MoP Elemental Shaman - Loss Of Identity?

[Migrin]

Hey Protoman, thank you for that interesting post. I agree with you that a more indepth resource would be a cool thing. But focusing on elements for all specs is probelmatic if you have a specc called "Elemental". It sort of washs it out. Why not concentrate more on spirits for enhancment? Spirit Wolfs have been a big part of our identity for quite a while, so I think it would make sense to further stress this to set Enhancment more strictly apart from ele and resto. Also for me personally, wind and spirits are somehow related to each other. You can't see it, but you can feel its impact.

Adding Rolling Thunder as a resource to ele would be cool. It would be nice to have some synergies with other spells to add some utility or other side effects. As we already have a dispel protection -30% haste is huge- that would be pretty much obsolete.

How ever, I disagree with what you propose for enhancmenet. One of the biggest differences between ele and enhancmenet currently is, that ele is providing big numbers and enhance frequent ones. Taking away this difference will just further smoothen the borders between the two specs. Enhancmenet does not need high burst. It needs the tools to stick on our foes arses and slice them with our axes while melting their faces.

[Darkedged]

OK, here's an example of what I'd like to see:

Volcanic Eruption
50% of base mana 30 Yards
Channeled

Causes the ground around the target to suffer a
Volcanic Eruption, striking all targets in the area
with molten lava and causing x damage over 5
seconds. Hits all affected targets with Flame Shock.

See what I mean?

If I'm not mistaken, this reminds me a LOT of the old Earthquake spell. I haven't checked it out, but from the sounds of things Resto gets this spell too?

[Deleted]

@Dyptheria
so Earthquake and Thunderstorm is not enough for you?

here i loled very hard. earthquake i sthe most fail spell ghostcrawler invented. All other classes got aoe as basc spell while dumb shammy need to sepnd 31 points in ele tree and no one which play pvp srsly would put a talent point in earthquake.
Learn some pvp basics man.

[Nebria]

If I'm not mistaken, this reminds me a LOT of the old Earthquake spell. I haven't checked it out, but from the sounds of things Resto gets this spell too?

Its earthquake with little vulcan and fire I guess. So yes current Earthquake with more visual effect for me.

I'm not sure if a limit of elements to a spec is something I really like.
I would prefer that every spec has some use of every element but just in their own style.
So instead of Lightning Shield for Elemental it could be Magma Shield with some flaming rock surrounding you. Not sure what to give the other specs to be honest.
Also I like the spirit = wind = Enhancer theme. I think it fits here really but Restro also uses Spirits (that "Ghost" that Heals a nearby imbued ally?)

In the end a Shaman is in contact with all elements and not with a specific one. It is different from being a mage IMO where you focus on one magic kind to master it.
If they would add some more ice to shamans they would have to make sure that it does not get similar to mage or dk skills. Unfortunately all the nice stuff is already in use. Like howling blast. Would have fit for enhancement too.

---------- Post added 2012-08-03 at 11:58 AM ----------

here i loled very hard. earthquake i sthe most fail spell ghostcrawler invented. All other classes got aoe as basc spell while dumb shammy need to sepnd 31 points in ele tree and no one which play pvp srsly would put a talent point in earthquake.
Learn some pvp basics man.

It was solely about IDENTITY (which this topic is about) not how cool or useful it is (for you) or not I like it in PvE.
P.S. in mop you don't have to spend a point for it so problem solved

[Aarnor]

I've always wanted to see more frost based spells that are relevant to shaman dps particularly for elemental. I think it might be kind of nice to have a frost spell that works as an execute usable on targets below 20% health dealing moderate and causing the target to become brittle taking x% more damage from your next lava burst or lava lash spell.

For elemental it would also be nice to have a passive that makes spells cast with flametongue weapon active have a chance to make the target burn for damage over a short period of time, summon spell fire elemental adds for a short period or some other kind of proc effect unique to the spec.

[Migrin]

I agree with you Nebria, a limitation to a certain element or theme would not make sense, but still, some focus might help to solve the identity issue we seem to have ;-) For Ele aoe, I actually like CL very much, so I would rather not have to stand there channeling for several seconds. Adding some magma to the animation of earthquake would be very neat nevertheless.

[Nebria]

it's a little bit ot but just wan to write something about totems as often we claim that they can destroy them with one swing. I asked my self very often why the hell did blizzard not implemented some debuff that the mighty totem slayer gets when he/she destroys a totem. like the old stone claw totem which stuns them just for everything. destroy a fire totem = you will burn some seconds. you destroy a mtt = you have increased resource costs for some seconds... let the imagination go on you know what I mean. this would be funny really

[Keiyra]

They'd have to apply the same kind of penalty to purge and offensive dispel magic, which are the equivalents of killing a totem (removing another players "buff") So if you want to be stunned for every purge in exchange for them getting stunned every totem kill, that'd be fine.

[Nebria]

They'd have to apply the same kind of penalty to purge and offensive dispel magic, which are the equivalents of killing a totem (removing another players "buff") So if you want to be stunned for every purge in exchange for them getting stunned every totem kill, that'd be fine.

