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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Venaliter View Post
    All that said, DI in particular strikes me as a really clunky talent.
    Yes, for Disc. It is very weird. I would much rather have something like "Your Penance and Atonement heals refreshes the duration of your shields (PWS, DA and SS)". Or just give both priest healers the PoM ability Holy has, it works very well.
    Last edited by Darkener; 2012-09-02 at 04:12 AM.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Redsparrow View Post
    Did I miss the bit where they intentionally made HW: Sanc stop proccing echo of light?
    Yup. It was when they made it start scaling with Haste. Holy Word Sanctuary is a Heal over Time, not a Direct Heal, even if it is ground-based targetting rather than player based.
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  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkener View Post
    Yes, for Disc. It is very weird. I would much rather have something like "Your Penance and Atonement heals refreshes the duration of your shields (PWS, DA and SS)". Or just give both priest healers the PoM ability Holy has, it works very well.
    I believe, not that the mind of a mere mortal like myself could ever hope to fully understand a developer's thoughts, the talent was meant to "emphasize" doing what your specialization is good at - Like Raid healing as Holy or tank healing as Discipline.

    So if I could design the talent, Penance would have a chance to heal to a nearby, additional target, hopefully with an element of smart targeting involved.

    Also, I had to stop and think about your idea for a few moments. Good job thinking outside the box.

    Edit: Ut-oh, Kelesti ninja edited your post! Grab your ball-peen hammer ;P
    Last edited by Venaliter; 2012-09-02 at 04:23 AM.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    Yup. It was when they made it start scaling with Haste. Holy Word Sanctuary is a Heal over Time, not a Direct Heal, even if it is ground-based targetting rather than player based.
    How irritating.
    I'm really not sure what to think about priest healing right now. I want to love priests, I've always loved priests but I'm just not seeing what a holy priest is bringing to the raid that a rshaman can't bring with extras.
    Redsparowe#2548 <Crayola Inc>, Lightbringer EU

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Redsparrow View Post
    How irritating.
    I'm really not sure what to think about priest healing right now. I want to love priests, I've always loved priests but I'm just not seeing what a holy priest is bringing to the raid that a rshaman can't bring with extras.
    I was going to reply facetiously to this post and say "SoR" but then I stopped, thought about it some. Thought I'd do a real comparison in sort of a rough order.

    Priest<---------------------> Shaman

    *Lightwell <----------------->Spirit Link
    *Guardian Spirit<------------>Spirit Walker's Grace
    *Divine Hymn <-------------->Ascendence
    *Hymn of Hope <------------>Mana Tide
    *SoR <---------------------->Ankh
    *Void Shift <---------------->Bloodlust
    *Lifegrip <------------------>Stormlash
    *Fearward <---------------->Tremor Totem
    *Fortitude <---------------->Burning Wrath
    *Mass Dispel <-------------->Grace of Air
    Last edited by Venaliter; 2012-09-02 at 05:17 AM.

  6. #126

  7. #127
    Vena - I struggle to see some of these correlations you've made. So many of them aren't even similarly related. Lifegrip and Stormlash? Void Shift and Bloodlust?

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Moshic View Post
    Mind Spike mastery proc with FDCL - wiping dots intended mechanic or bug?
    Mind Spike doesn't proc from Mastery. If you got Legendary you might want to avoid the talent or cast it only at 2 stacks to avoid to proc another.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by derevka View Post
    Not sure why you posted this exact statement twice in the other thread... but if you sincerely think Disc is having AOE healing problems; you are not using Spirit SHell correctly.
    I just rofled at this. Spirit shell is a 25% boost in healing for 15s every minute. Its nice that you can stack stuff with it, but when it comes to sustained AoE HPS disc maxes out at like 50k, holy priests, hpalas and rshamans get to like 60 and monks are 70k+, also our sustained aoe cycle is extremely mana draining and difficult to manage because you if you dont use archangel you lose between 10-15% HPM and about 5% HPS.

    Spirit Shell is an awesome cooldown for both aoe healing and tank healing, but otherwise Disc aoe healing compared to pretty much every other class is shite.

    Disc was always bad at this sort of sustained aoe, but since blizzard decide to f... us up the butt by nerfing penance, we dropped below the radar.

    Currently I think monks and rshamans are the undisputed kings of 25man aoe healing. Uplift/mists and healing rain are just obcene.

    ---------- Post added 2012-09-02 at 03:05 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsparrow View Post
    How irritating.
    I'm really not sure what to think about priest healing right now. I want to love priests, I've always loved priests but I'm just not seeing what a holy priest is bringing to the raid that a rshaman can't bring with extras.
    Mobility and healing a spread-out raid. On the move healing from holy priests is right up there with monks and I think we are currently the best at healing a spread out raid.

    ---------- Post added 2012-09-02 at 03:22 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by derevka View Post
    I dont understand what the issue is...

    Disc is NOT in a bad place right now; logs of disc being played smartly clearly illustrate that. But the fact of the matter is that this seems more of a strawman than anything.

    I ran Holy last night,and my partner in crime was Disc... she demolished with SShell last night: demolished. Granted, its on content where both of us could just mindlessly spam our abilities and do well...

