Cataclysm has destroyed raiding

[Nerio]

Guilds that were used to the "Stand in fire, AoE and win" mentality of LK raiding got a wake up call when blizzard over tuned the first tier of content for cataclysm.

Did you kill freya+3, firefighter, yogg 0, deathwhisper, saurfang, putricide, sindragosa, and heroic lich king before they were all nerfed repeatedly? I'm guessing not, because if you stood in the fire on mimiron you'd die in a couple seconds.

Raiding in wrath wasn't as easy as everyone wants to make it out to be. The first tier of cata had maybe 2 or 3 fights that rivaled the top 8 or so wrath encounters.

[Chrno]

Uh. It had probably one of, if not the best raiding tiers in the game. Tier 11 was on par and in some ways better than Tier 8. Most hardcore raiding guild members (25m) would agree. It was challenging, varied and had a TON of bosses, including a super fun fight in Sinestra. Tier 12 was kind of a disappointment, with 6 easy-ish bosses and one giant cock block of a boss.

I agree, somewhat
T11 is on par with Ulduar and the best raids from TBC.

T11 had many amazing fights on hardmode and it made my guild really bloom up for a while having 35+ online at prime time is amazing. The dungeons itself were really lame, but the fights made up for that! Magmaw, atramedes, neffy, Tot4w, sinestra, council, 2 drakes. Those fights were really amazing.

Ulduar's dungeon layout was amazing and the fights were alright. A combination of the 2 would've been total win .

Off topic: Both CATA and WotLK had 1 good raid. I pretty much disliked everyone else these 2 expansions put forth. (Though i must admit i loved 3Dsarth and the other dragon 6min kill aswell).

[Flaks]

GC himself saying that he loved the BC raiding system...hmmm...

Gets to my point that Blizzard no longer makes games that THEY prefer.

[Chrno]

Did you kill freya+3, firefighter, yogg 0, deathwhisper, saurfang, putricide, sindragosa, and heroic lich king before they were all nerfed repeatedly? I'm guessing not, because if you stood in the fire on mimiron you'd die in a couple seconds.

Raiding in wrath wasn't as easy as everyone wants to make it out to be. The first tier of cata had maybe 2 or 3 fights that rivaled the top 8 or so wrath encounters.

personally thought T8 was harder then all fights WotLK had to offer minus hc lichking, Yogg 0, anub and maybe 3Dsarth.
Firefighter is overrated really

[Archidamos]

during TBC bronzebeard EU had 10+ decent 25m guilds
During WotLK we lost a few but it was still all good

Now during CATA we only have 2 left afaik

I don't think my realm will ever recover from this

You had 3 guilds that killed Heroic Lich king 25.
You had 10 guilds that deafeated one of the "big 2" besides LK (Professor or Sindy) and 24 guilds that defeated LK normal 25 (89 lootship heroic lol)

Now you have the first guild of tier 10 surviving as pure 25 in tier 13, and few others with heroic kills in 25 while their focus is in progressing 10.

Yep i dont think your realm will recover from this.
The same goes for 95% of the existing realms :S

[ThrashMetalFtw]

This expansion has been 1000000 times better than anything WotLK could have dreamt about. Yes, DS was shit. T11 was still the best raid since Ulduar, and Rag HC rivals HC LK.

Stop whining, WotLK destroyed raiding, not Cata.

[Raybourne]

you might say there was an immense cataclysm in raiding

[epLe]

The only thing able to "destroy raiding" is the raiders.

[cityguy193]

The only thing able to "destroy raiding" is the raiders.

Or the changes set by the devs

[Potentio]

It destroyed 25man raiding, yes. Just a correction I made.

[matheney2k]

Well, because its going to be a whole year before mist of pandaria comes out. What do u think people would do if there are no new content sent out? LFR has changed raiding a lot and not all of it is good. Yes, it allowed more people to raid (its insult to call lfr modes raiding but more experiencing the story), but it also broke off guilds. After it was released my guild among others were broken completly due to our members only doing the LFR modes (granted the server is casual where raiding two days was norm server wide). We could not even recruit because other guilds were suffering the same problem as well.

If your guild was broken up because of the release of LFR, then you painfully misunderstand the true issues your guild had in order for that to even happen.

[dacoolist]

Every single xpac the same post is posted over and over... Classic>TBC>WOTLK>CATA>MOP .... then you get someone five seconds later who responds with TBC>Classic>WOTLK>MOP>CATA... then on and on and on an..

[iggie]

Welcome back to this year's "Expansion Exodus!" This year, the same butthurt about the latest expansion sucking and how raiding and PvP should return to status quo.