Good point. Well you get penalties if you remove some warlocks dots or shadow priests dots - I know because thats part of their main dmg source - or removing this one druid hot.
Well I think with the changes to MoP so that our buff totems are now auras you always benefit from them and they can't be dispelled which was for me more annoying than that they might destroy some earthbind totem. I know MF is another story but in the past you could protect it with stoneclaw. Which was ok for me.

I just think it would be funny to have some penalties for removing stuff as you would think more about it if it is woth it at that moment to do some dispell.

[Keiyra]

Yeah i wouldn't mind something being done, but it has to be done carefully with balance in mind, and need not be applied to every totem (for example if only 1 or 2 totems had "dispel protection" in the same way that only 1 or 2 dots/ 1 hot do, that could be useful)

For example I definitely think something like Capacitor totem should stun someone who manages to kill it before it goes off, even if only a 2 sec stun or something. Gives them a interesting choice, eat the stun, or try and get out and risk the shaman moving it onto them, etc.

Another good candidate could be SBT. Maybe destroying it causes you to be silenced and disarmed for 4 secs. Again, some choice of burn through the shield or eat the silence/disarm so my teamates can burn without a shield, etc.

But putting that backlash on every totem would be overkill in my mind.

[Protoman]

Hey Protoman, thank you for that interesting post. I agree with you that a more indepth resource would be a cool thing. But focusing on elements for all specs is probelmatic if you have a specc called "Elemental". It sort of washs it out. Why not concentrate more on spirits for enhancment? Spirit Wolfs have been a big part of our identity for quite a while, so I think it would make sense to further stress this to set Enhancment more strictly apart from ele and resto. Also for me personally, wind and spirits are somehow related to each other. You can't see it, but you can feel its impact.

Adding Rolling Thunder as a resource to ele would be cool. It would be nice to have some synergies with other spells to add some utility or other side effects. As we already have a dispel protection -30% haste is huge- that would be pretty much obsolete.

How ever, I disagree with what you propose for enhancmenet. One of the biggest differences between ele and enhancmenet currently is, that ele is providing big numbers and enhance frequent ones. Taking away this difference will just further smoothen the borders between the two specs. Enhancmenet does not need high burst. It needs the tools to stick on our foes arses and slice them with our axes while melting their faces.

Yea, well I meant focus and enhance certain elemental aspects, not necessarily limit specs to only certain elements.....Enh for example already uses just about every element, including frost in PVP....really I just want to see more frost spells, even on a CD, with some unique and interesting effects. Spirits for Enhance is a good idea though, wouldn't mind something more from that theme along with improving our only current spirit ability by buffing Feral Spirits to actually do some damage.

Rolling Thunder is already kind of like a mini resource, or atleast a "combo stacking" mechanic.....that technically stacks faster with haste since you can get more LB's out, and they can hold the fulm charges for timed burst whenever they need to push for a kill. It is a cool little mechanic, only thing I think should be changed is the mana regen to proc off more sources from Ele like also shocks and mebbe LvB since those spells are used more often in PVP and can be instant, so could help with ele's current mana problems in PVP.

Enhance does have a constant, frequent use of abilities but I think you are wrong about Enhance not having big numbers.....after all LL does like 100k crits and way more then LvB ever did, we got one of the hardest hitting attacks in the game. The only prob with this is in PVP we can't "store" this burst like ele does with fulm, we need to use it right away on CD to keep up our normal damage since we are CD based and all attacks gotta be used right away to sustain DPS. That's why I tried to make our new frost spell also stack up like fulm, and able to just hold onto a full stack for when we want to time burst for a kill and unleash it to string a few strikes together, including a CD reset for bonus SS or LL which would add the unpredictable burst.

So Enhance can def do big numbers, but is missing a way to time burst.....as for "staying in your face", I do think we need a real gap closer....ULF FB or GW along with Frozen Power is basically what we have to use right now, but a 2 step gap closer and not instant.....would have liked to see a real mobility talent tier, like remove the totem talents by making totemic projection baseline and buffing base shaman HP/defenses and just turn that tier into a mobility tier with 3 unique ways to close gaps/escape.......windwalk totem could be moved down there for 1, then one talent that gives an instant gap closer, and the other an even more super GW so you choose between an instant mobility tool on a CD, or a mobility tool on no CD with GW that has an extra sprint or some other effect added to it.

it's a little bit ot but just wan to write something about totems as often we claim that they can destroy them with one swing. I asked my self very often why the hell did blizzard not implemented some debuff that the mighty totem slayer gets when he/she destroys a totem. like the old stone claw totem which stuns them just for everything. destroy a fire totem = you will burn some seconds. you destroy a mtt = you have increased resource costs for some seconds... let the imagination go on you know what I mean. this would be funny really

Dunno bout negative effects for killing totems, but totems in general should be harder to kill esp if they have a longer CD. PVP should be balanced on group play like bgs and 3v3, yet most of our totems can be killed by any one player and one spell or melee swing......should take a focused effort by group with atleast 2-3 direct attacks to kill a totem.....I think all totems with CD of 45sec + should have 5% HP (so capacitor too), plus SBT and Stormlash at 10%HP. Makes sense to me, the whole enemy group should have to react to a totem and kill it, not just one person mouseover it with an instant cast then get right back to dpsing you.

