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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazi View Post
    If that's all you're using then you're not doing it right. Just because you can heal that way doesn't mean you're doing it right. Chi Burst is better than Uplift.. 2x Chi Burst + Chi Brew + 2x Chi Burst is pretty sick burst healing in any direction.. then you also get 2 stacks of Mana Tea just from that burst.

    I think the problem is that us priests (I've been playing a healing priest since Vanilla) are so used to having so many spells that we have a billion keybindings... Monks are a bit simpler with a better flow IMO than any other healer.

    How are Monks bad at triage? Channel + Insta cast FH is a lot of healing.. there's also Life Cocoon, all 3 of which are also amazing for tank healing. Monks are absolutely amazing 10m healers

    Healing in this game has always been about having a synergistic roster of healing, not stacking one class.
    True you do have other buttons to push as a monk, but I look at the logs of what the hughest hps monks do on lfr. 60-70% is uplift+renewing mists+statue.

    The soothing mists mechanic is nice, but you cant use the instant heal too much.

    Monk tank healing does not hold a candle to disc tank healing. Also paladins are just incredible on the tank. Beacon duplicates all their aoe healing on the tank. I think disc is the best tank healer by far though. Throughput is sick and has awesome CDs.

    Right now the perfect healing team for 25mans has a ton of monks and a pala or two.

    Actually I take that back. Some encounters favour other classes, including priests
    Last edited by Havoc12; 2012-09-08 at 01:03 PM.

  2. #162
    Posted this on the official forums; Please stop by and give it a read/your thoughts. I'm trying to hook a large, angry blue crab.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6522902643

  3. #163
    Thanks for making a very nice post, Venaliter. Unfortunately, I am a second rate EU customer, so I am left with the second best option:

    I named my Magical Crawdad Ghostcrawler, and did note that if I level him to lvl 30, he will grant me a wish. My wish is to be able to post in the english forums that matter
    Non-discipline since 2006. Also: fails. "Chakra, when the walls fell"

  4. #164
    I did the last two bosses on Terrace of Endless Spring. Disc and holy palas are doing pretty good there, since they are mostly single target healing fights. Monks are not doing so well. Me and pala were both well above, two monks and a holy priest. Unless the fight changes dramatically on normal, disc and hpalas are going to rock Lei Shi and the Sha of Fear.

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Venaliter View Post
    Posted this on the official forums; Please stop by and give it a read/your thoughts. I'm trying to hook a large, angry blue crab.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6522902643
    Best bet is to post in that megathread balance (http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/2...nalysis-pt-ii/)

    Seems the most reactions come from that thread

    In reaction to some points:

    -Spectral guise has its uses more into pvp and it seems pretty good. Assuming you mean with stealth-> invisibility, you mean as in pve? Then we already have fade for that. For pvp it is a moot point because damage/dots would pull you out regardless of the two.

    - shadow orbs. Druids have an ability to shift lunar/solar. Question indeed comes whether or not it should be balanced but even with a resource decay people will find a way to bank 3 orbs. Best is to have an out of combat regen spell cd. Dont bind it to disperse as losing an survivval cd for orbs: might as well go through loops and holes to get o3 orbs[edit: someone reply to that themos priest that pulling with 3 orbs DOES make a significant boost to our damage and comparing it to combopoints of a rogue is just folly, it should be compared to solar/lunar/shards /hp, not to a combopoint system where entire damage system relies on

    -add problem with swd not registering the sub 20% activation. Having a macro to forceupdate targets hp so we can use swd as its intended seems kind of cumbersome
    Last edited by Cookiematico; 2012-09-10 at 09:01 AM.

  6. #166
    Originally Posted by MMO-Champion
    @KelestiMMO: @Ghostcrawler What're your thoughts on Chakra as a niche limitation in a paradigm that doesn't do niches anymore?

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    @Ghostcrawler: .@KelestiMMO I've struggled with this answer a lot, because Chakra works for me as a design in the way old Tree Form did not.
    Edit: Source: https://twitter.com/ghostcrawler/sta...43412050231296
    Last edited by Kelesti; 2012-09-10 at 08:11 PM.
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
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  7. #167
    Yea... I don't really get what he was trying to say there...

  8. #168
    Bloodsail Admiral nobodysbaby's Avatar
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    Tree Form? Really...??

    Hm... This will keep me up tonight. Old Tree form made healing stronger, and that was that, right...? Like switching to Shadow Form. Chakra is no way near that neat. It's not choosing to damage or heal, it's making you choose AE or ST healing. In disguise.

    Hopefully this will make them really think about Chakra as a mechanic, one can only hope...

