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  1. #1

    State of Priest - Enter the Mists [5.0] edition

    It's pretty much that time again, where we take a look back at all the things that happened, and try to make sense of it all.

    First post here is generally reserved for ground rules, but hey, I can't really think of any that need to be addressed this time around, outside of the General forum rules, which you can find here.


    Also, if you need a bit of assistance, you can either post a question in one of our guides, or read How to Ask For Help: The Safe and Sure Way!

    So let's take a look at some of the things that actually changed for us, especially those that have been gone since whenever ago and have no idea what the heck just happened.

    Originally Posted by MMO-Champion
    First off, NEW TALENT TREE. And it's class wide. You get 1 every 15 levels, and can only spend it on one of the three choices of that tier. They can, however, be changed on a fight-per-fight basis, using a consumable similar to Dust of Disappearance for Glyphs. I've got them listed here:


    Tier 1 (level 15) - Control

    Tier 2 (level 30) - Movement

    Tier 3 (level 45) - Mana/Output

    Shadow Word: Insanity is the replacement for Power Word: Solace once you enter Shadowform.


    Tier 4 (level 60) - Survival

    Desperate Prayer is castable in Shadowform, in case one may have missed that.

    Tier 5 (level 75) - Output


    Tier 6 (level 90) - Concept

    Each of the level 90 talents has both a healing and a Shadow equivalent

    So let's take a look at what actually changed for our class beyond the talent page, and let me know if I missed anything:

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Priest (Forums / Talent Calculator / Skills/Talents)
    • Dispel Magic now only removes buffs from enemies
    • Divine Fury now gives 15% hit chance to Holy/Discipline Priests through all of their spells (tooltip is currently not up to date).
    • Evangelism is a passive for both Holy and Discipline, and now also triggers from damaging Penance casts.
    • Inner Fire now increases spellpower by a scaling 10% (up from 531).
    • Purify (new spell for Holy/Discipline) removes all diseases/magic effects, 8 second cooldown
    • Shadowfiend - Is now a 3 minute cooldown (down from 5 minutes). The cooldown of this spell is no longer affected by Mind Flay critical hits.
    • Shadow Word: Death no longer does damage to yourself baseline but only castable on low health targets (redacted with a glyph). Its original cooldown reset glyph is incorporated into the spell baseline.

    Discipline
    • Archangel is now Discipline exclusive. It now increases healing by 5% per stack (up from 3%), but no longer restores mana.
    • Atonement can trigger from offensive use of Penance, but does not stack Grace while doing so.
    • Inner Focus now reduces mana cost by 25% (down from 100%) and increases crit chance by 100% (up from 25%)
    • Rapture is now based off 150% of your spirit's value on triggering, rather than max mana.
    • Strength of Soul(passive), has been dropped to 2 seconds per application
    • New Spell: Spirit Shell - 1 minute cooldown, for 15 seconds your direct heals instead do pure absorbs, scaling with both Mastery and Crit.

    Holy
    • Chakra is now three seperate spells through a dropdown (totem) menu.
    • Chakra: Chastise now reduces the mana cost of your offensive spells, and allows smite to have a chance to refresh the cooldown of Holy Word: Chastise.
    • Chakra: Sanctuary no longer increases the healing of Renew.
      • Holy Word: Sanctuary now acts as a Heal over Time, gaining additional ticks from haste rating, but no longer triggering Echo of Light (mastery). It once again correctly diminishes in value on more than 6 targets.
    • Chakra: Serenity now increases all affected heals by 15%, rather than their crit chance.
      • Renew is now treated as a Single Target heal for the purpose of increased output
    • Divine Hymn is now Holy exclusive

