Thread: Inc Ele Nerfs?

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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nebria View Post
    can somebody tell me how to play wih PE?
    The fireelemental has a cd to buff my dmg by 5% (hope the number is right). it is channeled (during that time the fe is not attacking right?) and has 10s cd. so does that mean I use this on cd all the time?
    5% surely won't be enough to offset the damage loss of having the elemental not attacking your target (even worse for enhance because of losing that much LL damage). It's limited use to phases where the elemental cannot attack or healers wanting the buff.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
    Arcane Mages are already extremely underpowered
    Compared to frost, maybe, but they were still simming ahead of pretty much everyone except for some of the other classes/specs that I also nominated for the nerf bat. And that's with Lhivera thinking the sim is playing arcane poorly, by the way. Can't really say how they were performing in-game because most mages were spec'd into frost before this beta build (as they should have been, since frost was theorized to be even more overpowered).

    Quote Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
    Ele Shamans are slightly underpowered too.
    They might be, although I haven't seen any in-game evidence to verify this. I'm more inclined to believe their SimC module just needs more attention, based on the elemental shaman raid parses I've seen. And whether Elemental is behind of not, the Primal Elementalist talent is still over-budget compared to the other level 90 talents for both dps specs.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klatar View Post
    5% surely won't be enough to offset the damage loss of having the elemental not attacking your target (even worse for enhance because of losing that much LL damage). It's limited use to phases where the elemental cannot attack or healers wanting the buff.
    Yea thats right. You should be using your FE's regular attacks...make sure they autocasting or whatever so they use all their abilities, and just have it attack like you norm would. To get the most out of this talent prob use Earth elem afterwards as well even if its just a minor DPS increase. The channel is only when your fire elem can't attack, like an air phase where boss is out of melee range, so it can channel you and you can still attack boss and get some bonus %damage.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Protoman View Post
    Yea thats right. You should be using your FE's regular attacks...make sure they autocasting or whatever so they use all their abilities, and just have it attack like you norm would. To get the most out of this talent prob use Earth elem afterwards as well even if its just a minor DPS increase. The channel is only when your fire elem can't attack, like an air phase where boss is out of melee range, so it can channel you and you can still attack boss and get some bonus %damage.
    It essentially gives you the damage that would have been dealt by the Fire Elemental (non-talented) via the buff, although Immolate is a ranged spell so it should be cast when possible anyway.

  5. #45
    Either most of the shamans posting in this thread saying ele is in the middle or behind are doing something completely wrong or i'm doing something right because i'm up there with hunters and boomkins on most fights on 25m beta testing, always top 4 on the metres depending on how long the attempt went.

    I always end up top 3 at the end being beat by 2 op hunters by 4 mil dmg because they're broken atm
    Last edited by Roosky; 2012-08-02 at 11:13 PM.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I don't know about Elemental, but Balance Druids are going to get punched in the gut. They severely need to, because the Eclipse system and Glyph of Moonbeast makes them the most OP spec in beta right now.
    It's our turn to be OP.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Roosky View Post
    Either most of the shamans posting in this thread saying ele is in the middle or behind are doing something completely wrong or i'm doing something right because i'm up there with hunters and boomkins on most fights on 25m beta testing, always top 4 on the metres depending on how long the attempt went.

    I always end up top 3 at the end being beat by 2 op hunters by 4 mil dmg because they're broken atm
    There's a third option (though I don't mean to suggest it is any more valid) - that the hunters and boomkins are doing something wrong.

  8. #48
    When they're above me? I don't think so...

  9. #49
    Deleted
    Im doing 10 man raiding, regularly ranking in a guild where half the members are from Angered and we will be pushing for ranking in the top 20. I wouldn't say my guild is bad. The only class in the raid I struggle to beat was warlocks pre-nerf (was always number 1). I am fairly even with everyone else, often beating, though our Hunter is the one most often taking number 1. I would from personal experience say we are in a very good place, easily in the best position we have ever been in during my raiding experience (Naxx 2.0 - Now). Not just in numbers but in feel too.

    I would not say we are in any way overpowered though. Maybe a nerf to Ancestral Guidance could be brought in PvE, especially on any fight where there is AoE or cleave during a high damage phase (for example in Mogu'shan theres a boss where on 10 man 3 people go into another zone and there is a bunch of damage and 3-7 little adds in the zone to kill that rapidly spawn, you get out of the zone when you are healed to 100%, normally you send 2 dps and 1 healer you can send 3 dps in there - you get a DPS/HPS buff when you come back out - if one of them is an ele shaman because it heals for so much).