[Nebria]

Yeah i wouldn't mind something being done, but it has to be done carefully with balance in mind, and need not be applied to every totem (for example if only 1 or 2 totems had "dispel protection" in the same way that only 1 or 2 dots/ 1 hot do, that could be useful)

For example I definitely think something like Capacitor totem should stun someone who manages to kill it before it goes off, even if only a 2 sec stun or something. Gives them a interesting choice, eat the stun, or try and get out and risk the shaman moving it onto them, etc.

Another good candidate could be SBT. Maybe destroying it causes you to be silenced and disarmed for 4 secs. Again, some choice of burn through the shield or eat the silence/disarm so my teamates can burn without a shield, etc.

But putting that backlash on every totem would be overkill in my mind.

Yes you are right. Protecting some special totems is some good idea. I like it. +1

[Irisel]

I never understood why we don't get our own version of "Wild Imps," summoning baby elementals to do some damage for us, from a proc.

[DrakeWurrum]

If it was up to me, Flametongue Weapon and Lava Burst Would be Elemental-only.

Lava Burst will be Ele exclusive in MoP, last I checked (could have changed, I ain't checked for months), although I can't remember if Chain Heal is exclusive to Resto.

[Radux]

Lava Burst will be Ele exclusive in MoP, last I checked

Restoration have access to lava burst, as well. Enhancement don't get it.

[Protoman]

Restoration have access to lava burst, as well. Enhancement don't get it.

They should have let Resto keep FN off FLS too, their only aoe now is basically magma totem and CL on a 3sec CD.....pretty lame with no form of instant aoe, see no reason to remove it from them...enh will still be better cause we can ramp up faster by spreading 4 FLS w. LL.

[Radux]

They should have let Resto keep FN off FLS too, their only aoe now is basically magma totem and CL on a 3sec CD.....pretty lame with no form of instant aoe, see no reason to remove it from them...enh will still be better cause we can ramp up faster by spreading 4 FLS w. LL.

Really I see no reason that Restoration really needs AoE at all. If they want to contribute (needed dps/bored on farm/whatever), they still do have Magma and CL. While it's true that Druids/Priests have a much more efficient way to AoE (Hurricane/MindSear), Paladins are left with nothing outside of the potential of their level 90 talent.

Different classes will be different, I guess. Not every class needs to exact same tools.

[Protoman]

Really I see no reason that Restoration really needs AoE at all. If they want to contribute (needed dps/bored on farm/whatever), they still do have Magma and CL. While it's true that Druids/Priests have a much more efficient way to AoE (Hurricane/MindSear), Paladins are left with nothing outside of the potential of their level 90 talent.

Different classes will be different, I guess. Not every class needs to exact same tools.

Yea I guess but holy pallys have never really had much aoe cept consecrate....resto has had better aoe when all shaman shared alot of the same mechanics like magma+FN, or FLS+FN. I just didn't really see any reason to remove it, it's always useful to have a good instant aoe dps spell, plenty of times when you are solo or in a 5man dungeon and your aoe helps things go more smoothly. Plus they are trying to get healers to dps anyways with stuff like TC and LB....so why not encourage healers to use both single target and aoe spells? I'm actually surprised that holy has zero aoe abilities at all, not even consecrate (they got an aoe seal tho but works off melee attacks) and that lvl 90 ability is on a 20 sec CD. Would have thought that some basic aoe abilities for all classes, even healers, is something they would try and include....just for stuff like pvp, solo questing, or dungeons.

[Keiyra]

If you are having to aoe mobs while soloing as a healer, you are either in a great deal of trouble or facing mobs a few/several levels lower than you.
Magma Totem and CL 3sec cd have been plenty when i felt the need to aoe in a 5 man or while raiding (trash/farm boss adds, etc)

[Protoman]

If you are having to aoe mobs while soloing as a healer, you are either in a great deal of trouble or facing mobs a few/several levels lower than you.
Magma Totem and CL 3sec cd have been plenty when i felt the need to aoe in a 5 man or while raiding (trash/farm boss adds, etc)

Magma maybe, but CL is a huge waste of mana. I didn't see any good reason to remove FN from Resto since Enh's version would still be superior...it just gave Resto a form of instant AoE that was pretty useful and could help out alot to quickly kill aoe mobs or throw in some aoe dps for raids/dungeons.....and in PVP there are random periods of aoe like hunter snake traps or I think the new warlock imp swarm. It's just a nice tool to have with no real reason to remove it......on one side they want healers to do some extra DPS like TC to make LB mana positive instead of negative, so add some single target damage.....but then why remove your main form of aoe damage? Extra damage is extra damage.