    Shadow
    • Shadow Orbs have been redesigned, being generated from Mind Blast or Shadow Word: Death in execute range.
    • Devouring Plague has been redesigned, consuming Shadow Orbs on cast to do damage over 6 seconds.
    • The horror duration of Psychic Horror is now based on Shadow Orbs.
    • Shadow Word: Pain now has an instant damage component, and is no longer refreshed by Mind Flay
    • Shadow Apparitions now only trigger from a critical tick of Shadow Word: Pain (guaranteed spawn).
    • Vampiric Embrace has been redesigned as a 3 minute cooldown.
    • Vampiric Touch now restores mana on tick
    • Shadow's Mastery has been redesigned as Shadowy Recall: Your periodic damage effects have a chance to do both their damage (and effects) twice each time they tick

    Last edited by Kelesti; 2012-09-23 at 09:29 AM.
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
    Now TESTING: ArcheAge (Alpha)
    Now PLAYING: MonoRed Burn (MtG Standard)
    Twitter: @KelestiMMO come say hi!
    ~When you speak, I hear silence. Every word a defiance~

  2. #2

    State of Priest - Enter the Mists [5.0] edition

    Originally Posted by MMO-Champion
    Of course, Prime glyphs as unobjectionable output increases have been removed. Major Glyphs are situational glyphs, either a cost-benefit scenario or often reworking how spells function entirely

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Priest (Forums / Talent Calculator / Skills/Talents)

    Major Glyphs:
    New spells:
    • Holy Nova - Teaches you the ability Holy Nova.
    • Lightspring - Transforms your Lightwell into a Lightspring.

    Formerly talents/passive:
    • Inner Focus - When you cast Inner Focus you become immune to Silence, Interrupt, and Dispel effects for 5 sec.
    • Inner Sanctum - Spell damage taken is reduced by 6% while within Inner Fire, and the movement speed bonus of your Inner Will is increased by 6%.
    • Mind Blast - When you critically hit with your Mind Blast, you cause the target to be unable to move for 4 sec.
    • Mind Spike - When you deal damage with Mind Spike, the cast time of your next Mind Blast is reduced by 50% lasting 6 sec. This effect can stack up to 2 times.
    • Reflective Shield - Causes 45% of the damage you absorb with Power Word: Shield to reflect back at the attacker. This damage causes no threat.
    • Shadow Word: Death - Your Shadow Word: Death can now be cast at any time, but deals 25% damage against targets above 20% health and does not generate a Shadow Orb when used against them. Casting Shadow Word: Death now also does damage to you equivalent to the damage it would do to an enemy above 20% health.

    New Glyphs:
    • Dark Binding - You can now cast Prayer of Mending, Renew, and Leap of Faith without cancelling Shadowform.
    • Dispel Magic - Your Dispel Magic spell also damages your target when you successfully dispel a magical effect.
    • Holy Fire - Your Holy Fire spell is now instant.
    • Leap of Faith - Your Leap of Faith spell now also clears all movement impairing effects from your target.
    • Levitate - Increases your movement speed while Levitating and for 10 sec afterward by 15%.
    • Spirit of Redemption - Increases the duration of Spirit of Redemption by 10 sec.
    • Vampiric Embrace - Your Vampiric Embrace converts an additional 50% of the damage you deal into healing, but the duration is reduced by 5 sec.

    Tweaks to existing glyphs:
    • Circle of Healing now increases the mana cost by 35% (up from 20)
    • Dispersion now reduces the cooldown by 15 seconds (down from 45)
    • Fade now reduces damage taken by 10%, rather than lowering the cooldown
    • Lightwell - The increased number of charges has been reduced to 2 (down from 5).
    • Mind Flay - redesigned. Your Mind Flay spell no longer slows your victim's speed, but increases your movement speed by by 15% for 3 seconds, stacking 3 times.
    • Penance - redesigned. You can now cast Penance while moving, but its mana cost is increased by 20%
    • Power Word: Shield - The heal is now in place of 20% of the healing, rather than in addition to.
    • Prayer of Mending now reduces the available charges by 1, in addition to its current effect.
    • Psychic Horror now lowers the cooldown by 10 seconds (down from 30).
    • Psychic Scream now also applies to the talented Psyfiend's Psychic Terror
    • Renew - redesigned. Your Renew heals for 33% more per tick, but its duration is reduced by 3 sec.



