing game" can be applied to pretty much any game of any genre. We might aswell just do away with every new game being developed, because lets be honest "what is being added for gameplay experience, it's just another game".


    Mario? - Just another game with better graphics
    Call of Duty? - Just another game, better graphics
    Zelda? - Just another game, better graphics
    Mists of Pandaria - Just another game... pfft and barely even graphics, but hey pokemon.
    Guild Wars 2? - Just another game, wow with better graphics.
    Crysis 3? - Whats the point, its just another game with better graphics.


    Oh wait, you're saying the Wii U has crap graphics? So let me get this straight... It won't have good graphics? ZOMG MUST HAVE EPIC GAMEPLAYZ!
    Last edited by Bigbazz; 2012-07-30 at 03:43 AM.

  9. #89
    I grew out of the audience where all I cared about was the next Mario/Zelda/Metroid game a long time ago, and grew tired of those three being the crutch of their lineup.

  10. #90
    Dreadlord Wookeh's Avatar
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    No, i'll wait for the Playstation 4 or Xbox (???) instead.

  11. #91
    Moderator Remilia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    It's a racing simulation game, what do you want them to add booster power ups and slippery bananas? The "Gameplay experience" comes from the quality of the driving model physics first and foremost, followed by the quality of the AI, the career mode, the quality of the online mode. I just also happens to be the highest quality graphics game/racing game being released to date.

    If you have to ask the question then you're not really a racing game fan and the title in question is not for you. The example was to show the exceptional graphics and how while they are exceptional to the point of being the very highest quality, during gameplay there is still a long long way to go before they can fool the average user vs reality



    The way you say "its just another racing game" can be applied to pretty much any game of any genre. We might aswell just do away with every new game being developed, because lets be honest "what is being added for gameplay experience, it's just another game".
    I'm not really sure how graphics is game play really works... but okay.

    Am I a super fan of racing? No, but there are games that I like, albeit they have silly things. A straight forward just lap by lap racing game doesn't seem like it adds anything other than eye candy.

    And no. A genre has specific features in which it adheres to. Afterwards it veers off into what can they give to you that makes it fun, makes it different, gives it essentially it's own identity.

    There's one last thing. Why must graphic become part of realism? Borderlands is a great example of just making it different yet appealing in it's own way.

    Either way this has basically become off topic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    Mario? - Just another game with better graphics
    Call of Duty? - Just another game, better graphics
    Zelda? - Just another game, better graphics
    Mists of Pandaria - Just another game... pfft and barely even graphics, but hey pokemon.
    Guild Wars 2? - Just another game, wow with better graphics.
    Crysis 3? - Whats the point, its just another game with better graphics.
    ...
    Last edited by Remilia; 2012-07-30 at 03:54 AM.

  12. #92
    The Lightbringer Skelington's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    Mario? - Just another game with better graphics
    Call of Duty? - Just another game, better graphics
    Zelda? - Just another game, better graphics
    Mists of Pandaria - Just another game... pfft and barely even graphics, but hey pokemon.
    Guild Wars 2? - Just another game, wow with better graphics.
    Crysis 3? - Whats the point, its just another game with better graphics.
    Not even close. Graphics don't mean shit.

  13. #93
    Not unless they have some games that will blow me away. ZombieU is the only one that looks entertaining so far, and one game is not justification for purchasing an entire system.

  14. #94
    For one reason, the new Super Smash Bros. game.]

    Literally, I am buying this system specifically for this game. I already have a 3DS so I will be ready to go. :P

  15. #95
    I'm definitely going to buy one.

  16. #96
    The Lightbringer Bigbazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Remilia View Post
    I'm not really sure how graphics is game play really works... but okay.

    Am I a super fan of racing? No, but there are games that I like, albeit they have silly things. A straight forward just lap by lap racing game doesn't seem like it adds anything other than eye candy.

    And no. A genre has specific features in which it adheres to. Afterwards it veers off into what can they give to you that makes it fun, makes it different, gives it essentially it's own identity.

    There's one last thing. Why must graphic become part of realism? Borderlands is a great example of just making it different yet appealing in it's own way.

    Either way this has basically become off topic.