    Quote Originally Posted by Nebria View Post
    can somebody tell me how to play wih PE?
    The fireelemental has a cd to buff my dmg by 5% (hope the number is right). it is channeled (during that time the fe is not attacking right?) and has 10s cd. so does that mean I use this on cd all the time?
    You dont use the buff as it stops the fire ele DPSing, the buff is purely there for when for whatever reason the elemental is unable to DPS (boss out of range or something).

  10. #50
    After what they did to affliction warlocks you should have known they could not leave all you guys up there

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Undefetter View Post

    You dont use the buff as it stops the fire ele DPSing, the buff is purely there for when for whatever reason the elemental is unable to DPS (boss out of range or something).
    Honestly? the buff is there for healers. If there is a phase where FE cant attack, we wont summon him for the phase in the first place...

  12. #52
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarevokcz View Post
    Honestly? the buff is there for healers. If there is a phase where FE cant attack, we wont summon him for the phase in the first place...
    If it was there purely for healers it wouldn't increase damage done. In PvE you wont ever use the buff as DPS, in PvP you could use it if they root your elemental or something. Its a niche channel that likely wont be used much.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarevokcz View Post
    Honestly? the buff is there for healers. If there is a phase where FE cant attack, we wont summon him for the phase in the first place...
    Actually the buff is there to make it so you still use your Fire Elemental cooldown as per normal, rather than not using it at all.

  14. #54
    You can use it in arena from what i've seen on beta when you have PE since it's a pet

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by binkenstein View Post
    Actually the buff is there to make it so you still use your Fire Elemental cooldown as per normal, rather than not using it at all.
    according to your sim, shaman himself is doing ~83k dps, 5% of that is about 4k dps, Searing totem is 5k dps, so why wouldnt we delay FE to get full benefit? And if we cant get full uptime on FE in the fight, because phases are too short, shouldnt we use glyph to get full uptime or simply not use PE talent?

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarevokcz View Post
    according to your sim, shaman himself is doing ~83k dps, 5% of that is about 4k dps, Searing totem is 5k dps, so why wouldnt we delay FE to get full benefit? And if we cant get full uptime on FE in the fight, because phases are too short, shouldnt we use glyph to get full uptime or simply not use PE talent?
    /nitpick It's a model not a sim

    There's actually an Empower option in there, that uses it in between Immolate casts. I should have worked it better to show it's usefulness when you can't use FE, but I'll look at that for a future update. If you enable it you see PE has a small ~100 or so DPS gain. This would be on top of the base non-PE Fire Elemental DPS that you would otherwise not have access to. It's not just as simple as you're making it out to be.

    Yes, glyph of FE would be useful in those situations, but those would be fight specific cases rather than the generalised model (There's also the possibility that Glyph of FE will be a dps gain for Trolls vs the perfect-fight-length requirement for other races).

  17. #57
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by binkenstein View Post
    /nitpick It's a model not a sim

    There's actually an Empower option in there, that uses it in between Immolate casts. I should have worked it better to show it's usefulness when you can't use FE, but I'll look at that for a future update. If you enable it you see PE has a small ~100 or so DPS gain. This would be on top of the base non-PE Fire Elemental DPS that you would otherwise not have access to. It's not just as simple as you're making it out to be.

    Yes, glyph of FE would be useful in those situations, but those would be fight specific cases rather than the generalised model (There's also the possibility that Glyph of FE will be a dps gain for Trolls vs the perfect-fight-length requirement for other races).
    There wouldn't be burst situations where the 5% dmg simply out-performances the FE itself? Like during Ascendance, or if we get a +dmg buff similar to what we get from the boss just before Ragnaros(the cleaving scorpion, sorry for the name)

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Enaina View Post
    There wouldn't be burst situations where the 5% dmg simply out-performances the FE itself? Like during Ascendance, or if we get a +dmg buff similar to what we get from the boss just before Ragnaros(the cleaving scorpion, sorry for the name)
    Generally not, as the effective DPS of Primal Fire Elemental is ~41,000 (ie: when it's up) so you'd need to be pumping out somewhere in the order of 820,000 DPS with Empower for that to be effective.

    I'm not sure if damage buffs like that will also transfer to the pets too, which should be resolved with the new non-guardian dynamic stat update system. (I'm checking with a few hunters on twitter)

  19. #59
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by binkenstein View Post
    Generally not, as the effective DPS of Primal Fire Elemental is ~41,000 (ie: when it's up) so you'd need to be pumping out somewhere in the order of 820,000 DPS with Empower for that to be effective.
    Too bad, that would have added some skill cap to the spec. I cannot tell how much 820k is, but imagine if the % buff was in a spot where you would actively have to turn that off and on, depending on your own DPS and what spells the FE itself has got ready.

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