    As usual, what's your take?
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
    Now TESTING: ArcheAge (Alpha)
    Now PLAYING: MonoRed Burn (MtG Standard)
    Twitter: @KelestiMMO come say hi!
    ~When you speak, I hear silence. Every word a defiance~

  3. #3
    State of the class, by spec:

    Discipline

    Retaining Rapture will give Disc an unfair advantage in the mana department over Holy. However, since it is now based off of Spirit, Disc will have nearly as bad regen as Holy.

    Spirit Shell is a very nice cooldown to have. I'm glad they didn't stick with the old version.

    Archangel/Atonement no longer cost talent points. Are they truly optional? Blizzard is riding the razor's edge with this for people who don't like to DPS while healing. It is very difficult to balance. If I wanted to DPS I'd roll a DPS. Personally I think they need to take away AA or give Discipline another way to generate Evangelism stacks besides DPSing. Then Atonement becomes more of an option rather than a requirement like it nearly is now.

    Discipline is starting to feel like my Warlock on live: running out of keybinds...


    Holy

    Holy's mana continues to be terrible.
    Chakra is still terrible.

    Lightspring is the best thing to happen to the spec in beta. Thank you, Blizzard, I no longer have to yell at my raid to click.

    The loss of Divine Hymn from Disc is actually a buff to Holy. Hooray buffs!

    A stronger Renew makes a pretty strong argument for going Inner Will, Chakra: Serenity, and Renew spam, and swapping to Chakra: Sanctuary and Inner Fire for AOE burst phases. That playstyle may not be viable in 25s, but Holy's issues aren't as glaring in 25s. The mana will still be an issue.

    Overall, Holy is still a jumbled mess, mostly thanks to Chakra. Mana is a big issue. Lightspring and a strong Renew are steps in the right direction, but the spec has a long way to go. I am going to reroll Monk and come back in an expansion to see how things are going.

    Shadow

    The nerf to multidotting will be the biggest change from live. Yes, we'll still be able to DOT multiple targets, and our damage will increase, but it won't be anything to write home about, and it may turn out not to be worth it in a lot of situations. Still waiting for the compensating single-target damage buff.

    Removing Evangelism and Empowered Shadows: personally, I liked watching buffs on myself, but I can see this as a net win because of the removal of ramp up in our rotation.

    Mind Blast generating orbs feels too much like the combo point system. Devouring Plague as a finisher feels pretty "ho hum" as well.

    Vampiric Embrace will be nice utility. Void Shift will be nice utility for all specs, Shadow will be able to Disperse afterwards, which is a nice perk.

    The new mastery is pretty boring.

    They took away Dark Archangel. WAAAAAH!!!! Putting wings on Devouring Plague through a glyph just isn't the same, and neither is PI.

    Overall: right now, it all depends on how the numbers pan out for shadow. If the multidotting nerf is too big, it effectively removes that ability from the class. If our single target damage is still low, our general viability comes into question.


    Talents

    Level 15 tier: Hopefully, this tier will actually make Shadow competitive against melee in PVP. Not holding my breath, though.
    Level 30 tier: I'm excited to have Body and Soul for all specs in PVE, and Phantasm in PVP
    Level 45 tier:

    Power Word: Solace - they need to nerf or remove this, or buff FDCL and Mindbender for the other specs. It is becoming too much of a prop for our mana and we have to spend GCDs that other healers don't, again, just to prop up our mana into something resembling the passive regen/efficiency of other specs.

    Shadow Word: Insanity - I'm not even sure what the point of this is, other than something to replace Solace for Shadow. A replacement for the lost burst from guaranteed MB crits while Mind Spiking?

    Level 60 tier: Desperate Prayer for all specs is great. Spectral Guise I don't see too much use for, even in PVP. Angelic Bulwark - situationally useful.

