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  1. #41
    Scarab Lord Robinhoodexe's Avatar
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    You pay for the brand, the (IMO) better support, the design and the OS.
    Congratulations on graduating to expert level trolling, I would stick around but I'm busy getting gay married in 13 states and performing roadside abortions while passing bills that take away people's guns while i sip superior european wine and cheese i bought with european style socialist money, arrivaderci!

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by mludd View Post
    I hope you realize that image is deliberately inflammatory, right? Whoever created it went out of their way to make Macs look bad and building your own 1337 g4m3r b4ttl3st4+10n look good...
    Real facts are inflammatory now?


    Quote Originally Posted by mludd View Post
    Now I'm curious, in which different ways is OS X "ten years behind everyone else"?

    Not the dumbest and loudest users, those exist on every platform and they say nothing about the actual technical qualities of the platform, the actual operating system. How is it "ten years behind everyone else"?
    Pre-Mountain Lion it had very weak built in security (no automatic update checking, weak ASLR, Filevault password exploits). It got better with Mountain Lion, but Windows 8 has a legitimate built in antivirus and Linux has the benefit of a completely open source environment for million of people worldwide to spot vulnerabilities.

  3. #43
    Pit Lord Wries's Avatar
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    Retina macbook pro has a screen that is pretty much in its own kind at the moment. So it's hard to say it's overpriced as there's no other laptop with a panel to compare it to. And windows' UI scaling is not really that good, so cramming a panel like that together with windows 7 might be a bad idea regardless. Also, the thing is ridiculously thin for the power it provides, and that usually costs extra.

    When I bought my macbook air recently I did it partly because I couldn't find that big price penalty. It's pretty much priced on par with other ultrabooks. If you want to configure one with a larger SSD it becomes a whole different story, with ridiculous mark ups.

    iMac is pretty much a laptop stuffed into the screen. Thing is that screen is a high resolution IPS screen that is worth something in itself. There's probably some mark up here, though. Mobility graphics cards...

    The rest of the lines I don't pay too much attention to.
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  4. #44
    One can not justify their ego with a tiny price tag.

  5. #45
    Dreadlord mludd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klutzington View Post
    The people who do not care about byte/cycle per dollar typically will buy something as a status of "wealth" or "fashion." A computer is practical, not sexy. Trying to assume a computer is sexy easily means that you are overpaying for something that you shouldn't be.

    All those "professional developers" is not very specific. I think it make more of a statement about how much money you make when you buy a Mac. Especially when you can show it off in public. Showing it off in public is why people buy it. I don't understand the need to "fit in" with people by showing off my status out in public. You don't see individuals with Lenovos or Toshibas showing off their case, even though the hardware is = to a Mac.

    I don't think the difference in the metal casings is worth 2x the price. The only excuse I ever see coming from a Mac user as to why they didn't buy a PC is: "it's more user-friendly" or "it's better." Ya know, after the 6th year of using a "user-friendly" machine, I don't think it needs to be user friendly anymore.
    Actually, you're making a pretty bold assumption that a lot of anti-fanboys make, you're assuming that owners of Apple computers use them to "show off". This reminds me of skinny guys who bitch about how fit guys go around "flexing" even when they're obviously not "flexing", they're just fit. It's all in your head, man.

    I've never seen anyone "show off" a Mac, most people I know who own Macs are developers or work in IT. Those who don't work in these fields and who I know own Macs are pretty normal in every conceivable way.
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  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Festisio View Post
    Then you have the people who like to shout that OSX is a superior operating system, despite the fact that anyone even close to being a power user will end up running Parrallels at some point due to the significantly smaller amount of OSX programs compared with Windows.
    Sorry, I don't usually get involved in these arguments, but this claim is utter rubbish! I've been using Macs for about 10yrs and have only ever used VM software to fire up Windows while supporting relatives, because I can no longer remember what everything looks like off the top of my head.

    Oh, I'm not a power user? Right now my system's running Apache (web server), MySQL (database server), Subversion (version control system), Cornerstone (GUI for Subversion), Safari (browser, currently 11 tabs), Mail, iTunes, Pages (word processor), Numbers (spreadsheet), 2 Terminal windows (command line), several VIM sessions (text editor), Skype, Adium (instant messaging), OmniOutliner Professional and VLC (so I can watch some AVIs while I work).

    I'm making some code changes to a client's CGI-based website which is hooked into their database. They're a 100% Windows house, but I've never once needed it in my workings with them.

    It's very, very rare that I can't find a native OSX app to do what I need/want.

  7. #47
    Scarab Lord Robinhoodexe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klutzington View Post
    The people who do not care about byte/cycle per dollar typically will buy something as a status of "wealth" or "fashion." A computer is practical, not sexy. Trying to assume a computer is sexy easily means that you are overpaying for something that you shouldn't be.

