Thread: add ons in gw2

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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by rhandric View Post
    You're absolutely right Kel. If there isn't, Kel (I'm not sure, I didn't search for one), they should definitely add one, for tweaking or comparing personal builds.

    But there should never be a way to look at damage/dps and decide that someone is bad, you should instead figure it out from actually playing with them. Yes, fights are hectic, but as long as you're paying attention you can see what others are doing.
    sorry just no

    without dmg meters/wols no-one would have a clue who was bad / who was good.

    the entire point about damage meters is that they show damage done. that's a useful feature. does it lead to bad play? no. i'd rather play with a pretentious dick who does 3857369373967397982797282795 dps than the most polite person in the world who does 0.0000000000000001 dps.

  2. #202
    arenanet said they had no intentions of putting in addons :/

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Cranberries View Post
    sorry just no

    without dmg meters/wols no-one would have a clue who was bad / who was good.

    the entire point about damage meters is that they show damage done. that's a useful feature. does it lead to bad play? no. i'd rather play with a pretentious dick who does 3857369373967397982797282795 dps than the most polite person in the world who does 0.0000000000000001 dps.
    Go ahead and play with yourself, I really couldn't care less.
    If you even read what I wrote (or knew anything about GW2), in the slightest, you'd have realized, in GW2, you can see what other people are doing (unless you're tunnel-visioning) and know whether they're playing well or not. Yes, dps will matter in GW2, but basing decisions off it when there's a lot more going on (no holy trinity, etc) is just wrong. You know what the person you play with would say? "Oh, that guy did 1 dps and I did 5 dps, kick him!" when the other guy was kiting and controlling the fight. That's what Kel, and Fencers, and I are talking about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    Yeah, Rhandric is right, as usual.

  4. #204
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhandric View Post
    Yes, dps will matter in GW2, but basing decisions off it when there's a lot more going on (no holy trinity, etc) is just wrong.
    Typical rhetoric from somebody who doesn't know how to use a combat parser. DPS meter isn't the only function, and never has been.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  5. #205
    Really interesting thing about that post is this;

    i'd rather play with a pretentious dick who does 3857369373967397982797282795 dps than the most polite person in the world who does 0.0000000000000001 dps.



    Because GW2 is purposefully designed so we don't have to play with that DPS all-star.

  6. #206
    NO ADDON = FAIR GAMEPLAY
    Look WoW with DBM, the game is so easy because of that

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cranberries View Post
    sorry just no

    without dmg meters/wols no-one would have a clue who was bad / who was good.

    the entire point about damage meters is that they show damage done. that's a useful feature. does it lead to bad play? no. i'd rather play with a pretentious dick who does 3857369373967397982797282795 dps than the most polite person in the world who does 0.0000000000000001 dps.
    Is the boss dead? yep
    Is everyone alive? Yep

    You are all good.

    See, there we go.

    Or the alternative:
    Did you pull 15squillion dps? no,
    you suck.
    But I was ccing the adds, ressing you 10 times when you fail to move from fir..
    you suck
    then I took control of the turret to take down the shield so you could dps as if its up you were doing zero dmg
    you still suck
    but.
    15squillion dps is what a noob pulls...you suck...

    extreme I know, but sadly its what we've all seen.

    Also, I will never understand perfering to play with pillocks rather than nice people just over numbers. I've found that with nice people, even if they are not very good, the group atmosphere is much nicer, people stick round longer, and generally you can clear stuff if you talk and explain things, and people appreciate it. Alternatively, that pillock pulling high dps will drop group in a second if it wipes, will not care about anyone else, will probably ninja loot just for lolz and if he needs to go will ninja pull and wipe you just for kicks.
    Last edited by tlacoatl; 2012-08-06 at 07:31 PM.

  8. #208
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlacoatl View Post
    Is the boss dead? yep
    Is everyone alive? Yep

    You are all good.
    Kay. Now do it 30 seconds faster, with 10% less damage taken.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by zeelive View Post
    NO ADDON = FAIR GAMEPLAY
    Look WoW with DBM, the game is so easy because of that
    lold?

    cuz m'uru and kael'thas pre-nerf were easy encounters :')

    gw2 may be designed so you dont need to bring "the best" dps ... but bringing someone who actually knows what buttons to press over someone who doesnt will both a) make a run smoother and b) make a run faster, whether it's enjoyable? for me if i have to do something i want it to be done as fast as possible with as little hiccups as possible (with the exclusion of maybe ... 2 or 3 things ...). that's me tho, people may like the masochistic cutting of their wrists when they walk into an earth elementalist who thinks he can do as much dps as a fire elementalist :')

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    Typical rhetoric from somebody who doesn't know how to use a combat parser. DPS meter isn't the only function, and never has been.
    I know exactly how to use combat parsers to analyse performance, and whilst it has a place in wow or Rift or similar MMOs, its not needed or particularly useful in GW2.

    The DPS healing and survival numbers (mitigation, avoidance, resistances) are needed to be tracked in wow type setups as the trinity means fights have to be structured around requireing a certain amount of dps, a certain amount of healing and for tanks to be able to survive a certain amount of incomming dps and a max hit size. Thats the only way to balance fights set up around the trinity model. And we've all seen how it goes horribly wrong such as in wrath in wow where it got to the point in TOC where incomming dmg had to be so large because of holy paladin heal scaling that tanks got instagibbed on Beasts if two hits landed at the same time. So yes in order to meet requirements like that you need to monitor performance and only take people who measure up (unfortunatly that leads to only taking people who far exceed teh requirements to ensure a smooth run), and only allows for certain optimal builds to put that required performance out.


