EA's statements on Swtor.

[Lugor]

Everyone that is saying it's dead and a failure. Isn't it still in the top 5 for sub based MMO's? From what I understand It could have at least as many if not more than rift.

Even at the 500k to 1mil subs that they quoted, SWTOR is still the second most subscribed to Western MMO with 2 to 3 times the number of subs that Rift has. It just happens that they counted on WoW's numbers and got less than 10% of that benchmark. Corporate expectations were out of whack with what the MMO market will support.

[Edge-]

Even at the 500k to 1mil subs that they quoted, SWTOR is still the second most subscribed to Western MMO with 2 to 3 times the number of subs that Rift has.

That's speculation. We have no clue how many subscriptions Rift has.

[RoninaThorstone]

Even at the 500k to 1mil subs that they quoted, SWTOR is still the second most subscribed to Western MMO with 2 to 3 times the number of subs that Rift has. It just happens that they counted on WoW's numbers and got less than 10% of that benchmark. Corporate expectations were out of whack with what the MMO market will support.

whoa, careful there.

WoW only had 5 million subscribers at peak. East doesn't use subscriptions. They have a range of pay per hour and free to play.

WoW has 10 million PLAYERS. Not subscribers.

[FattyXP]

Pretty much this. Whoever was put in charge of the game needs to take a good luck at themselves if they think the finished product was good enough.

Besides World of Warcraft, Diablo II, and Starcraft, what game has anyone here spent any amount of major time playing? None. They are shoving new games down our throats as fast as they can because they realize a majority of the gaming crowd isn't interested in shelling out $60 for a game only to have to pay $15 a month. They make the games short, with hardly any replay value or max level type content. Throw in some multiplayer deathmatch/ctf and bam, good to go for the next 6 months till the next title comes out.
Diablo 3 suffered the same fate, tons of people the first few weeks. Everyone beat everything, no max level content whatsoever (inferno honestly doesn't count, its just hell mode with lots more incoming damage), no pvp, everyone moves on to whatever else new they wanted to play or switched back to whatever game they came from.
World of Warcraft is honestly an annomaly, for seemingly no explicable reason it has continued to be a powerhouse in the gaming community. I have a feeling it only remains so because so many people have SO MUCH time invested into this one single game is feels like a waste to walk away from it. i'm one of those people. Over all of the toons in my sig I have well over 2.5 years of playtime*. Granted I afk for pee and food now and then, and for a cigarette here or there, but most of that time is actually spent playing.
For all of you console players out there used to looking @ hours played in your games... That's 21,900 hours. Try putting that kind of time into Final Fantasy... =-)

*: The toons in my sig are not new to cataclysm, they've all been at level cap previous to cataclysm. I leveled a few to 85 but quit while I was in the middle of leveling them all. Recently started up playing again kinda.

[namelessone]

Hey, I'd go back for F2P. Maybe even spend some money eventually.

[Forsedar]

whoa, careful there.

WoW only had 5 million subscribers at peak. East doesn't use subscriptions. They have a range of pay per hour and free to play.

WoW has 10 million PLAYERS. Not subscribers.

Its quite sad how people do not understand this as well as you and I. People don't recognize that this game isn't in the East so you can only go by the US subs, which is most likely ~800k easily. WoW peaked at 5 million. This game is still growing yet people aren't giving it a chance. Maybe its just the forums because right now (in-game), people seem to be thoroughly enjoying it.

I know I will stay as a paying subscriber.

[Boricha]

Looking at the features section on their website, it seems premium members will be having full access to operations and f2p has none. F2p also has limited access to operations, flashpoints, and war zones. They also have extremely limited access to the AH. This would be ok I guess if there were premium only and f2p only servers but being meshed together, one could essentially say that paying for the premium service is paying to get better gear/get it faster. It may not turn away many players but I don't like the idea of it.

[Socialhealer]

ouch all that work to end up with probably a smaller customer base than runescape? then going the same way as RS with f2p and p2p =/

[Orange Joe]

That's speculation. We have no clue how many subscriptions Rift has.

That may be but I don't think rift is too far from 500-600k

I know it's not hard evidence but user activity shows it to be around that many.

[RoninaThorstone]

That may be but I don't think rift is too far from 500-600k

I know it's not hard evidence but user activity shows it to be around that many.

Well... Also keep in mind that the rift community is extremely active. (because they have a lot to do at end game)

WoW has more subscribers but I doubt they log on or play as much as rift players do.

[pnutbutter]

Additionally, we are introducing new pricing next week in North America and Europe. Beginning
August 6, Star Wars: The Old Republic will retail for $14.99 – essentially offering the first month
free.

Why "essentially" ?

[Socialhealer]

Well... Also keep in mind that the rift community is extremely active. (because they have a lot to do at end game)

WoW has more subscribers but I doubt they log on or play as much as rift players do.

of course...content cleared for months everyone waiting on MoP, say that again in 2 months time.

[ShimmerSwirl]

I'm actually super optimistic for the first report after it transitions, even with competition from MoP/GW2. I' wouldn't be surprised if subscribers increased and absolutely expect total revenue to increase.

Only problem is the next report is going to be before F2P goes live. The one after that might have some potential, but the next one could be brutal.

[Itisamuh]

There is the potential for TOR to pick up a lot of players that might stick around for & after the fantastic story missions. Those are quite the "hook", so to speak. Barrier of a sub fee to get to that great story presentation likely turned off many more than it gained.

If EA don't screw over free players and offer current subs a nice, fat wallop of coins-- I think TOR is in a better position now than it has been... ever, really.

This is pretty much how I feel. I only see this change as a good thing, and have no idea why people are griping. Personally I think pay to play is an outdated and unnecessary model, and that Blizzard is greedy for sticking with it AND charging for extra services when they clearly do not have to do both.

[Orange Joe]

of course...content cleared for months everyone waiting on MoP, say that again in 2 months time.

And two months after that the cycle repeats......

I have nothing against wow or blizzard but don't fool yourself if you think they release content fast. That is one thing trion has beat wow on hands down.

[SirRobin]

Only problem is the next report is going to be before F2P goes live. The one after that might have some potential, but the next one could be brutal.

They gave a ridiculously vague "between half a million and a million" numberless number this time and didn't even try to separate it between the pay to plays and free to fifteens. I doubt they'll try to be any more accurate next time.

[Orange Joe]

They gave a ridiculously vague "between half a million and a million" numberless number this time and didn't even try to separate it between the pay to plays and free to fifteens. I doubt they'll try to be any more accurate next time.

They can only play it off so long before board members will want actual numbers.

[Edge-]

They gave a ridiculously vague "between half a million and a million" numberless number this time and didn't even try to separate it between the pay to plays and free to fifteens. I doubt they'll try to be any more accurate next time.

It's PR speak. If you don't have any positive to talk about, be as vague as possible about the negative and frame it in a positive light.

[Forsedar]

It's PR speak. If you don't have any positive to talk about, be as vague as possible about the negative and frame it in a positive light.

To be fair, they are "well above" the break-even point, which is still a positive.

[Orange Joe]

It's PR speak. If you don't have any positive to talk about, be as vague as possible about the negative and frame it in a positive light.

Exactly if the lose again they will be vague again. If numbers go up they will have no issue saying so.

Still I don't see investors taking the vague answers for too long before they want real numbers.