Thread: add ons in gw2

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  1. #261
    ag666...

    Did you fight any bosses in the beta?..wait, did you even play the beta?

    The ground AOE's aren't triggered by any of the boss animations, at least none of the bosses I saw.

    Swipes, smashes, cleaves, breaths, etc, etc are.

  2. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by iCandy View Post
    ag666...

    Did you fight any bosses in the beta?..wait, did you even play the beta?

    The ground AOE's aren't triggered by any of the boss animations, at least none of the bosses I saw.

    Swipes, smashes, cleaves, breaths, etc, etc are.
    I didn't say they were animated. I suggested they should have been! Play the game not UI, remember?

  3. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    This is entirely untrue. You're aware that encounters like Heroic Ragnator pre-nerf were not even properly set up in DBM to begin with, and so DBM was entirely unreliable, and the top players just had to figure it out the hard way?

    How do you think people even create the timers and warnings in DBM? By being the first guys there and figuring out how to do the fight! Figuring what's dangerous and NEEDS warnings!
    well generally they take the data released by bliz prior tothe boss going live which sets out all the boss abilities, or the datamined info and create the addon from that.

    Its not trial and error.

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    This is entirely untrue. You're aware that encounters like Heroic Ragnator pre-nerf were not even properly set up in DBM to begin with, and so DBM was entirely unreliable, and the top players just had to figure it out the hard way?

    How do you think people even create the timers and warnings in DBM? By being the first guys there and figuring out how to do the fight! Figuring what's dangerous and NEEDS warnings!
    wow encounters are heavily based around DBM, it doesnt take long to figure out the timings and code it into dbm, normal mode doesnt need the addons as much so most of dbm is developed then with a few tweaks here and there for the heroic encounters, without dbm only the very best of guilds would be able to do an execution fight like ragnaros which is less than 1% of the playerbase.

  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by ag666 View Post
    I didn't say they were animated. I suggested they should have been! Play the game not UI, remember?
    Ohhhhhhhh..you "suggested"

    Quote Originally Posted by ag666 View Post
    You should watch what monster does, so if he starts moving in "aoe in 5 seconds" way - you should run away. Play the game not red circles.
    Gotcha!

  6. #266
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    without dbm only the very best of guilds would be able to do an execution fight like ragnaros which is less than 1% of the playerbase.
    Irrelevant. There's tons of players in even those average guilds that don't use mods out of sheer stubbornness, and pull off downing the hard content, even if it is months later.

    The point I'm making is that you don't need addons to do content. People just use addons because it makes it easier.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  7. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by iCandy View Post
    Ohhhhhhhh..you "suggested"
    Yes, in response to your:
    Quote Originally Posted by iCandy View Post
    if they weren't there then everyone would get hit by every AOE every time it's cast.
    I suggested how Anet could've done it. But they stuck to the circles. The UI they don't want you to play.

    Quote Originally Posted by iCandy View Post
    Gotcha!
    Now you lost me.

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by ag666 View Post
    And what does that mean? Telling is east of Showing? OR are you implying showing is way better than telling? Well that's your preference. Or showing is implemented way better than telling in GW2? True - as there's almost no telling apart from scrolling combat text. But that's there add-ons may come in. So the other preference would be served too.
    That's one reason why addons that give more information than the UI are bad. If you're playing GW2, you are intended/supposed/need to watch the game field, not the UI. There's a huge difference (both in playing and in skill) between seeing the boss slam the ground in front of him vs being told by the UI that the boss is going to slam the ground in front of him. It's a design decision, if you don't like it, well, tough. It's called design intent, not pandering to the players to get more players (and risk turning off players who prefer the play style). There are other games out there that may be more to your liking if that's the case.

    As far as the red/white circles go...they're borderline. Let's play with the idea of watching the target when it comes to doing some aoe move. Great, you know where they cast it. You might know the semicircle where they cast it in (assuming a cast range - radius - and the direction they're facing. But...that's all the information you'll get. Which, realistically, is fine. But I actually see that more as a pvp decision than a pve decision-since certain classes/weapons are more targeted aoe oriented than others, that would give the players playing those classes/weapons a huge advantage that melee and projectile players won't have.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    Yeah, Rhandric is right, as usual.

  9. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    Irrelevant. There's tons of players in even those average guilds that don't use mods out of sheer stubbornness, and pull off downing the hard content, even if it is months later.