    GW2 is not like that, if does not matter how tough I am if I cant dodge or have enough utility skills to keep myself alive. My dps does not matter in a fight as an absolute number as aggro is random, and you cant control up time or even opportunities to use certain skills and abilities. Esp as lots of abilities are dual use.

    Yes I can do more dps than the next player, but the next player may be more useful because of utility skills not related to dmg...but a dps obsession ignores that.
    Its making important what you can measure, rather than measuring whats important.

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    Kay. Now do it 30 seconds faster, with 10% less damage taken.
    Which is irrelevant in GW2 since there is no Rage timer mechanic.

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by carnifex2005 View Post
    Which is irrelevant in GW2 since there is no Rage timer mechanic.
    No, it's not irrelevant. Some players actually pride themselves on being better than just what's necessary. You may be fine with mediocrity, but not everybody is.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    Typical rhetoric from somebody who doesn't know how to use a combat parser. DPS meter isn't the only function, and never has been.
    Nah. See, I actually properly use the tools in WoW. However, in WoW, with the holy trinity, you know X will be tanking, Y will be healing, and Z will be dpsing, making the comparison easier. Yes, there are other things to look at, and I look at them when needed, but...and this is where knowing your group is important. A dps might be putting out offheals (if they're able to), if they notice either that it's needed or that someone else isn't pulling their weight (which I guess goes back to, it's needed). Shit does happen, yes, but usually (not always) dps will do damage, tanks will hold threat, and healers will heal.

    In reality, meters don't matter unless something goes wrong (or if you're personally looking to improve even if all went well); people just don't use them properly. And no combat parser will show that X kited Y for Z duration. If you're lucky you'll see uptime for buffs/debuffs, but unless you're using WoL or equivalent, you won't see if that uptime was at times that it was actually most important.

    The point is, in GW2 there's no need for any but personal combat parsers, to help you improve.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    Yeah, Rhandric is right, as usual.

  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cranberries View Post
    lold?

    cuz m'uru and kael'thas pre-nerf were easy encounters :')

    gw2 may be designed so you dont need to bring "the best" dps ... but bringing someone who actually knows what buttons to press over someone who doesnt will both a) make a run smoother and b) make a run faster, whether it's enjoyable? for me if i have to do something i want it to be done as fast as possible with as little hiccups as possible (with the exclusion of maybe ... 2 or 3 things ...). that's me tho, people may like the masochistic cutting of their wrists when they walk into an earth elementalist who thinks he can do as much dps as a fire elementalist :')


    yes, someone who knows what buttons to press.

    Unfortunatly you assume thats to do with dps. In GW2 its more about reaction to events, using utilities at the right time, and so on, not about pure dps numbers.

    Dps is whats easy to measure, its not whats most important. Unfortunatly what is important is impossible to measure on a meter and can only be judged by playing with people.

  15. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by Cranberries View Post
    l
    for me if i have to do something i want it to be done as fast as possible with as little hiccups as possible
    Good news, you don't have to do anything you don't want

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    Yeah, Rhandric is right, as usual.

  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    No, it's not irrelevant. Some players actually pride themselves on being better than just what's necessary. You may be fine with mediocrity, but not everybody is.
    your casual smug superiority is quite unbecomming and is not helping you make your point, You seam to assume that everyone who thinks dps is not the right thing to measure is happy to be a scrub, thats not true. We just think that dps is not what is important, and that performance in this game needs to be judged against another metric.

    telling people that disagree with you that they are medicore and whatever is not exactly making you look good, its making you look like one of those players everyone rolls their eyes at when they stipulate that people need DWhc achv to go on a firelands fun run.....I'm sure you are not actually like that, but thats how you are comming across right now.

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    Kay. Now do it 30 seconds faster, with 10% less damage taken.
    Why?

    I understand the value of parsers, but if content is falling and no one is dying why is there such a huge need to do it more efficiently?

    I understand it on the individual level but why worry about what others are doing when you aren't being held back by them?

  18. #218
    Herald of the Titans Keosen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeelive View Post
    NO ADDON = FAIR GAMEPLAY
    Look WoW with DBM, the game is so easy because of that
    There is a vast variety of addon types, it's not only DBM-like, they could release an API that would allow only addons that tweaking the UI aesthetically like colors, sizes, frame locations, fonts etc.
    Last edited by Keosen; 2012-08-06 at 08:05 PM.

  19. #219
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlacoatl View Post
    You seam to assume that everyone who thinks dps is not the right thing to measure is happy to be a scrub
    You're assuming that people like me measure DPS and only DPS. You're so focused on DPS, when measuring DPS barely factors into it at all. That's why I think the way I do about you. There is no single metric for performance. Not in GW2, and also not in WoW. Never has been, never will, and those that believe otherwise are the ones the elitists talk about with such condescension.

    You're also assuming that "combat meter" is "How much DPS are you doing?" when it encompasses every possible measurable piece of information from combat.
    Last edited by DrakeWurrum; 2012-08-06 at 08:08 PM.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    Kay. Now do it 30 seconds faster, with 10% less damage taken.
    'kay. Replace the Guardian with a Rifle warrior and have the target's RNG not pick me as often for things I personally have to respond to.

    Personal improvement is nice and something we should always be striving for. But you can't really quantify a group's cohesiveness, particularly in such a controlled-chaos environment.
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