    Level 75 tier: PI as Shadow will be nice. I'd still rather have Dark Archangel, I felt it fit the spec much better thematically.
    Level 90 tier: Halo looks pretty cool. Otherwise, eh, more damage and healing buttons to push, pretty unremarkable. Positioning could be really annoying with these.


    Glyphs

    Being able to cast heals while in Shadowform will be amazing for PVP.
    Lightspring - still amazing.
    Mind Spike - not sure why they removed the auto crit when you spend this buff on MB. Only 2 casts instead of 3 could have interesting effects.
    Spirit of Redemption - why do we still have this ability? Oh yeah, so other players can laugh at us in PVP!
    Holy Nova - why do we still have this ability? Oh, yeah, killing snake traps in PVP!

    Overall, I'm happy I don't have to choose between DPS and non DPS glyphs anymore. I can slot Dispersion again, yay! There are some interesting choices too - like Renew and PW:S glyphs, where it could go either way.
    Last edited by Felade; 2012-08-06 at 03:31 PM.

  4. #4
    High Overlord Lundmark's Avatar
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    Discipline
    Rupture - from spirit for the first time ever makes me uneasy, would have liked it better reverted to as it was in Wrath, by Spellpower.
    Loss of Divine Hymn - A situational tool lost for nothing to take its place(SS is new but doesn't cover the spread out targets).
    Holy Nova - Stays in form of a MAJOR glyph. Not going to be worth it as it is still weak since the transition from Wrath when it was ~ok'ish.
    PW-Solace - I hate this one so much... If they make me use it to beat a boss I will dislike them all!
    Spirit Shell - Thankfully it turned out ok in the end, but all this grp-based AoE healing still goes on with PoH.
    Smitespec - Not a choice anymore. Balance us around that and force us to PW:Solace too and we're set for a bad time^2

    What I wish for: Multitarget Penance - triggered by Inner Focus. Would be more powerful then CoH but with a way longer cd(~Current target + 3 lowest). Just that missing tool for the job, we're priests aren't we?

  5. #5
    It is perhaps worth noting defensive dispel was removed from a Spriests; We still retain Mass Dispel, but now has a 15 sec CD.

  6. #6
    Brewmaster Mazi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felade View Post

    Holy
    Reroll Monk and come back in an expansion to see how things are going.
    Really now? That's not constructive at all. While Holy is hurting for mana you can still output high throughput via smart (and excessive) use of Solace.

  7. #7
    Really now? That's not constructive at all. While Holy is hurting for mana you can still output high throughput via smart (and excessive) use of Solace.
    Not sure if I'd call hanging out with the Shaman on meters high throughput. As I've said, I'm done with this spec until Blizzard gets rid of Chakra and/or decides to balance healers a little better.

  8. #8
    Stood in the Fire
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    If I was going to play MoP, I'd almost definitely be rerolling to my Paladin with the state of things right now. The fact you literally have to sit and spam PW: Solace for 40-50% of a fight to sustain your mana is an absolute joke, which Blizzard keep avoiding. Throughput would be decent if you didn't have to sit there regaining mana all the time.

  9. #9
    Great list. But you missed the "what is gone" list.

    - Cure Disease is gone (merged into Purify)
    - Mind Soothe is gone (and noone cared)
    - Holy Nova is gone (replaced by a glyph, offering the same deal)
    - Mana Burn is gone (PVP reasons)
    - Mind Control is gone (replaced by a much worse T1 talent)
    - Shadow Protection is gone (along with all similar spells)
    Non-discipline since 2006. Also: fails. "Chakra, when the walls fell"

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Felade View Post
    Overall, Disc is probably the better of the two specs
    What? No one raiding in Disc on beta.

  11. #11
    Shadow priest are like the worst class to play now *Sobs*

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Swix View Post
    What? No one raiding in Disc on beta.
    Listen to this man since he speaks the truth, disc as it stands now is completely useless unless you plan to tank heal or need the cds it provides, holy is leagues above it in pretty much everything else.

