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  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    No offense but what your saying is that you cant find like minded people to play the game how you want so its our fault that you cant get in to a group. If so then obviously the community isnt ready for your way of thinking. Heres some advice though join a guild and play with people you like so you can avoid people like me, dont make me play your way
    no, its pretty much an indictment of the community who are copying WoW-type mentalities into a game where they really dont apply.

    -Btw this is from a wrath era pve frost mage who always got laughed at and bitched at right up until I kicked their arses on the dps tables(whereas I sucked at arcane or fire).....your view of optimal does not apply to everyone and does not take skill into account, and even less so in GW2 where skill and reactions is so much more important.

  2. #242
    Stood in the Fire yoomi's Avatar
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    The best build.. is the one you master.. imo. I thought you build your traits and such after how you play? I mean one build maybe be better for you who like beeing in melee, one likes condition, one like support. Its all about master your own skill and build your traits after that.. after how you as a player likes to play. Defensive/offesive/glass cannon/support all that stuff. Or have I got this all wrong? oO

    Sure I guess lets say many like to go with a condition damage build, some might try to figure it out them self's, and others are going to google for the best one :P Its how it works. Is it not?

  3. #243
    Seriously guys .....
    <<bull's charge frenzy hundred blades warrior in pvp ?>> = For the love of god , some utility skills remove stun+ while u doghe u avoid all the damage !
    <<3 elementalist in PvE ?>> = have u consider for a sec , that Regeneration doesnt multistack , and the same apply to the elementalist place-on-the-ground-healing . Or some aoe-ground-healing have 6-10 yards range , while u have to constadly move ?
    GW2 : Plzbegentle - Ruins of Surmia EU - Sylvari Engineer
    WoW: Vergin - Deathwing EU - Elf Resto Druid (27/05/05 - 02/04/12 Perma-Banned- Unhappy whinning PvP customer - whos begged from 4.1 to get rid of the RNG of Regrowth ... )
    It seems ppl have the energy to whine for a game , for not beeing exactly like their <<main>> game , while it dont have a SUB , and they dont have the courage to whine at their Game Master for slacking and producing few PvE content ...

  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by Dodrin View Post
    It's the idea that you want an (read: one) optimal setup. Guess what people like you do to my gaming experience if I don't want to play your "one" optimal setup? I don't get in groups, whether it be PvP or PvE. So yes, people who adopt your flawed reality of the game do effect others experience in the game.
    And guess what people like you do to my gaming experience? Am I to understand now that I and people like myself are insignificant bugs for you to step on in order to get your share of self-flagellating pleasure?

    Reality is, you choose what's fun for you, and I'll choose what's fun for me. If what's fun for me is not fun for you, you are free not to join me. If what's fun for you is not fun for me, I'm free to not join you.


    Problem arises typically when people like me are successful and people like you are not. So we assemble groups with requirements, and you do not meet them. Then you proceed to the boards to complain about it.


    Amazingly there are essentially no complaints of it going the other way around. People like me appear completely happy not being accepted in your circles. I do wonder, why such a clear cut difference? Could it be that we're actually enjoying ourselves without sacrificing each others' enjoyment, while you cannot enjoy with people like you, because your enjoyment is detrimental to others' enjoyment, even when they're like you?

  5. #245
    Legendary! draykorinee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arrowstorm View Post
    Honestly, I bet most won't care about builds, they will care more about the actual people. "Bring the player, not the class/profession" is finally true. If running some magic setup makes it easier to do it, then congratulations on making the dungeon easier I guess. I'll run with who I want, and take the difficulty as it is.
    Ill take that bet, theres that myth again, the GW2 community will be so far above those of other mmos, dont come to our game with your cookie cutter builds and your OP classes we are far above those selfish and horrid notions....

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by tlacoatl View Post
    the idea that there is a "strongest build" is silly with how the game works.
    cookie cutter builds arent about 'strongest', they're builds that do something that no other build does and because of it, the build has an advantage over any other build:

    HARP, SLSL, Shadowfrost are a few examples of cookie cutter builds in WoW that existed simply cuz they were builds that did stuff no other build could. HARP - 30 seconds of AR w/ 1 sec GCDs, SLSL: unmatched survivability without losing DPS, Shadowfrost ... Retarded.

