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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Bonefury* View Post
    I'm not saying WoW had bad artstyle, it actually had it good, especially after TBC.

    The part where you're wrong is, GW2 isn't going for the all-out realistic style. It has a painterly artstyle of its own, and how the world feels living and flows reflects that incredibly well. However, it sometimes looks dull in the screenshots. As someone else mentioned, there were several moments which I took a screenshot because the environment was beautiful, soon to realize it looks boring in the screenshot. You really have to play it to see how incredible it looks in motion. Even the videos don't do it justice.


    The hype around dynamic events, is because they make you feel that the world is living. The PQs in Warhammer Online were there constantly, and it just felt scripted and static. And they were. Rift tried to make it a bit more random and dynamic, however the concept was extremely repetitive and again, felt static.

    It's much different in GW2. Since almost all the important content is the DEs, it feels amazing. A commonly used example is this:

    In WoW, you get a quest from a farmer that says that centaurs have kidnapped his daughter. You go to the centaur outpost, rescue the girl and complete the quest.

    In GW2, while you're walking around the farm, maybe doing the heart there, a bunch of centaurs assault the farm. The failure state is them capturing the girl. If you can't defend the farm and the girl, she gets kidnapped and the DE advances to the point that the farmer wants you to rescue the girl. You go to the centaur camp, all naturally mind you, and try to rescue the girl. It feels incredibly natural and flows extremely well. You actually feel that you're doing this, with all other people that you do it with.

    Another point of DEs is that, they are absolutely everywhere. Even when you think a DE ends, if you follow down an NPC which may seem uninteresting, he/she may start up another DE. Something I saw during BWE1 was this: I saw a hut in the middle of the Norn starting zone. There was this Blacksmith apprentice, and when I talked to her she said "You must be looking for Sven, he went out to the dredge caverns to collect ore for weapons and armor". I didn't think much at first. But then when I was walking around, I found the dredge cave she mentioned. Sven was there, asking players to collect ore as part of a dynamic event. After completing the event, everyone spread around, minding their own business, I actually followed Sven. He ran to the hut I mentioned before, and said to the apprentice something in the lines of "I got some good quality ores today", and then went inside and started crafting stuff. Soon after, he got up, and became a weapon vendor that sold blue quality weapons for a short period of time. When I saw this, I was shocked. It was incredibly fitting and the world felt living moreso than in any MMO I've played before (and believe me, I played my fair share of MMOs in the past).

    tl;dr The DEs make the world feel living, and they completely immerse you.
    But expansiveness of the system aside, it's still the same static of WAR's system isn't it?
    It's just not on the same time scale.

    That is, the farm given in your example, is going to be attacked by centaurs. And after the full DE is done, it will eventually get attacked by centaurs again.
    This is what I meant by just a more expansive version of previously seen systems.

    I'm not saying it isn't still a cool thing, but it certainly isn't as open ended an endless, or as new and original as fans seem to make it out.

    Edit:

    It should be noted that I am a wow player, but don't have any sort of dislike towards GW2.
    I just wish to understand its appeal better.
    Last edited by Hitei; 2012-08-03 at 10:10 PM.
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  2. #62
    The Lightbringer Karizee's Avatar
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    I'll add a reason

    Completing a complex meta event chain which spawns a dungeon. These "mini-dungeons" will require more than 5 players.

    It's going to change raiding as we know it.
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  3. #63
    Stood in the Fire
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    GW2-Better Looking, slightly
    WoW-MUCH more content

  4. #64
    Mechagnome Hjalmtyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soratrox View Post
    But expansiveness of the system aside, it's still the same static of WAR's system isn't it?
    It's just not on the same time scale.

    That is, the farm given in your example, is going to be attacked by centaurs. And after the full DE is done, it will eventually get attacked by centaurs again.
    This is what I meant by just a more expansive version of previously seen systems.

    I'm not saying it isn't still a cool thing, but it certainly isn't as open ended an endless, or as new and original as fans seem to make it out.

    Edit:

    It should be noted that I am a wow player, but don't have any sort of dislike towards GW2.
    I just wish to understand its appeal better.
    Yes. In time. But if the centaurs take it, they will start branching out and taking nearby towns. There will be events to run into a centaur occupied town to retake the town from the centaurs, and then you have to capture the town while defending against waves. After you've successfully captured the town, it will periodically be attacked by centaurs. Sometimes you even get events after capturing to go destroy a centaur's siege force or to rescue members of the town who were captured during the invasion by attacking a nearby centaur camp.

    The DEs are too extensive to be compared to RIFT or other similar MMOs.

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-03 at 11:14 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Algearond View Post
    GW2-Better Looking, slightly
    WoW-MUCH more content
    I would STRONGLY disagree with that. If you count the same picture painted a different colour as more content then that's fine, but WoW is the same content with different settings, trust me.

