Thread: add ons in gw2

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  1. #401
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky_ View Post
    Health globe and dodge bar are probably worst GUI choices. I'm also very annoyed at very basic accessibility error they made positioning enemy health/status frames in relation to those of the player. One is on the bottom, and other is on the top with action in between. The basic rules of GUI design dictate that these should be near each other for ease of accessibility to both at the same time when needed.

    Placing them at opposite sides of the screen suggests that arenanet simply doesn't have anyone in GUI/UI team with actual education on human usability. This is just too basic of an error to be made by someone with even a few university courses on the subject of usability under his/her belt.

    It's pretty harsh to say "they don't have any basic understanding of how to setup a UI". I find the design of the UI fits well with how they want GW2 to be played. I'll admit the globes are hit and miss. My main problem with them is it's easier for me to get an idea of my % of health from a horizontal bar than an orb, but it never tweaked me so much that I ran into problems because of it. The dodge par is perfectly placed, and I can't think of a better way to implement it. The enemy health bar being at the top of the screen helps your eye to move across the screen. So you go from looking at your health, to looking at the enemy, to looking at the enemy's health. This helps with Anet's entire idea of watching enemies for heir telegraphed moves. If you can gather all of your information from one location on the screen, you no longer look where you need to.

    At least that's what I would imagine to be the reason.

  2. #402
    Quote Originally Posted by Jigain View Post
    I'm not sure you understand how "fair use" works. Not only is "fair use" a national clause (not state), but it also has no impact whatsoever on modifying games. Here, I'll even cite it for you:



    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/107
    I'm sure you're swedish, and therefore not so ignorant as to miss the entire point of the discussion. The point being that we're not talking about US law.

  3. #403
    Herald of the Titans Platinus's Avatar
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    I wish you'd be able to change the look of the UI. No extra functionality, just skins.

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  4. #404
    Quote Originally Posted by Gifca View Post
    The reason why arenanet don't allow addons for Guild Wars II is that addons make the game much easier. For example in WoW, Blizzard had to create ridiculous encounters to provide a challenge for top end guilds. This is because mods like Bigwigs and DBM made everything much much easier, since you only had to watch your timers and react to them, instead of the reacting to the world.

    Since they still wanted the possibility of making encounters that aren't ridiculously complicated, they couldn't allow adds. Now they know exactly what people can do, and can design encounters around that, instead of what the possibilities of the computer mastermind is.
    An old, rehashed and long since debunked argument. Top guilds often are forced to raid without most add-ons, as things like data for DMB simply do not exist for them yet while many other add-ons are simply too dysfunctional after major patch. After all, they're pushing world firsts and are people who are gathering this data for add-on makers among other things.

    That and the fact that blizzard itself hosts events where top guilds clear hardest raiding content on vanilla installation live. So your entire argument is based on false premise which has been longed debunked.

  5. #405
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky_ View Post
    An old, rehashed and long since debunked argument. Top guilds often are forced to raid without most add-ons, as things like data for DMB simply do not exist for them yet while many other add-ons are simply too dysfunctional after major patch. After all, they're pushing world firsts and are people who are gathering this data for add-on makers among other things.

    That and the fact that blizzard itself hosts events where top guilds clear hardest raiding content on vanilla installation live. So your entire argument is based on false premise which has been longed debunked.
    So...the thousands of other guilds that don't kill the content until after its live aren't killing that content ANY EASIER because of an updated DBM?

    Hmm....wrong much?

    Addons make the game easier. Whether its 1% or 70% easier, it's still easier. Especially addons like DBM, healbot/grid and Omen(back in BC/WOtLK). They undoubtedly make the game easier.

    BTW, DBM is usually updated enough for guilds to use when a content patch is live. It's being updated constantly while that content is on the PTR.

    Debunked argument my ass. Just because you say it's debunked doesn't mean it's actually debunked btw.
    Last edited by iCandy; 2012-08-09 at 03:38 PM.

  6. #406
    Yeah you watch those World First! videos and it isn't anything even remotely close to the stock UI. They have plenty of addons going.

  7. #407
    Legendary! Luko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhinomatic View Post
    Yeah you watch those World First! videos and it isn't anything even remotely close to the stock UI. They have plenty of addons going.
    Yeah I was going to write this... but let's face it. Most of these people are simply hiding behind semantics to mask the fact that they're having a pissing contest over an opinion.
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  8. #408
    Quote Originally Posted by Gifca View Post
    The reason why arenanet don't allow addons for Guild Wars II is that addons make the game much easier. For example in WoW, Blizzard had to create ridiculous encounters to provide a challenge for top end guilds. This is because mods like Bigwigs and DBM made everything much much easier, since you only had to watch your timers and react to them, instead of the reacting to the world.