    All those "professional developers" is not very specific. I think it make more of a statement about how much money you make when you buy a Mac. Especially when you can show it off in public. Showing it off in public is why people buy it. I don't understand the need to "fit in" with people by showing off my status out in public. You don't see individuals with Lenovos or Toshibas showing off their case, even though the hardware is = to a Mac.

    I don't think the difference in the metal casings is worth 2x the price. The only excuse I ever see coming from a Mac user as to why they didn't buy a PC is: "it's more user-friendly" or "it's better." Ya know, after the 6th year of using a "user-friendly" machine, I don't think it needs to be user friendly anymore.
    Some people like the design of their products. Same reason why some people like ferraris.
    Congratulations on graduating to expert level trolling, I would stick around but I'm busy getting gay married in 13 states and performing roadside abortions while passing bills that take away people's guns while i sip superior european wine and cheese i bought with european style socialist money, arrivaderci!

  8. #48
    Warchief sizzlinsauce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravlon View Post
    This image is very convincing. Even though I personally don't have much experience with Macs. So don't bash me if you feel offended by that.
    that picture hits it on the nail. even though he used the word "bended" instead of bent

  9. #49
    Dreadlord mludd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Articuno View Post
    Real facts are inflammatory now?
    When you twist facts to spin them a certain way and throw in random half-truths and outdated facts then yes, that's being inflammatory.




    Pre-Mountain Lion it had very weak built in security (no automatic update checking, weak ASLR, Filevault password exploits). It got better with Mountain Lion, but Windows 8 has a legitimate built in antivirus and Linux has the benefit of a completely open source environment for million of people worldwide to spot vulnerabilities.
    Actually, automatic update checks were there, it just didn't install them automatically but instead told you there were updates available and asked if you wanted to install them. The first thing I turned off with 10.8 was automatic update installs because I want to know what's being installed and when.

    As for ASLR, good point. But that and Filevault bug that only mattered under fairly specific conditions aren't really enough in my eyes to claim that OS X is "ten years behind everyone else". And very large parts of OS X are open source (essentially all of Darwin and a bunch of other stuff).
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  10. #50
    Fluffy Kitten Badpaladin's Avatar
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    You pay for Apple's profit margins. They didn't become the most profitable company in the world out of thin air.
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  11. #51
    Pit Lord Wries's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aliessil View Post
    Sorry, I don't usually get involved in these arguments, but this claim is utter rubbish! I've been using Macs for about 10yrs and have only ever used VM software to fire up Windows while supporting relatives, because I can no longer remember what everything looks like off the top of my head.
    So in a way you supported his point since you've used it!
    Last edited by Wries; 2012-08-01 at 06:46 PM.
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  12. #52
    Dreadlord mludd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wries View Post
    So in a way you supported his point since you've used it!
    Actually no. The claim was that all OS X power users would eventually have to use Windows in one way or another due to lack of software, he refuted this point and added that the only times he's used Windows in a VM it has been to help others who are using Windows because he himself could not remember the exact location of some menu that MS probably moved every other service pack just to see what happens.
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  13. #53
    Elemental Lord Gheld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sizzlinsauce View Post
    that picture hits it on the nail. even though he used the word "bended" instead of bent
    Well let's not start bendeding the argument into one about proper grammar.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by mludd View Post
    When you twist facts to spin them a certain way and throw in random half-truths and outdated facts then yes, that's being inflammatory.
    What facts are twisted? Where are the half-truths?




    Quote Originally Posted by mludd View Post
    As for ASLR, good point. But that and Filevault bug that only mattered under fairly specific conditions aren't really enough in my eyes to claim that OS X is "ten years behind everyone else". And very large parts of OS X are open source (essentially all of Darwin and a bunch of other stuff).
    The core OS components and the vast majority of applications for it aren't open source. And yes, while I also agree that it's not ten years behind as of Mountain Lion, it's also only comparable to Windows 8 and Linux because of the default setting to block non-App Store programs. If that setting is disabled, then people are open to a whole growing world of malware and trojans on an OS without built in heuristic virus detection.

  15. #55
    Pandaren Monk Klutzington's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badpaladin View Post
    You pay for Apple's profit margins. They didn't become the most profitable company in the world out of thin air.
    We are talking about Macs, not all of Apple products. They are not the most profitable company in the world. They are top in the US, but not the world. The reason Apple became such a big name is synonymous with the fact that they released iPod's and iPhone's at a right place right time kind of deal. iPod's are not really matched in todays market, iPhone's used to be #1. With the Samsung Galaxy SIII (and that series being out), it clearly isn't on top anymore.