    Only recently has WoW started being more innovative.
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  5. #65
    Where are these mini dungeons exactly? Can't say I ever found any and the couple of videos I saw on YT were just like caves or a small room/cavern.

    Also, how will it change "raiding as we know it"? Seems sorta outlandish.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Soratrox View Post
    But expansiveness of the system aside, it's still the same static of WAR's system isn't it?
    It's just not on the same time scale.

    That is, the farm given in your example, is going to be attacked by centaurs. And after the full DE is done, it will eventually get attacked by centaurs again.
    This is what I meant by just a more expansive version of previously seen systems.

    I'm not saying it isn't still a cool thing, but it certainly isn't as open ended an endless, or as new and original as fans seem to make it out.

    Edit:

    It should be noted that I am a wow player, but don't have any sort of dislike towards GW2.
    I just wish to understand its appeal better.

    http://www.arena.net/blog/colin-joha...vent-questions
    (in the second question)

    <<Many of the events in the game belong to large event chains that cycle in various directions based on the outcome of the events in the chain. Other events can be one-off events that can occur, change the world, and cycle back so some conditions must be met in the world to make the event start again. These event cycles vary dramatically on a case-by-case basis. In some large event chains, depending on player participation and the outcome of events, the chain could go entirely from one end to the other over the course of hours before it cycles back. .In other cases, the event may change the world for 10-15 minutes before it can cycle back around. Some events only occur when specific conditions are met, like a snow storm rolls into the map, or night falls over the graveyard. If an event reaches one end of the chain, it could sit at that point for days, weeks, or months until a player comes along and decides to participate in the event chain. We’ve tried to vary the conditions that trigger events and change the length and variety of the event cycles so that everything feels organic and unique.>>
    Last edited by Plzbegentle; 2012-08-03 at 10:29 PM.
    GW2 : Plzbegentle - Ruins of Surmia EU - Sylvari Engineer
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    It seems ppl have the energy to whine for a game , for not beeing exactly like their <<main>> game , while it dont have a SUB , and they dont have the courage to whine at their Game Master for slacking and producing few PvE content ...

  7. #67
    Pit Lord BoomChickn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soratrox View Post
    It should be noted that I am a wow player, but don't have any sort of dislike towards GW2.
    I just wish to understand its appeal better.
    I guess it is how it is more chaotic, the "quests" (Events) are run by the server's timeframe, rather than your own. So it doesn't wait. That kind of makes a sense of importance, especially because the events have effects on the world.

    Not to mention, you can contribute in any way possible to the event, it is run by a progress bar rather than a checklist.

    And distractions, many distractions.
    Last edited by BoomChickn; 2012-08-03 at 10:21 PM.
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    Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is probably why few engage in it.
    This explains a lot.

  8. #68
    Herald of the Titans Snow White's Avatar
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    ITT: People who dont understand the difference between aesthetics and graphics.

    You can't seriously say that wow has better graphics than GW2. If you prefer the aesthetic, fine but it's graphics are outdated.



    GW2 graphics are amazing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Algearond View Post
    WoW-MUCH more content
    Too bad 99.9 percent of wows "content" becomes completely irrelevant once you hit level cap.
    Last edited by Snow White; 2012-08-03 at 10:28 PM.

  9. #69
    A lot of people are bringing this raid issue...

    Well, if GW2 really lacks Endgame, they will fall into the same mistake SWTOR did. The leveling content IS NOT enough to keep people interested in the long term in a MMO, period.

    Maybe this will be a lesser issue than it was with SWTOR since GW2 is F2P from the beggining.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Madruga View Post
    A lot of people are bringing this raid issue...

    Well, if GW2 really lacks Endgame, they will fall into the same mistake SWTOR did. The leveling content IS NOT enough to keep people interested in the long term in a MMO, period.

    Maybe this will be a lesser issue than it was with SWTOR since GW2 is F2P from the beggining.
    WoW release 1 raid , 1 or 2 week after its release
    And 2 more after 3 weeks
    GW2 : Plzbegentle - Ruins of Surmia EU - Sylvari Engineer
    WoW: Vergin - Deathwing EU - Elf Resto Druid (27/05/05 - 02/04/12 Perma-Banned- Unhappy whinning PvP customer - whos begged from 4.1 to get rid of the RNG of Regrowth ... )
    It seems ppl have the energy to whine for a game , for not beeing exactly like their <<main>> game , while it dont have a SUB , and they dont have the courage to whine at their Game Master for slacking and producing few PvE content ...

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Madruga View Post
    A lot of people are bringing this raid issue...