  13. #13
    Listen to this man since he speaks the truth, disc as it stands now is completely useless unless you plan to tank heal or need the cds it provides, holy is leagues above it in pretty much everything else.
    Sounds like more reasons to roll Monk to me!

  14. #14
    Has anyone tested how does FDCL work with glyph of Mind Spike, both single and multi target?
    Having instant or 50% reduced cast time on Mind Blast sounds interesting. No idea if any of the new raid bosses have a mechanic where this could be handy since I don't have beta access.

  15. #15
    I ran a couple of MoP heroics with my disc priest and then with my resto druid. I had a far easier time keeping the group alive and managing mana with the druid, despite being much more practiced with disc on live. Its anecdotal, but disc definitely left a sour taste in my mouth...

  16. #16
    Brewmaster Mazi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felade View Post
    Not sure if I'd call hanging out with the Shaman on meters high throughput. As I've said, I'm done with this spec until Blizzard gets rid of Chakra and/or decides to balance healers a little better.
    Just because you can't keep up doesn't mean the entire spec sucks. I'm doing just fine with it. While mana is tedious, it has still been tons of fun.

    Disc is absolutely awful in the raw throughput sense... but still has the utility of absorbs and barrier.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazi View Post
    Just because you can't keep up doesn't mean the entire spec sucks. I'm doing just fine with it. While mana is tedious, it has still been tons of fun.
    The CLASS sucks. You can't run with weaker players (And/or specs) and top the meters and say everything is cool. It doesn't work like that. There's some serious issues with mana and mechanics and it's not getting better.

    Holy may be the best of the bunch, but Disc and Shadow are absolute garbage and Holy's got problems too.
    Last edited by Venaliter; 2012-08-06 at 02:49 AM.

  18. #18
    Just because you can't keep up doesn't mean the entire spec sucks. I'm doing just fine with it. While mana is tedious, it has still been tons of fun.

    Disc is absolutely awful in the raw throughput sense... but still has the utility of absorbs and barrier.
    Looking at your logs and you're getting pretty handily beaten by Monks, Paladins, and Druids. I'm not trying to make this a personal attack, but that's not my idea of keeping up.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=19139&e=19714

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=13831&e=14220

    This doesn't look like balanced to me. There may be mitigating factors (Monks look like they're still broken), but the more logs I see, the more I see Priests riding the bottom.

  19. #19
    Been playing disc since the end of TBC and I've never felt so broken before.

    Sad to see myself at the bottom of healing meters. If my only aim would be to top meters, which I can do, I'd go oom fast even after popping mana CDs while the rest of the healers (maybe except for shamans) are sitting on 50+% more mana.

    Finding myself a bit overwhelmed with the number of keybinds now, let alone the management of so many cooldown and being careful not to let evangelism stacks fall off. Everything just feels so out of sync. I'm hoping that maybe once I get more accustomed to the encounters I'd be able to time cooldowns appropriately.

    So far on beta I see disc performing better in 10s than in 25s, based on my personal experience.

  20. #20
    Brewmaster Mazi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felade View Post
    Looking at your logs and you're getting pretty handily beaten by Monks, Paladins, and Druids. I'm not trying to make this a personal attack, but that's not my idea of keeping up.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=19139&e=19714

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=13831&e=14220

    This doesn't look like balanced to me. There may be mitigating factors (Monks look like they're still broken), but the more logs I see, the more I see Priests riding the bottom.
    If you see that as getting handled then that's a differing of opinion. Monks SCK was healing for too much (no DR) and Paladins have a bug with the Eternal Flame glyph or something.

    I've been progression raiding since vanilla - you'll never be equal - but it sure is fine to keep up. Did you look at ALL of the logs? Or just that fight and those attempts? I'm talking about OVERALL not just one fight or one attempt.

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