  7. #247
    Old God Arrowstormen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Ill take that bet, theres that myth again, the GW2 community will be so far above those of other mmos, dont come to our game with your cookie cutter builds and your OP classes we are far above those selfish and horrid notions....
    With no care about gear, and the driving point being fun, I don't see why I would enjoy finding the easiest way to get over the mountain, when the mountain is what I want to climb, not the top. In fact, some people might go ahead and find the collection of professions that would make for the hardest climb.
    Being critical is a burden which some people loves to bear.

  8. #248
    When you start taking "cookie cutter" builds over the player, you prove yourself to be a fool.

    Guess what? That person with the obscure spec you wouldn't ever use may preform far better than another random who went online for 30 seconds and copied the first link they saw.

    Your mindset is flawed, you refuse to recognize it because you've never tried someone based on their merits.

  9. #249
    Legendary! draykorinee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arrowstorm View Post
    With no care about gear, and the driving point being fun, I don't see why I would enjoy finding the easiest way to get over the mountain, when the mountain is what I want to climb, not the top. In fact, some people might go ahead and find the collection of professions that would make for the hardest climb.
    Yeah some might but thats not just in GW2 people are always trying different things, take the naked levelling in WoW or the guy who used only blue gear on inferno it happens everywhere, GW2 is not special in having players who want to break from the norm.

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-05 at 03:22 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Dodrin View Post
    When you start taking "cookie cutter" builds over the player, you prove yourself to be a fool.

    Guess what? That person with the obscure spec you wouldn't ever use may preform far better than another random who went online for 30 seconds and copied the first link they saw.

    Your mindset is flawed, you refuse to recognize it because you've never tried someone based on their merits.
    not true i tried to convince my fried to go feral but she wanted to play boomkin, she still plays boomkin and very well, you see there are people who dont always conform in every game not just GW2

  10. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by Dodrin View Post
    When you start taking "cookie cutter" builds over the player, you prove yourself to be a fool.

    Guess what? That person with the obscure spec you wouldn't ever use may preform far better than another random who went online for 30 seconds and copied the first link they saw.

    Your mindset is flawed, you refuse to recognize it because you've never tried someone based on their merits.
    shadowfrost dks were better than unholy dks

    regardless of age, intellect, gender, birth-right.

  11. #251
    I wasnt really going to buy this Game...but the current Void in Term on Videogames took over :/

    Dare you people if it sucks!
    I would like to apologize to anyone i have not offended.
    Please be patient. I will get to you shortly.

  12. #252
    Legendary! draykorinee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knopperz View Post
    I wasnt really going to buy this Game...but the current Void in Term on Videogames took over :/

    Dare you people if it sucks!
    It doesnt so double dare...

  13. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Ill take that bet, theres that myth again, the GW2 community will be so far above those of other mmos, dont come to our game with your cookie cutter builds and your OP classes we are far above those selfish and horrid notions....
    hey, nice with the whole passive agressive attack on the GW2 community there....

    But to answer your point, I dont have a problem with cookie cutter builds in games where that makes sense (wow, swtor, to some extent rift). But GW2 is not one of those games. I'm not saying its better or worse, but in order to be able to come up wiht cookie cutter specs you need to be able to math out specs, you cant in GW2, because there is no rotation, and abilities are situational and should be used reactively not on cd to get the best effect.

    Also, how do you plan to balance survival against control against dmg? or how do you plan to weigh the utility skill such as wall of reflection? I really would be interested to know, I've done a fair amount of theory crafting when I played wow, and having played GW2 I just dont see how it can be realistically done. Yes you can do it on paper, but that all falls apart the second you hit the live game as there is no place for static rotations.