    ...
    That is my point - You're not a racing fan and you don't understand. Lets look at GT Planet, a racing game website/forum that rivals or matches MMO-champion in terms of traffic, you go there and you will see real racing fans, and each and every one of them is chasing the next game that will improve mostly one thing, realism.

    Project cars boasts a few things that a real car lover, racing fan would want.

    1. Physics - Most advanced and most realistic driving model to reach the consoles, it is still in pre-alpha and is already at this point.
    2. Car models - Each car is extremely well detailed in terms of graphics and in terms of trying to match real world data, in connection with the physics model this creates a unique and lifelike driving experience for each car.
    3. Car list - Varied and large, from Street cars, Formula 1, NASCAR, FIA GT, DTM, Le Mans(Prototype), GP2, Formula Ford, Classic F1 + various other.
    4. Track list - Massive track list including extremely high quality versions of the most popular real world tracks, aswell as public roads + other
    5. Graphics - Most detailed graphics to date by a large margin.


    The game is in what the devs call "Pre Alpha" it is early-mid stages development. So knowing much more than that is difficult, but anybody can play this game right now, CARS stands for "Community Assisted Racing Simulator" and anybody can invest in this title development process.


    To a real racing game fan the most important "gameplay aspect" is the gameplay itself, the driving of the cars, and each racing fan chases the next new game in the hope that a developer can nail it. Everything else is secondary to this, if the game plays/drives good then that alone is enough for some people. If you then marry that with the best graphics, a massive and varied real world tracklist, career mode and online connectivity with competitions and events... You have a game that outdoes every racing game that has come before it, the main console rivals being the Gran Turismo and Forza series.

    You could say racing games don't matter, just another racing game right? Racing games are big business, and creating the perfect racing game experience is something many developers are trying to do and many racing game fans are searching for, and if you read any threads or posters at GTPlanet (website I mentioned earlier), you would see this passion, and Project CARS sits high in the hopes of many of those gamers.

    You speak of someone who really doesnt understand this world, so why would you understand what is so great about Project CARS other than graphics? You don't know any better.



    The last part

    Mario? - Just another game with better graphics
    Call of Duty? - Just another game, better graphics
    Zelda? - Just another game, better graphics
    Mists of Pandaria - Just another game... pfft and barely even graphics, but hey pokemon.
    Guild Wars 2? - Just another game, wow with better graphics.
    Crysis 3? - Whats the point, its just another game with better graphics
    This was said with sarcasm - My point is, if you can apply such a judgement on 1 game based on a screenshot and no knowledge in a genre you don't understand then you can do the same to any other game. Gameplay is massively important, graphics matter too. But just because a game has amazing graphics that doesn't mean it has bad gameplay, which is pretty much the conclusion you have come to on my posting of those pictures.

    Pictures I might add were to demonstrate that while they are graphically great, there is still a long way to go before the persuit of better graphics comes to an end. But you missed that and went off in a completely random direction with it.
    Last edited by Bigbazz; 2012-07-30 at 04:43 AM.

  17. #97
    Yes, I need to replace my Wii anyway so two birds one stone. New Rayman looks awesome.

  18. #98
    No I will not pay for an entirely new console again, just to play updates of mario and zelda.... again...
    Quote Originally Posted by Zillionhz View Post
    By fiber be purged

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Yalingo View Post
    No I will not pay for an entirely new console again, just to play updates of mario and zelda.... again...
    Missing out. Mario games are getting better and better all the time. Skyward sword was meh though.
    Hell, Mario galaxy 1 and 2 are some of the highest rated games. Last time i checked they were in the top 5.

  20. #100
    Moderator Remilia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    -snip-
    My original statement was that the graphics shouldn't matter and whatever the graphics the machine can handle would be limited regardless. It's also to say that game play matters the most. I took your game you posted as an example because you linked it. I am no big fan of racing, this isn't a thread about racing games. I don't like racing games as much as you do, however this is my opinion, this is yours. However going completely off the way to say that I don't understand the world (which to be honest I wish I don't understand even a sliver of it), is just reinforcing the part where you think your opinion is fact.

    Fyi the info I based off of wasn't the screenshot, it's the game site itself.

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