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  1. #1

    A f2p mmo that is NOT p2w ... that is all we (= I and assuming everyone else) want :(

    League of Legends is , besides an awesome game, an example of how it SHOULD be done.
    - All champions are available through IP ( game currency earned by playing) and it ISNT a grindfest
    - Runes ( the only things that can give you a strong advantage) are not buyable with RP ( buyable currency)
    - RP is only used for speeding up the rather trivial leveling ,getting champions faster and COSMETIC changes.

    It is ... perfection, or atleast extremely close to perfection.

    So why is there no MMO ( that I know of) with a similar currency system?
    A game allowing you to play the entire game for free, buy cosmetics for RL money and best of all: ISNT PAY 2 WIN!
    " He has never wanted to occupy the throne himself; he prefers the backseat – more room to spread out, you see. "
    - J.K. Rowling

  2. #2
    Pit Lord Martinussen's Avatar
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    p2w will attract the kids with the code for their parents visa. They'll just spend to become the 1337 warriors and win everything.

    But GW2 i almost like that, afaik. There is the onetime price for buying it.
    "When you want to succeed as bad as you want to breathe, then you'll be successful"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsSC2vx7zFQ

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by matiasve View Post
    League of Legends is , besides an awesome game, an example of how it SHOULD be done.
    - All champions are available through IP ( game currency earned by playing) and it ISNT a grindfest
    - Runes ( the only things that can give you a strong advantage) are not buyable with RP ( buyable currency)
    - RP is only used for speeding up the rather trivial leveling ,getting champions faster and COSMETIC changes.

    It is ... perfection, or atleast extremely close to perfection.

    So why is there no MMO ( that I know of) with a similar currency system?
    A game allowing you to play the entire game for free, buy cosmetics for RL money and best of all: ISNT PAY 2 WIN!
    So what does the company that makes such an MMO get out of it? LoL gets exposure, to be a part of eSports, and a bunch of random people buying characters and costumes. Almost everyone I know that plays LoL purchased at least their first character. So what does an MMO company that offers a F2P MMO with no "Pay to win" options get out of the deal? Server bills?

  4. #4
    Riot is still making a fuckton of money on the skins because it has a gigantic amount of players. Therefore, it can sustain itself. A smaller company that would develop the game you describe would go bust in a matter of months because they are generating not nearly enough revenue to sustain the servers let alone pay for the development of the game.

  5. #5
    I am Murloc! SirRobin's Avatar
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    I actually prefer P2P instead of F2P since it, usually, isn't. P2P avoids the risk of P2W much better than F2P.
    Sir Robin, the Not-Quite-So-Brave-As-Sir-Lancelot.
    Who had nearly fought the Dragon of Angnor.
    Who had almost stood up to the vicious Chicken of Bristol.
    And who had personally wet himself, at the Battle of Badon Hill.

  6. #6
    While I agree with you, I will say that a lot more goes into the upkeep of an MMO. The scale of content updates in an MMO are usually significantly larger than the scale of content updates in a game like LoL. I'm looking forward to GW2 because it's close to this.

  7. #7
    GW2 should be most interesting if that's the case.
    I hope it'll be available through steam.

    Author of: Goggle Cat Comics.

  8. #8
    Aion
    Vindictus
    Continent of the 9th
    City of Heroes
    Champions Online
    Everquest 2
    DC Universe Online
    Lineage 2

    There are a few non pay to win MMO's out there.

    F2P = P2Wis a misconception. Yes, there are some P2W MMO's out there, but they're in the overwhelming minority, and are generally the smaller niche import titles. The big title F2P MMO's you see, and most of the smaller ones as well, don't sell power through their stores.

    FYI selling experience boosts isn't selling power. Selling a temporary 10% hp buff in the store that you can also acquire in-game without paying a single penny isn't selling power. Selling power is selling "Sword of awesome" that does 500 dps, when "Sword of mediocre" does 300dps and is the best sword you can acquire in-game.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusherO0 View Post
    Selling a temporary 10% hp buff in the store that you can also acquire in-game without paying a single penny isn't selling power.
    Gotta somewhat disagree with this, it depends how easy the buff is to get. Buying stuff you can acquire ingame is a major shortcut and imo p2w.

  10. #10
    Moderator Remilia's Avatar
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    If by F2P you mean that there is no initial purchase, than what Edge said would basically be the choices.

    B2P most people are going about GW2.

  11. #11
    Going full on "pay to win" is a bad business model. The majority of players in f2p games do not pay, and very few people spend a lot of money, so to turn a profit you need to get a lot of players.

    When you haven't paid for a game the barriers to exit are much lower, you've got no money invested in the game so if the first impression is poor, you're much more likely to leave. If you're jumping into a game and find that you absolutely cannot be competitive unless you pay up, then you're not going to have much fun and will probably stop playing.

