Last edited by Nitwit; 2012-08-21 at 12:48 AM.
I was explaining why MW5 Lightening Bolt is not top priority, but okay.
That's stupid.
Or Lightening Bolt was just nerfred too much.
Yeah, and in Cataclysm we clearly care about losing MW stacks. And we clearly was doing that in the name of minimazing losses.
You should try math, sometimes. Elemental Blast deals 42,036. Lightening Bolt deals 13,089. Ligthening Bolt needs to be echoed and both of them have to be critical strikes to actually deal more then non-crit Elemental Blast. And Elemental Blast can echo too. And crit. I woudn't call that "closing gaps". But you know better, okay. Stormstrike buff makes that 4-5/10 LB to be critical. Bo so does with Earth Shock.
Ah, and, overall, Stromstrike deals more damage then Elemental Blast. YAY?
Pics or it did not happen.
[User was infracted for this post]
Play nice.
Last edited by Endus; 2012-08-21 at 01:29 AM.
It's more dps than EB, so why is it stupid?
It's still way stronger than Cataclysm's lightning bolt. 95.8% of the SP coefficient, but 200% damage crits and 30% chance for duplication via echo.
See above. Cataclysm's lightning bolt is significantly weaker.
Yes. Let's try math.
Here are my shaman's self-buffed stats on the beta:
27373 AP / 15055 SP
13500 agility + 2813 crit rating = 18.33% crit (melee) / 6.98% crit (spell)
6351 mastery = 37.17% bonus fire/frost/nature damage
9817-13875 mainhand / 4908-6938 offhand weapon damage
This results in the following average hit values (post-armor mitigation):
53603.5 elemental blast
34685.1 stormstrike (MH+OH)
16842.0 lightning bolt
15982.5 earth shock
Add +6% EB damage and +30% LS/ES damage (echo):
56819.7 elemental blast
34685.1 stormstrike (MH+OH)
21894.6 lightning bolt
20777.3 earth shock
Add in crits:
0.9302(56819.7) + 0.0698(56819.7*2.06) = 61023.7 elemental blast
0.8167(34685.1) + 0.1833(34685.1*2.06) = 41424.3 stormstrike
0.6802(21894.6) + 0.3198(21894.6*2.06) = 29316.6 lightning bolt
0.6802(20777.3) + 0.3198(20777.3*2.06) = 27820.5 earth shock
LB is already up to 71% of SS's value, instead of what the original numbers implied (~49%), and that's before considering the fact that UF > EB as a level 90 talent (bringing LB up to ~85% of a SS), or that raid buffs benefit LB more than SS (+11.6% weapon damage and +6.67% melee crit vs. +24.2% LB damage and +5.00% spell crit on the character sheet), which significantly outweighs the minor advantage that SS has from raid debuffs (+4.4ish% physical damage (armor debuff) and +4% physical damage (phys. vulnerability) vs. +5% magic damage (magic vulnerability))
Last edited by Nitwit; 2012-08-21 at 01:40 AM.
Loking at simcraft, the priority doesn't change that much anyway.
What i could say defiitely is that SS and LL will still be our highest priority, maybe LL>SS under certain circumstances.
After that, obviously LB comes, UE+FS, ES. With UF i'd definitely favor UW over all MW5 since UE buffs our LB-damage.
So for me, it would be like:
SB>LL>=SS>UW>MW5>UF+FS>ES.
EB definitely impacts our play style so a lot of things changes for that, even hardcasting becomes even more important.
---------- Post added 2012-08-21 at 04:33 AM ----------
Strikes will be more important for sure. LL hits for 100% more before EotE. SS doesn#t hit for a lt more, but you should not forget that usually, when your SS is ready, the +25% crit chance debuff is gone already. So in one case, you hit LB and SS, both do nearly equal damage. In the other case you have SS and +25% crit chance on LB. Obviously the second one will win.
To be clear, "it" was this;
Cata definitely did follow the precepts of min/maxing; all expansions do. That we may have drawn different conclusions in Cata than in WotLK based on those concepts was not what Nitwit was trying to say. "Minimizing losses" is always important; this is why Elemental uses Fulmination at 8 stacks when Flame Shock is running low; not using Fulmination early means that either Flame Shock would fall off, or charges wouldn't be discharged and you could gain charges over 9, losing them. It's a decision based on that premise.
Yes, Endus, you're right, but that doesn't mean I should place MW5 above my melee strikes, and that's what Nitwit was also saying.Cata definitely did follow the precepts of min/maxing; all expansions do. That we may have drawn different conclusions in Cata than in WotLK based on those concepts was not what Nitwit was trying to say. "Minimizing losses" is always important; this is why Elemental uses Fulmination at 8 stacks when Flame Shock is running low; not using Fulmination early means that either Flame Shock would fall off, or charges wouldn't be discharged and you could gain charges over 9, losing them. It's a decision based on that premise.
Stopped reading here. If you count Echo to Lightening Bolt/Earth Shock and comprare them to Stormstrike, then why didn't you mention Stormstrike benefits form Static Shock and can trigger Windfury?Add +6% EB damage and +30% LS/ES damage (echo):
56819.7 elemental blast
34685.1 stormstrike (MH+OH)
21894.6 lightning bolt
20777.3 earth shock
Last edited by mmoc347b925a37; 2012-08-21 at 04:45 PM.
Wonder if this new enhancement would be viable somehow in 3v3 arena... any thoughts?
Also, is the talents elemental mastery usefull for enhancement? pvp wise
With my little experience in arenas, I think Enhancement will be pretty good in MoP. Will have some things like Capacitor totem that will be hard to use it to its potential, but there a lot of things that will play in favor of Enhance.
About Elemental Mastery, could have some use with Ascendance in a situation when you need burst, but then Ancestral Swiftness could be very strong too if you need to use a heal or hex and don't have MW5, and Echo of Elements can save you if it procs in a heal.
Last edited by Lavindar; 2012-08-21 at 10:26 PM. Reason: adding quote
Oh Lord have mercy!Shaman (Forums)
Stormblast now does 375% weapon damage, up from 300%.
Enhancement
Lava Lash now does 250% weapon damage, up from 200%.
Stormstrike now does 375% weapon damage, up from 300%.
If these buffs are staying for MoP, I'm gonna have so much fun at 87+ lvls when we get Ascendance and pop all the CDs in dungeon bosses whilst leveling <3 I already see the big numbers coming