    The point I'm making is that you don't need addons to do content. People just use addons because it makes it easier.
    Funny story, when Cata hit the live - I disabled my "DBM" (Bigwigs) because it wasn't updated... and never enabled it after that... I forgot about it, I noticed something weird only at HM Ragnaros. I noticed lack of info. that's when I enabled my "DBM". So as we all can see I did all the T11 content and 6/7 HM Firelands without "DBM".

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by ag666 View Post
    Yes, in response to your:

    I suggested how Anet could've done it. But they stuck to the circles. The UI they don't want you to play.


    Now you lost me.
    If you really want to get nitpicky you could argue that everything on the screen is UI, because it's part of how the user interfaces with the game code. So yeah, everything is UI.

    What they want you to do is watch the "world" part of the UI and not so much the "HUD" part of the UI. That's why reacting to circles around your character ok but watching a timer bar isn't.

    React to what's happening around your character, not what's happening on a bar off to the side.

  11. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag666 View Post
    Funny story, when Cata hit the live - I disabled my "DBM" (Bigwigs) because it wasn't updated... and never enabled it after that... I forgot about it, I noticed something weird only at HM Ragnaros. I noticed lack of info. that's when I enabled my "DBM". So as we all can see I did all the T11 content and 6/7 HM Firelands without "DBM".
    So you killed Sinestra without DBM? hm k

  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by rhinomatic View Post
    If you really want to get nitpicky you could argue that everything on the screen is UI, because it's part of how the user interfaces with the game code. So yeah, everything is UI.

    What they want you to do is watch the "world" part of the UI and not so much the "HUD" part of the UI. That's why reacting to circles around your character ok but watching a timer bar isn't.

    React to what's happening around your character, not what's happening on a bar off to the side.
    Watch what you say.

    He'll probably come back with a response like. "Well if they wanted you to react to your surroundings then why do they have bosses yell emotes? Isn't that just like DBM?"

    sigh..

  13. #273
    Herald of the Titans Grimord's Avatar
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    How dare you suggest or criticize something about Guild Wars? BURN HIM!

    These kinds of posts add nothing to the conversation and only serve as flamebait. Please post productively. Infracted. -Edge
    Last edited by Edge-; 2012-08-07 at 09:41 PM.


  14. #274
    They are unneeded in GW2 and un needed in gaming in general.. I managed to be in a top 3 guild on my sever in wow without a single add on also kicked ass in pvp I've never had anything do work for me I look at my surrounding memorize shit and learn!

  15. #275
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smiteme12 View Post
    They are unneeded in GW2 and un needed in gaming in general.. I managed to be in a top 3 guild on my sever in wow without a single add on also kicked ass in pvp I've never had anything do work for me I look at my surrounding memorize shit and learn!
    Just because it's not needed doesn't mean it shouldn't be added.

    Might as well never add cheese or bacon to my hamburger.

    Might as well not add the little heart icons that tell you when a CPC happens.
    Last edited by DrakeWurrum; 2012-08-07 at 09:46 PM.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  16. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhandric View Post
    That's one reason why addons that give more information than the UI are bad.
    Not more. In different form! That's the only difference! Add-ons can't show more information than the game itself.
    Quote Originally Posted by rhandric View Post
    If you're playing GW2, you are intended/supposed/need to watch the game field, not the UI.
    In every MMORPG you have to watch the gamefield. Add-ons/No add-ons - doesn't matter. You always have to watch the gamefield. You have to move around and watch what boss is doing - even in wow. Actually in wow bosses talk and by hearing what they talk you can learn what they are about to do - you can also watch for boss animations - if case boss starts to cast something special. Wow has all that even more than you could imagine in GW2 if you think about it. But there are add-ons too. That transform all that information into readable form for those who prefer to read. The only difference wow has targeted combat. Nevertheless bosses cleave, and have other frontal aoe that hit everyone - which of course are animated (without any circles, well now there are circles sometimes too, it's a modern trend), and every dragon (well almost) has a "tail rule" for melees. No add-on can help you with that, so you see add-ons don't remove that.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhandric View Post
    There's a huge difference (both in playing and in skill) between seeing the boss slam the ground in front of him vs being told by the UI that the boss is going to slam the ground in front of him.
    No difference. Same shit different media. Same skill is involved - watching/hearing. Playing preference is purely preference.
    Quote Originally Posted by rhandric View Post
    It's a design decision, if you don't like it, well, tough. It's called design intent, not pandering to the players to get more players (and risk turning off players who prefer the play style). There are other games out there that may be more to your liking if that's the case.
    I don't care about it. Design decision is a pile of crap, unless it's really a design decision than it's two piles of crap. All I care about is - no add-ons. Add-ons in no way interract with the "design decision". I think it's purely "financial decision", add-ons API requries a lot of work to implement and then to SUPPORT. I understand them not doing it. But I laugh at their excuse.
    Quote Originally Posted by rhandric View Post
    As far as the red/white circles go...they're borderline. Let's play with the idea of watching the target when it comes to doing some aoe move. Great, you know where they cast it. You might know the semicircle where they cast it in (assuming a cast range - radius - and the direction they're facing. But...that's all the information you'll get. Which, realistically, is fine.
    Of course it's the same information, the same information add-on would tell you if there were no circles but was add-on support.
    But you missed one thing, that goes against the design decision. No? You have to WATCH the MOB, not the UI.