  14. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by Plzbegentle View Post
    Seriously guys .....
    <<bull's charge frenzy hundred blades warrior in pvp ?>> = For the love of god , some utility skills remove stun+ while u doghe u avoid all the damage !
    <<3 elementalist in PvE ?>> = have u consider for a sec , that Regeneration doesnt multistack , and the same apply to the elementalist place-on-the-ground-healing . Or some aoe-ground-healing have 6-10 yards range , while u have to constadly move ?
    Sir! Can I gently kiss you on the Forehead for those Words ... my Ingi loves them helpless cute HB Warris <3

    GW2 is just more group based... i think it will be really hard pugging explorable modes, without changing some skills,... and playing together like a group... but I also think, IF you play as a group it's a hell-of-a-fun ...

    Also I had to experience ... that even events are quite fun, I had the same event with a small group, and it was fun, and later there were a lot of people and it was still fun...

    i always want to help people when they fight adds,... here noone is pissed about "taking adds" or something... everyone just fights for the same team, wether you're in a group or not ... i like this ...
    Last edited by Manji; 2012-08-05 at 02:40 PM.

  15. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cranberries View Post
    cookie cutter builds arent about 'strongest', they're builds that do something that no other build does and because of it, the build has an advantage over any other build:
    That is not really the way I've always understood the term. Cookie cutter builds occur where everyone uses the same build (like a batch of cookies cut using the same form) because there are no benefits to variation. Cookie cutter builds tend to have wide applicability with little reason to deviate from them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cranberries View Post
    HARP, SLSL, Shadowfrost are a few examples of cookie cutter builds in WoW that existed simply cuz they were builds that did stuff no other build could. HARP - 30 seconds of AR w/ 1 sec GCDs, SLSL: unmatched survivability without losing DPS, Shadowfrost ... Retarded.
    These would be specialized builds, not cookie-cutter builds. SL/SL for example, while very survivable, had no burst potential.

    Just to be clear, I'm not arguing that such builds don't exist, it's just that the unusual use of the terminology has me surprised.

    Also, how have we suddenly switched to PvP? I was under the impression we were talking about PvE. WoW has/had cookie-cutter builds in PvE because of a confluence of reasons: (1) Talents being largely a numbers game, since practically all bosses are immune to status effects, (2) few talent choices that made an actual difference, and (3) difficulty to change builds.

  16. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by Plzbegentle View Post
    Seriously guys .....
    <<bull's charge frenzy hundred blades warrior in pvp ?>> = For the love of god , some utility skills remove stun+ while u doghe u avoid all the damage !
    <<3 elementalist in PvE ?>> = have u consider for a sec , that Regeneration doesnt multistack , and the same apply to the elementalist place-on-the-ground-healing . Or some aoe-ground-healing have 6-10 yards range , while u have to constadly move ?
    Bull's charge isn't stun. Regeneration stacks duration, meaning it's great to stack it. If it stacked intensity it would be a significant nerf to elementalist stacking, as bigger ticks would be overhealing.

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-05 at 03:06 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Cranberries View Post
    shadowfrost dks were better than unholy dks

    regardless of age, intellect, gender, birth-right.
    This is a fairly common misconception. As someone who played DK since they were released, including arena PvP in all brackets at reasonable successful levels, I can vouch that shadowfrost worked in exactly one bracket, and only up to a certain level. In 3s and 5s it was unholy or GTFO due to complete lack of anything to burst with, which was a hard wired requirement in these brackets back in 3.0 and 3.1 (I played in a #2 5s team for a few weeks during early 3.0 as unholy in best EU battlegroup for example). At top levels of 2v2 there was nothing but lock shaman and hunter shaman which were specifically geared to hard counter shadowfrost paladin comp. When you reached that point, you generally either switched to try to do something else, or you just played to your best ability knowing you met the stone wall of hard counter comp land.


    Same thing for SL/SL btw. It sacrificed a lot of damage to gain superior survivability. The way to counter SL/SL lock was to abuse this and only presenting him with one target to DoT up in range. Since target damage of SL/SL lock being hacked on by rogue or warrior was life bloomable. The failure came when you presented lock with two targets to DoT up in 2s and 3 targets in 3s (lock was control in 5s more so then damage and had to watch dotting not to cause polymorph failures). I still remember games in 2s in late TBC where we would kill druid's partner and then spend upwards ten minutes killing the enemy druid because my damage from just dots and my druid parner's damage was barely enough to overload his mana regen. Essentially kill were scored by howling him off pillar > fear > root while shadowbolt/starfire nuking.
    Last edited by Lucky_; 2012-08-05 at 03:10 PM.