    SShell is superior to a flat smartheal since its an absorb, and by nature is always 'first through the door'.
    Mate that is at 85 and with severely nerfed content. It is a completely artificial environment. Also a lot of the fights in DS are very bursty which plays right into the hands of disc for now. Basically in DS right now you can absorb the majority of the incoming damage leaving very little for other healers to heal, but tbh that is because the damage is trivial. At 85 when your stacked absorbs will still leave a lot of damage to be healed, you will notice a severe lack of throughput when it comes to aoe from disc. Also you will struggle with mana if you try to produce the highest possible HPS. Especially in some encounters which have a burst phase at the end with high aoe healing, its unbelievable how fast you fall behind and how complex our max HPS rotation is. Weaving, PWS/PoH, holy fire and penance and trying to synch spirit shell with archangel and keep track of rapture. Disc is seriously in a pickle right now. The only reason to bring disc is if tank healing is absoludely insane, because disc is an insanely good tank healer atm, or if you have serious trouble with big aoe abilities one shotting ppl.
    Last edited by Havoc12; 2012-09-02 at 02:23 PM.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havoc12 View Post
    I just rofled at this. Spirit shell is a 25% boost in healing for 15s every minute. Its nice that you can stack stuff with it, but when it comes to sustained AoE HPS disc maxes out at like 50k, holy priests, hpalas and rshamans get to like 60 and monks are 70k+
    And you fail to see the unique & very useful ability to absorb damage instead of healing it, in this case. It's easily worth 50k hps absorbs> 60-70k hps healing imo.

    If Discs were equal to other healers in terms of hps, it would be too powerful.

    Not saying Disc have no issues.. But I believe so do Holy and other classes aswell. And Monks WILL be fotm for a while, it's just the way things goes... What I am really annoyed about is that Pallys seem to get too much cuddle & patting. There you now have "The jack of all trades" but with the difference they seem to be the best at most things, and it's been the case for a very long period of time... Atleast Disc got a very useful niche!

    Edit; Sanctuary needs to be adressed badly. Or I really can't see much use of it. The new Holy Nova?
    Last edited by nobodysbaby; 2012-09-02 at 03:05 PM.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Cham View Post
    Mind Spike doesn't proc from Mastery. If you got Legendary you might want to avoid the talent or cast it only at 2 stacks to avoid to proc another.
    I'm assuming it procs from DTR. So is it a bug or not?

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Venaliter View Post
    I was going to reply facetiously to this post and say "SoR" but then I stopped, thought about it some. Thought I'd do a real comparison in sort of a rough order.

    Priest<---------------------> Shaman

    *Lightwell <----------------->Spirit Link
    *Guardian Spirit<------------>Spirit Walker's Grace
    *Divine Hymn <-------------->Ascendence
    *Hymn of Hope <------------>Mana Tide
    *SoR <---------------------->Ankh
    *Void Shift <---------------->Bloodlust
    *Lifegrip <------------------>Stormlash
    *Fearward <---------------->Tremor Totem
    *Fortitude <---------------->Burning Wrath
    *Mass Dispel <-------------->Grace of Air
    EDIT, I'm just butthurt QQing.

    I'd like to see 'heal' have a shorter cast time though so I could use it to reactively heal without needing to precast though.
    Last edited by Redsparowe; 2012-09-02 at 08:51 PM.
    Redsparowe#2548 <Crayola Inc>, Lightbringer EU

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by derevka View Post
    Vena - I struggle to see some of these correlations you've made. So many of them aren't even similarly related. Lifegrip and Stormlash? Void Shift and Bloodlust?
    I mostly organized it like that due to the formatting required. It was originally spaces instead of <--> but posting it like that became an unreadable jumble. Some of the comparisons are fairly obvious, like mana tide and HoH, Fear Ward and Tremor Totem; Lifegrip and Stormlash were ordered together due to both being completely unique . There is no comparable spell to Lifegrip, and nothing comparable to Stormlash. Void Shift and Bloodlust share a similiar cooldown. The one that doesn't even make sense to me is Mass Dispel and Grace of Air ;-)

    It would be interesting to me to see how you would have done it. Either way, I unintentionally gave you insight into my twisted mind ;-)
    Last edited by Venaliter; 2012-09-03 at 12:41 AM.

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Moshic View Post
    I'm assuming it procs from DTR. So is it a bug or not?
    It is not a bug.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Havoc12 View Post
    trying to synch spirit shell with archangel.
    Friendly tip: AA has zero interaction with Shell. So don't waste AA by running it concurrently with SShell. That right there could be part of your throughput concerns.

    Also I am curious where you calc'd this 25% increase in output that you state SShell provides, as well as these other %'s youre touting... they do not line up with the numbers I did in my Heroic/Normal 10/25 testing on beta... nor simming. Maybe I am missing some critical part of the math, so I'd be curious to hear what you suggest I missed. What stat levels did you get those numbers at?
    Last edited by derevka; 2012-09-02 at 07:25 PM. Reason: clarity

  16. #136
    Is rapture capped? I have 5k spirit yet am only seeing returns of around 8k mana.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Cephius View Post
    Is rapture capped? I have 5k spirit yet am only seeing returns of around 8k mana.
    that sounds about right doesn't it? 150% spirit. 5000*1.5 = 7.5k mana
    Redsparowe#2548 <Crayola Inc>, Lightbringer EU

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Redsparrow View Post
    that sounds about right doesn't it? 150% spirit. 5000*1.5 = 7.5k mana
    HAHAHAH your right and I'm an idiot. I knew it was 150% but I was expecting 250% because I fail at maths. Thus I was expecting around 15k mana returns. -.- Thanks for sorting me out!
    Last edited by Cephius; 2012-09-02 at 09:28 PM.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Cham View Post
    It is not a bug.
    So because I have DTR I can't properly use FDCL. Wtf?? Where's the choice in that?

  20. #140
    Brewmaster Mazi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moshic View Post
    So because I have DTR I can't properly use FDCL. Wtf?? Where's the choice in that?
    The talents are balanced around 90 raids, not 85.

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