    Well, if GW2 really lacks Endgame, they will fall into the same mistake SWTOR did. The leveling content IS NOT enough to keep people interested in the long term in a MMO, period.

    Maybe this will be a lesser issue than it was with SWTOR since GW2 is F2P from the beggining.
    Believe it or not, raiding isn't what keeps people playing MMOs. Raids appeal to a small segment of players.

    It's all the world "fluff" that keeps players playing. I would say GW2 has that in droves.

  12. #72
    I have a question regarding DE's, since I'm still partially new to everything, only did one beta and stress test:

    If I complete a specific DE, won't it reset after a certain amount of time? Won't those centaurs respawn after a while and try to take over the farm again, or are they gone forever? If so, how will the player after me get to beat up the centaurs?


    Also, I think people talking about WoW's graphics and aesthetics being better just haven't had a chance to play the game. The Sylvari area being the most eye opening I've seen yet. On lowest settings, the game is beautiful, but remember WoW is an 8 year old game.

  13. #73
    Pit Lord BoomChickn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Weird Beard View Post
    I have a question regarding DE's, since I'm still partially new to everything, only did one beta and stress test:

    If I complete a specific DE, won't it reset after a certain amount of time? Won't those centaurs respawn after a while and try to take over the farm again, or are they gone forever? If so, how will the player after me get to beat up the centaurs?


    Also, I think people talking about WoW's graphics and aesthetics being better just haven't had a chance to play the game. The Sylvari area being the most eye opening I've seen yet. On lowest settings, the game is beautiful, but remember WoW is an 8 year old game.
    They eventually reset. From what I have seen individual events can reset very fast depending on how many people there are, but meta events, even the small ones, can take quite a while.
    Quote Originally Posted by Henry Ford
    Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is probably why few engage in it.
    This explains a lot.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Algearond View Post
    GW2-Better Looking, slightly
    WoW-MUCH more content
    Er, actual content as a whole? Sure. It has 8 years of existence to thank for that. Relevant content? Doubtful.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Madruga View Post
    A lot of people are bringing this raid issue...

    Well, if GW2 really lacks Endgame, they will fall into the same mistake SWTOR did. The leveling content IS NOT enough to keep people interested in the long term in a MMO, period.
    Well, it was successful in the past and in the previous Guild Wars games. Which sold well enough to fund a much talked of sequel.

    The thing about TOR is that it was not feature complete. EA/Bioware made a a poorly designed and executed game. Other games thrive on and so will TOR once it is F2P without 5+ million subs.

    If GW2 "fails" it will be because the game is just not fun. Not because it lacks instanced raids.

  16. #76
    Brewmaster Agile Emily's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Algearond View Post
    GW2-Better Looking, slightly
    WoW-MUCH more content
    GW2 looks considerably better than WoW.
    Content? What are you doing right now that's new? What was patch 4.1 all about? Two new dungeons? DS being a rehash of a ton of old bosses? There was what, one new character skin?

  17. #77
    Keyboard Turner 8stringer's Avatar
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    it also cures cancer, stops global warming and will figure out that whole middle east thing....

    Infracted.
    Last edited by grandpab; 2012-08-03 at 10:52 PM.

  18. #78
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    Quaggan are not harmless:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZdvDKuJE8Q

    Their nukes are just more subtle
    (anyone who makes the whole duration I applaud you)

  19. #79
    I appreciate the DE information, guys.

    Maybe this will be a lesser issue than it was with SWTOR since GW2 is F2P from the beggining.
    I think this is a major point that doesn't get touched on as much as it should.
    Being a B2P game, GW2 isn't really in direct competition with the other MMOs, I imagine a great deal of people will continue to play Swtor, WoW, Rift, and also purchase GW2, so that they can fool around when they get bored of their normal MMO.

    I don't think having a end goal to pursue (endgame raiding and progression) is really necessary in a B2P game. With an active subscription, you need something to drive you to keep playing, because otherwise there's no justification for continuing to pay every month. But without that subscription, it's fine if you just treat GW2 as a sort of open ended multiplayer RPG game with no defined "end".

    Like something from the elder scrolls series, but without the main quest line and with more things to do.
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  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soratrox View Post
    But expansiveness of the system aside, it's still the same static of WAR's system isn't it?
    It's just not on the same time scale.

    That is, the farm given in your example, is going to be attacked by centaurs. And after the full DE is done, it will eventually get attacked by centaurs again.
    This is what I meant by just a more expansive version of previously seen systems.

    I'm not saying it isn't still a cool thing, but it certainly isn't as open ended an endless, or as new and original as fans seem to make it out.


    hang round after events, and watch them spiral outwards, really, if you do 1 DE and then move on, you miss most of the event chain. that NPC you just helped, follow him, he wont just run 10ft and despawn, he will go somewhere and something will happen.

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