    The iPod and the iPhone are the top 2 reasons why Apple became profitable.

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-01 at 02:55 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravlon View Post
    This image is very convincing. Even though I personally don't have much experience with Macs. So don't bash me if you feel offended by that.
    No. That image isn't right at all. I have a mac, so that image is false.

    /pray to the Mac gods.

  16. #56
    Bloodsail Admiral Decagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mludd View Post
    The thing about Mac pricing is that it's not quite as extravagant as some people like to tell themselves (and anyone else unlucky enough to be in earshot of them).

    For example, when the mid-2010 27" iMac refresh happened it was actually priced very competitively. At the time I was looking to buy a new main workstation and the only way I could get a similar (at-the-time-latest-gen (just released) CI7, 27" IPS monitor etc) setup for less than 90% of the iMac's price was if I bought parts from several different places and pretty much only looked at cycles/bytes per dollar. Any pre-built machines with comparable hardware + 27" IPS monitor came out to approximately the same as the iMac. So, I like OS X, not because I'm retarded, gay or blinded by fanboyism but because it's a modern UNIX operating system that requires very little tweaking or configuration. Yes, I bought that iMac, it still works like a charm and I have no regrets.

    Now, had I waited a few months the iMac would still have had the same price while a DIY machine would've been a couple of hundred dollars cheaper but my point is, due to timing issues it was actually a good buy.

    A lot of the younger gamers who complain about Macs also seem to make a few mistakes in their reasoning:
    1) Their use case is everyone's use case. Not everyone only cares about bytes/cycles per dollar, there are other factors as well, including system integration which is something Macs are still much much better at than your average OEM Wintel machine.
    2) That OS X is as locked down as iOS, simply not true in any way, it's definitely more open than Windows (if you are about to reply with some rant about how this statement proves I'm a brainwashed fanboy I'd like you to first investigate properly how much of Windows is open source, now compare this to OS X. Also, don't bring up Quicktime video, that's a long-dead format, Apple's defaults for video and audio these days are MPEG-4 and AAC. Oh yeah, and it's been quite a while since they were able to negotiate away the DRM from the music they sell through the iTunes store. And once again, we're talking about OS X, not iOS).
    3) That anyone who owns a Mac is computer illiterate. Just go to any developer conference and look at the laptops used by professional developers there, it's very likely a very high percentage of them are using Macbook Pro laptops running OS X. This obviously isn't because developers are generally more computer illiterate than the average teenage gamer but because a modern UNIX system running on hardware it was specifically tailored to run on is attractive to developers and if you're making $75k/year or more and you buy a new laptop every couple of years then forking out another few hundred dollars for it to better fit what you want makes sense, after all, you're probably going to be using it for hours every day.
    Wasn't there a thread here awhile ago that showed a video of the GW2 studio and every single last computer was Dell?

    If you don't care about performance:cost then you ARE just buying the computer for the logo.

    Give some examples of the "all developers use macs" theory.

  17. #57
    the simple answer as to why they are so expensive is that it is because they can be and people will buy them. overall, not counting the mac pro's, their other models have steadily been coming down in price over the years to be comprable with other big name brand pc's. you still pay a premium to have the shiney apple on the back of your laptop screen.

    they marketed themselves perfectly, as the cool luxury computer to have, their OS is very slick and user friendly, and the computers themselves always look incredible, so in a world where that of course matters, they finally (thanks to the ipod and iphone) started gaining significant market share and are making money hand over fist on their computers now.

    i have both mac and pc's, and like them both, and appreciate the strengths of each. overall i do think osx is a nicer operating system than windows, but it's much much nicer to game on windows and even web surf and such. but for audio stuff mac wins hands down as it does for video editing, photoshop, and almost anything really demanding of a system outside of gaming.

  18. #58
    Pandaren Monk Klutzington's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Articuno View Post
    What facts are twisted? Where are the half-truths?

    Yeah, they aren't there. The image compares the differences in computer being bought vs. what comes with them. The example of Macs came from what was lacking, or what was thought to be superior about them. Yet it exposed the fallacy in those thoughts.

  19. #59
    Pit Lord Wries's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravlon View Post
    This image is very convincing. Even though I personally don't have much experience with Macs. So don't bash me if you feel offended by that.
    It's constructed by some kind of fanboy extremist, no doubt about it. See how it puts apple down for using foxconn parts while leaving out that foxxconn actually makes parts for multitudes of other manufacturers. It says foxconn on multiple parts on my motherboards. Foxconn are BIG.

    A sheet just like this can be made by an apple fanboy, and could be perceived just as convincing by some.
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  20. #60
    The Lightbringer Noobadin's Avatar
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    Because you're paying for that fancy Apple logo on that snazzy metal case.

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