    As for PVP - players should watch what other players are doing - not UI. Right?

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-08 at 01:47 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by rhinomatic View Post
    React to what's happening around your character, not what's happening on a bar off to the side.
    The bar is at the center of the screen over the beautiful bottom of my character. What am I doing wrong?
    I don't see a difference here. Also isn't it a bit presumptuous of devs to tell me HOW to enjoy the game? Why the fuck they care what I WATCH?
    Quote Originally Posted by iCandy View Post
    Watch what you say.

    He'll probably come back with a response like. "Well if they wanted you to react to your surroundings then why do they have bosses yell emotes? Isn't that just like DBM?"

    sigh..
    A good half of DBM messages comes from boss emotes. In case you didn't know that.

  17. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by ag666 View Post

    I don't care about it. Design decision is a pile of crap, unless it's really a design decision than it's two piles of crap. All I care about is - no add-ons. Add-ons in no way interract with the "design decision". I think it's purely "financial decision", add-ons API requries a lot of work to implement and then to SUPPORT. I understand them not doing it. But I laugh at their excuse.
    It's the same idea as artistic integrity. Anet seems to view their game as an art form, and as such, their design decisions are to preserve their art. What you want/think is best really doesn't matter at that point, because they obviously think the opposite of you.


    Quote Originally Posted by ag666 View Post
    A good half of DBM messages comes from boss emotes. In case you didn't know that.
    If I had to ballpark it, I'd say about 80% of DBM warnings are timer based. Very few bosses had abilities/events that weren't timer based, can't really think of any that were based on something outside of that at the moment.
    Last edited by Dodrin; 2012-08-07 at 09:54 PM.

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by ag666 View Post
    -snip-
    Actually, the only information available in WoW addons that's not available without is timers and range meters. Everything else--what they're casting, who they're targeting, how much health they have (which used to need an addon)--is available by default (Combat parsers are technically included, just not presented in the same way). The game field is still important, don't get me wrong, but the information provided by (and available to) addons is almost identical to the information already provided by default (albeit after several iterations).

    Guild Wars 2 doesn't give you that information for a reason -- so you watch the game field. There's a huge difference between being told "The dragon's about to breathe!" and seeing the dragon pull back and start to breathe (fire, poison, ice, whatever) on you. Yes, it's the same information, but presentation is everything.

    Again, the red circles. Seeing where the aoe is going is different from seeing them cast it; seeing them cast it is fine, and I'd support them adding such animations. But unless every aoe is like Dragon's Tooth and gives X seconds before it goes off and hangs in the air or something (which, most player abilities do), it'd be impossible to even hope to dodge them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    Yeah, Rhandric is right, as usual.

  19. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dodrin View Post
    It's the same idea as artistic integrity.
    That's even more lamer excuse.
    Where can be no artistic integrity if you intend to sell your "art" before even starting to "paint".

  20. #280
    Quote Originally Posted by ag666 View Post
    That's even more lamer excuse.
    Where can be no artistic integrity if you intend to sell your "art" before even starting to "paint".
    That's your opinion...

    ..And it's proved wrong with pretty much the entire indie genre of gaming. Artistic integrity matters, not only to developers, but to consumers.

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