  17. #257
    U should better watch Toldo(enginner in the BW3 or the last test , where he used the rifle kockback himself and his enemies , and used the <<utilities google>> to get back up (he has a description why he choose the googles) .
    About the Elementalist , i mean that u cant benefit from 3 heal-on the ground (damm english) . u wont get get healed x3 in 10 sec
    GW2 : Plzbegentle - Ruins of Surmia EU - Sylvari Engineer
    WoW: Vergin - Deathwing EU - Elf Resto Druid (27/05/05 - 02/04/12 Perma-Banned- Unhappy whinning PvP customer - whos begged from 4.1 to get rid of the RNG of Regrowth ... )
    It seems ppl have the energy to whine for a game , for not beeing exactly like their <<main>> game , while it dont have a SUB , and they dont have the courage to whine at their Game Master for slacking and producing few PvE content ...

  18. #258
    Quote Originally Posted by Plzbegentle View Post
    U should better watch Toldo(enginner in the BW3 or the last test , where he used the rifle kockback himself and his enemies , and used the <<utilities google>> to get back up (he has a description why he choose the googles) .
    About the Elementalist , i mean that u cant benefit from 3 heal-on the ground (damm english) . u wont get get healed x3 in 10 sec
    1. No one cares if one guy can dodge it. I'll kill his friend, then 2v1 him. Or miss it, have someone else immobilize him and kill him. It will work regardless. That is why bull's charge frenzy hundred blades warriors are a staple burst damage class you see in almost every decent organised sPvP video from BWE3.
    2. Yes, you will. You will either get separate heals for individual healing from geyser, or your regeneration will stack duration from rain. All of them stack.

  19. #259
    And guess what people like you do to my gaming experience? Am I to understand now that I and people like myself are insignificant bugs for you to step on in order to get your share of self-flagellating pleasure?

    Reality is, you choose what's fun for you, and I'll choose what's fun for me. If what's fun for me is not fun for you, you are free not to join me. If what's fun for you is not fun for me, I'm free to not join you.


    Problem arises typically when people like me are successful and people like you are not. So we assemble groups with requirements, and you do not meet them. Then you proceed to the boards to complain about it.
    If you weren't so busy being cranky, you might realize that he has a point.

    When it starts to get into the minds of the community that certain group makeups are "good" and others are "bad", then you start running into the same issue that the holy trinity brought. Guardians are in high demand while...I dunno, I'll just say thieves (for no real reason) I guess...are shunned from groups. I don't want to see another FFXI situation when anyone that wasn't a WHM/RDM/Tank was stuck sitting around all day praying a group spot opened up.

    And yes, if you have one build for a class that's simply much better (or accepted as better, even if it isn't) then it starts to defeat the purpose of a character building system altogether.

    Yes, I know these are social issues and not game system issues, but to angrily deny they'd exist at all seems silly.

  20. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky_ View Post
    1. No one cares if one guy can dodge it. I'll kill his friend, then 2v1 him. Or miss it, have someone else immobilize him and kill him. It will work regardless. That is why bull's charge frenzy hundred blades warriors are a staple burst damage class you see in almost every decent organised sPvP video from BWE3.
    2. Yes, you will. You will either get separate heals for individual healing from geyser, or your regeneration will stack duration from rain. All of them stack.
    ah the fallacy of assuming that YOUR hypothetical situation is correct and ignores that mine is equally valid. In mine I hammer punt you back wards, bit you with an immobilisation, ring of warding your team mate, switch to greatsword charge you and pwn your face before switching back to hammer just in time to punt your friend away so I can get a finisher off on you before walking over to pwn him too......

    Or maybe my mesmer friend comes up and we load you up with conditions after I punt you out of the heals

    or maybe .....
    or then again.....

    we can all come up with hyperthetical situations to "prove" our point....but we all look pretty silly assuming they mean anything.

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