  9. #169
    I think chakra is beneficial if no other class has both as good aoe heals as we do in sanctuary chakra and as good ST heals as we do in serenity chakra. In other words if all classes have either ST or AOE heals that are worse those of the holy priest in the corresponding chakra, then chakra is a good design. If other classes have the same effectiveness is both their ST and AOE heals as holy priests do in the correspending chakra, then chakra is a completely failed design. Currently I think the latter is the case.

    Basically think of it like this. If some classes are better at aoe and some better at ST healing, then if holy can be fairly close to the best class by choosing the right chakra, then chakra is great.

    Currently however monks blow holy out of the water in aoe healing and disc priests/palas also blow holy out of the water on ST healing. In 25 man, its best to just stay permanently in sanctuary and spam aoe heals as holy. If you need to ST you go disc. Changing chakras to match the different phases, is certainly possible, but only if there are pretty discrete AoE and ST phases. Nefarian, chmaeron, majordomo, yor'sahj are all good examples. In most fights you just stay in one chakra or the other.

    This is a major problem with holy. I think the +healing benefits should be rolled into the baseline and just leave the holy words + special effects (renew refresh, CoH reduced CD) in the chakra.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by nobodysbaby View Post
    Tree Form? Really...??

    Hm... This will keep me up tonight. Old Tree form made healing stronger, and that was that, right...? Like switching to Shadow Form. Chakra is no way near that neat. It's not choosing to damage or heal, it's making you choose AE or ST healing. In disguise.

    Hopefully this will make them really think about Chakra as a mechanic, one can only hope...
    Old Tree Form:
    Cannot cast direct heals at all. Cannot Remove Curse. Cannot Battle Rez. Permanent 20% snare.
    What did it give you? A mana cost reduction on your HoT spells, and anyone in your party would have +healing recieved increased by a percentage of your Spirit.

    So druids sat in the tank party.


    What GC is basically telling us is even though Tree of Life was a failed design that had to be pared back completely (to the crying masses of "omg I rolled tree to shapeshift my class is ruined" bullshit), they're going out of their way to try it again on us, do things "differently", because it's... fun for them... to have a stance mechanic..? I dunno.


    I asked it like this pretty much because if they like it, there's not a lot we can do to change their minds. But the fact that GC hesitates to find an answer, I'm not sure how to really take that.
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
    Now TESTING: ArcheAge (Alpha)
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    Twitter: @KelestiMMO come say hi!
    ~When you speak, I hear silence. Every word a defiance~

  11. #171
    I think he's trying to say that Chakra is a choice, whereas Tree Form was not.

    The tree I think we need to bark up here (haha) is that the long cooldown prevents us from making a real choice. Usually, what it ends up being is "ooh I have ST damage here better switch Chakras...no wait, I'll be in an AOE phase again before the CD is up, better just stay in Sanctuary". A shorter CD (on the order of 10-15 seconds) would make Chakra actually work as intended (make us actively choose to focus on ST or AOE healing).

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Felade View Post
    I think he's trying to say that Chakra is a choice, whereas Tree Form was not.

    The tree I think we need to bark up here (haha) is that the long cooldown prevents us from making a real choice. Usually, what it ends up being is "ooh I have ST damage here better switch Chakras...no wait, I'll be in an AOE phase again before the CD is up, better just stay in Sanctuary". A shorter CD (on the order of 10-15 seconds) would make Chakra actually work as intended (make us actively choose to focus on ST or AOE healing).
    Or have each spell we cast appropriate to the Chakra we are in reduce the cooldown on Chakra by 5 seconds.

  13. #173
    Bloodsail Admiral nobodysbaby's Avatar
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    Oh, that oooold Old Tree Form. Yeah... Sounds very similar to how Chakra feels actually, locked into one stance or the other.

    I wonder... WHY... Do we get the discarded ideas remade? Feels like we get the leftovers here, with Solace, Chakra. And I also get reminded of how Paladin got the Holy Radiance (wich Hpriest had as a solution to groupbased PoH, but thought was too OP). Also they buff Renew so much we could once again work as low lvl Druids.

    @Havoc; We can never ever be better than others in any stance. I wrote this a thousand times, just think about it. We can be on pair when in the right Chakra, that's it... I DON'T believe a shorter CD would be the answer either. Sure, the CD is too long to make you willing to play around with is as you please, but... NTY:/

    No changes to Hymn of Hope either, here they could've made something more interesting to manaregen then just spam Solace or bind Mindbender to all keys. Sanctuary is once again terrible. GS still quite unreliable and non-functional on some encounters. A lot of unsolved issues not adressed at all, I feel.