It's the same thing every year. Back when BC came out, people left because they felt Vanilla was far better. When WoTLK came out, people left because they thought SWP and BT were the pinnacle of raiding that couldn't be topped. When Cata rolled around, LFG was in full swing, PvP was homogenized, basically think every "major" event that has happened in WoW; people complained about how things should return to how they were. This year will be no different, the end of MoP will be no different.

At the end of the line, people who thoroughly enjoy the game, no matter if casual or hardcore, will continue to enjoy the game. The people who look back and say the current expansion killed raiding or PvP just have realized that they are close to quitting.

Just quit.

TBC never lost subs pre wotlk, because TBC rocked and WOTLK looked really good.

[MrHappy]

So having almost reached the end of the line (the end of the expansion) I think we can honestly say that Cataclysm has destroyed raiding, destroyed the server's community.

Gone are the days of 25-mans guilds, now most guilds are 10-man since it's the same loot and shared lockout, except you don't really need a guild, pugging works too...

...EXCEPT, players don't even bother, why bother? LFR means you can get the same loot just on slightly lower item level and sometimes different skins.


I've seen many older raiders who quit in WoTLK returning in Cataclysm for some action. They quit shortly after Cataclysm's release, the guilds fell apart. Even guilds that used to be strong in WoTLK (25-man guilds) either disbanded or turned 10-man. Was it worth it? Did the casualization bring back 2 million subs? I doubt it.

you mean LFR destoryed raiding how 10/25 raids destoryed raiding in wrath? (case in point http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...aids-dont-work)

i think the proper argument for you OP is "Cataclysm destroyed what i was used to in previous expansion...there was change and i did not like change beacause i still want to be in the once shitty 1.0 or 2.0 release of wow"

[Zeverin]

I heard this same statement at the start of cata. Except is was about wrath. Once mists is no longer new, everyone will be preaching about how great cata was. I've been playing since vanilla. This is said at the end of every xpac...

Sorry, but no. I will not preach how great Cataclysm was. I know that for sure. You can mark my words for future memory.

You'll probably say I am part of a disgruntled vocal minority, I simply don't care.
Ghostcrawler or Tom "Kalgan" Chilton, or even that EU CM Draztal can't convince me otherwise with their rhetoric.
In my opinion, overall Cataclysm was crap. And now we need a MOP to clean that crap.

My 2 cents.

[Liliara]

Did you kill freya+3, firefighter, yogg 0, deathwhisper, saurfang, putricide, sindragosa, and heroic lich king before they were all nerfed repeatedly? I'm guessing not, because if you stood in the fire on mimiron you'd die in a couple seconds.

Raiding in wrath wasn't as easy as everyone wants to make it out to be. The first tier of cata had maybe 2 or 3 fights that rivaled the top 8 or so wrath encounters.

iirc freya +3 was never nerfed. i do however remember people killing it with their druid buff!

[rebecca191]

This expansion has been 1000000 times better than anything WotLK could have dreamt about. Yes, DS was shit. T11 was still the best raid since Ulduar, and Rag HC rivals HC LK.

Stop whining, WotLK destroyed raiding, not Cata.

Ok, so you admit that both expansions had 1 really good raid (Ulduar) and 1 that was at least decent due to the end boss (ICC/Firelands) and the rest being bad or disappointing, so it really would then come down to what the individual liked better and due to class mechanics and the themes/lore of the raids I just had way more fun raiding in WotLK than Cata. I also thought the rest of ICC minus HLK was a lot better than the rest of Firelands minus HRag. Based on what you said you give no evidence other than your personal opinion for why Cata is unquestionably better than WotLK, and so it's just an opinion, same as my view is just an opinion.

[Deadly Serious]

Raiding has became so easy, back in the day, BT wasn't even thinkable by our guild and we'd been progressing through the raids for quite some time. It only takes a week to gear up for DS now, it's ridiculous.

[Brakthir]

Raiding has became so easy, back in the day, BT wasn't even thinkable by our guild and we'd been progressing through the raids for quite some time. It only takes a week to gear up for DS now, it's ridiculous.

LOL what? The fights in BC pale in comparison to the hard modes right now. Note I said hard modes pre nerfs/buffs.

[Zephre]

Raiding has became so easy, back in the day, BT wasn't even thinkable by our guild and we'd been progressing through the raids for quite some time. It only takes a week to gear up for DS now, it's ridiculous.

BT hard? Your guild must of sucked. The only hard bosses that were around in TBC were the Sunwell and that was pre nerf.

People need to stop living in their nostalgia bubbles.