    On the flip side, if everything is easy to get without paying, or paying nets you no advantage what so ever, then why pay? Everyone cites the TF2 hats but that is a special case, TF2 hats were originally all free and rare, so attained a prestige and value of their own before you could simply buy them, I am not sure that the concept would have been nearly as successful had TF2 launched as a F2P game funded by selling hats.

    So you have to strike a balance, you need to make paying attractive enough that people will actually pay, but not cause so much interference that it discourages new players. It is a difficult balance to strike and many developers get it wrong, but its a relatively young business model and nobody really knows what they're doing yet.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Sting View Post
    Gotta somewhat disagree with this, it depends how easy the buff is to get. Buying stuff you can acquire ingame is a major shortcut and imo p2w.
    So you'd call games like Tribes: Ascend P2W? I think your definition differs from the industry standard, then.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusherO0 View Post
    Selling a temporary 10% hp buff in the store that you can also acquire in-game without paying a single penny isn't selling power.
    This is debatable. As pointed above it depend how available such buff in game is. If you had to grind 40 hours to get the buff or buy it from store asap, would you consider that advantage?

    For example in lotro you can buy permanent stat boosts from the store. You can also get them in game, the problem is collecting all the stat boots you want can take about 6 years.

    To answer OPs question, it is simple. Selling advantage in store is more profitable.
    Last edited by Nolfster; 2012-08-02 at 07:19 PM.

  14. #14
    I think people strive more for great responsive gameplay with a whole lot of combat rpg customisations, more than its subscriptions model.

  15. #15
    I am Murloc! Thelxi's Avatar
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    I think that because P2W is just so profitable, most companies prefer that over a true FTP like LoL.

    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusherO0 View Post
    Aion
    Lineage 2

    There are a few non pay to win MMO's out there.
    Pff that is BS. I have played both games extensively for many years and right now you can buy bis gear with adena/kinah you got from selling cash shop stuff. Both games are P2W and both have a hidden monthly fee.
    Last edited by Thelxi; 2012-08-02 at 07:22 PM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusherO0 View Post
    Aion
    Vindictus
    Continent of the 9th
    City of Heroes
    Champions Online
    Everquest 2
    DC Universe Online
    Lineage 2

    There are a few non pay to win MMO's out there.

    F2P = P2Wis a misconception. Yes, there are some P2W MMO's out there, but they're in the overwhelming minority, and are generally the smaller niche import titles. The big title F2P MMO's you see, and most of the smaller ones as well, don't sell power through their stores.

    FYI selling experience boosts isn't selling power. Selling a temporary 10% hp buff in the store that you can also acquire in-game without paying a single penny isn't selling power. Selling power is selling "Sword of awesome" that does 500 dps, when "Sword of mediocre" does 300dps and is the best sword you can acquire in-game.
    This game is extremely pay to win. I have no experience with the other games but CoH is definitely pay to win.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Sting View Post
    Riot is still making a fuckton of money on the skins because it has a gigantic amount of players. Therefore, it can sustain itself. A smaller company that would develop the game you describe would go bust in a matter of months because they are generating not nearly enough revenue to sustain the servers let alone pay for the development of the game.
    Watch http://www.twitch.tv/devolore/b/327082190

    Basically, what a MMO gain from that is just like League. It can get a MASSIVE amount of people, because people can try it out for free, and if the gameplay allows, hook them up to get their friends. And it's basically the "I've been playing a lot, I can afford to buy this, but only this..... okay maybe that too" instead of "So i get all these limitations unless i give my money to them?"
    Quote Originally Posted by Bahumut5
    I don't want to call Boubouille and wake her up for something like this.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Thelxi View Post
    I think that because P2W is just so profitable, most companies prefer that over a true FTP like LoL.
    Except that the overwhelming majority of F2P MMO's AREN'T P2W. Companies frequently talk about how P2W is viewed by NA/EU consumers as unacceptable (and Russia), because it's not. P2W really isn't that profitable for the most part since you're limiting your potential audience so much, and a big component of the F2P business model is to give you the broadest market possible.

  19. #19
    Basically, the reason why LoL is so sucessful as a model is because it INCITES people to pay, instead of FORCING them to pay to have a chance at playing optimally.
    And if everyone can come and try it out for free, you can get enough people that even having 20% of people spending money on your stuff will turn a huge profit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bahumut5
    I don't want to call Boubouille and wake her up for something like this.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Ishau View Post
    This game is extremely pay to win. I have no experience with the other games but CoH is definitely pay to win.
    How so? I'm not intimately familiar with the cash shop, but when I used it I didn't notice them selling any power. Powersets? Yeah. But straight power? Not that I remember. If that's not the case though and you can provide an example of selling power though, I'll gladly remove that from my, "big title games that aren't P2W" quick list.

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