    I have to be fair and say they really nailed DI for holy (PoM is my absolute favourite spell) and Lightspring turned out very cool. Other than that there aren't any changes I fancy. Disappointed, even if you say we aren't "the worst healers" on Beta, with only raw healing to work with, I wonder?? We should be top with Druids, not Paladins+Monks topping everything by large margins.

    I was really hoping they would adress Chakras atleast... But I guess it won't happen this expansion either.

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by nobodysbaby View Post
    But I guess it won't happen this expansion either.
    It is clear Priests once again got the short end of the stick again this expansion. It's hard for Priests not to take it personally when it happens every damned expansion.

  15. #175
    Well you must understand, all the necessary work on warlocks took quite some time and ressources, I mean, when was the last time they got new spells and new animations?
    Oh wait...

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Venaliter View Post
    It is clear Priests once again got the short end of the stick again this expansion. It's hard for Priests not to take it personally when it happens every damned expansion.


    Priests were THE healers of Vanilla
    In TBC, good luck doing SWP without several CoH spamming priests
    In WotLK, priests got two strong specs for PvE.
    In Cata we rocked every single tier.


    I fail to see how we've gotten the short end of the stick every damned expansion. You're jaded and irrational.
    Go reroll a FotM if you want to be OP or broken.

  17. #177
    Bloodsail Admiral nobodysbaby's Avatar
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    In TBC Holy Priests were good. No clunky Chakras, but CoH became an escalating mess, leading up to a total spam fest in Naxx(2), complete fiasko of design if you ask me. For Sunwell you might aswell take CH-spamming Shamans tbh, except for massdispell on one boss (the lady dragon, can't remember the name).

    Then we were "ok" in WotLK, imo as usual Pala/Druid were stonger, but we were fine, mostly because we had a very strong Renew (hello spam again)!

    In Cata I can't say we totally rocked the house either, it was a very bumpy and uncomfortable road to where we are today, and I was never a fan of the introduction of Chakras. And once again I saw Palas just owning in all areas, with Druids being very strong aswell, and Disc was the specc to play on many fights still.. Cata is the tier were they managed to balance the healers the best at the end of the of it all though, and I feel all classes have kind of good spellrotations/options and comparably useful CD's aswell now! Just remove Chakra and I would be 80% more satisfied with this specc atm..

    Understand I am not complaining about my own situation now, I am very spoiled and have a firm raidspot no matter how bad my specc will do, I have my own choice to still play Holy in all situations. Not everyone have it as comfy, and most important, it's always nice to feel you can do a great job and have fun with it! Chakra ruins a lot of the flow. Still... Holy<3 for life. Nothing beats the feeling still, but MoP didn't give us much in the joy department, that's my oppinion.
    Last edited by nobodysbaby; 2012-09-11 at 02:12 PM.

  18. #178
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    In response to GC's tweet:
    I feel like Twitter is not really the place you can get a proper answer to the concern simply because it is a complicated question with important nuance. I believe what he meant about the original Tree of Life form was that the downside was too significant, that it crippled you completely for the things it took away, and not being in ToL was too huge a loss for the things it buffed. My impression is that they do not feel this is the case with Chakra. While we certainly have stronger heals when we are in the Chakra state that benefits them, we are capable of using our entire toolkit, minus holy words, in either Chakra without too significant of a loss, meaning we are not crippled. I do not find this to be a good approach, but there it is.
    Last edited by Chimaera; 2012-09-11 at 07:26 PM.

  19. #179
    Tree of Life wasn't a choice, you were in it and you spammed HoTs
    Serenity vs Santuary, both are viable and work. People just tend to gravitate to Sanctuary in 25 b/c in that raid size it's all about the RAW AOE HEALZZ OM"G"F

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiematico View Post
    Best bet is to post in that megathread balance (http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/2...nalysis-pt-ii/)
    I don't have access to the beta forums. Sadly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Havoc12 View Post
    In other words if all classes have either ST or AOE heals that are worse those of the holy priest in the corresponding chakra, then chakra is a good design. If other classes have the same effectiveness is both their ST and AOE heals as holy priests do in the correspending chakra, then chakra is a completely failed design.
    Yes, pretty much. For Chakra trade off to actually work, you must have higher AE healing and lower single target healing, or vice versa.

    Quote Originally Posted by Themos View Post
    Priests were THE healers of Vanilla
    In TBC, good luck doing SWP without several CoH spamming priests
    In WotLK, priests got two strong specs for PvE.
    In Cata we rocked every single tier.

    I fail to see how we've gotten the short end of the stick every damned expansion. You're jaded and irrational.
    Go reroll a FotM if you want to be OP or broken.
    You have no idea what you are talking about.

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