    Since they still wanted the possibility of making encounters that aren't ridiculously complicated, they couldn't allow adds. Now they know exactly what people can do, and can design encounters around that, instead of what the possibilities of the computer mastermind is.

    Greets,

    Gif
    This is so true...

    Now I like to play with the UI, especially the position of me and my target health bar and quickbars location. Since I play with keybinds I don't like when quickbars and healthbars are in the very bottom of the screen..I usualy have them just little lower than the middle. Its easier for me to both track environment and spell cooldowns. So at least they must include a built-in UI customization. Its not possible to have a default UI that fits to everyone
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  9. #409
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dodrin View Post
    It's pretty harsh to say "they don't have any basic understanding of how to setup a UI". I find the design of the UI fits well with how they want GW2 to be played. I'll admit the globes are hit and miss. My main problem with them is it's easier for me to get an idea of my % of health from a horizontal bar than an orb, but it never tweaked me so much that I ran into problems because of it. The dodge par is perfectly placed, and I can't think of a better way to implement it. The enemy health bar being at the top of the screen helps your eye to move across the screen. So you go from looking at your health, to looking at the enemy, to looking at the enemy's health. This helps with Anet's entire idea of watching enemies for heir telegraphed moves. If you can gather all of your information from one location on the screen, you no longer look where you need to.

    At least that's what I would imagine to be the reason.
    For once I agree with Lucky, their GUI/UI team didn't do a very decent job insofar as overall positioning in regards to accessibility.

    I'll admit that my setup in WoW isn't necessarily the best, but notice how all the truly essential combat information are basically right near the center of the screen. I could in fact turn off the action bars and minimap and not miss much. Especially the action bars, as ForteXorcist (the gray bar above my player frame) relayed cooldowns to me. I have buffs/debuffs positioned at the top left of the screen, which obviously isn't ideal, but essential buffs are also expressed to me through UI elements near the center of the screen (things like MSBT and Power Auras, which aren't shown on the screen here, were always orientated around my character). Raid frames are visible, but slightly out of the way, as I really only need it for knowledge of what's happening to my group, and for mouseover off-healing.

    It's an older screen of my UI (I can tell because my bindings aren't as thorough, and are a bit off, but I guess "patch 4.0.6" in the chat window is a giveaway), and don't really have an updated one (positions of certain things, like casting bars player/target frames, and size of the raid frames were all adjusted over time) to show how I adjusted it and improved it. And as I said, probably not the best UI ever, especially not if you're a main-spec healer.

    But you should notice that all the essential information from the UI is all in basically the same central area of the screen, not too far from my character's feet, thus encouraging me to keep my eyes on the action, rather than distracting from it.
    Last edited by DrakeWurrum; 2012-08-09 at 06:50 PM.
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  10. #410
    The short answer is no, and the long answer is no. They do not have any plans to add addon support. I'm not a huge fan of the idea, but you kinda just got to deal with it like everyone else. In the end it's not so bad, the game doesn't really need it like WoW does for example.

  11. #411
    Quote Originally Posted by iCandy View Post
    So...the thousands of other guilds that don't kill the content until after its live aren't killing that content ANY EASIER because of an updated DBM?

    Hmm....wrong much?
    Read the original argument. You're running a strawman argument in the quote above. We were specifically talking about top players.

  12. #412
    Herald of the Titans Jigain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky_ View Post
    I'm sure you're swedish, and therefore not so ignorant as to miss the entire point of the discussion. The point being that we're not talking about US law.
    I'm sure you have a basic understanding of the concepts you bring up, and therefore not so ignorant as to miss the entire point of "fair use". The point being that it only exists in US and Israeli law.

  13. #413
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jigain View Post
    The point being that it only exists in US and Israeli law.
    If you are reading Wikipedia. Read it all. Not just the first paragraph.

  14. #414
    Herald of the Titans Jigain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag666 View Post
    If you are reading Wikipedia. Read it all. Not just the first paragraph.
    If you are participating in the discussion. Research your stuff. Not just assume you know it.

    http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html
    http://www.tglaw.co.il/en/article.php?id=109

  15. #415
    Quote Originally Posted by iCandy View Post
    This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Addons are a crutch that people are accustomed to and they feel they can't play the game without them. Even though many can, and many have. Remember, the game came first, then the addons.
    _________
    As for what you said, Crash. Yeah, a UI mod would be an alright feature..definitely not "mandatory" though. Customizing your UI is something I always liked to do but at the same time in GW2 it wasn't something that I was yearning for. They did a very good job of cleaning up the UI imo and there wasn't a time where I said "ugh, I wish I could move this"

    Since you can only have 5 static keys(6-0) and 5 interchangeable keys(1-5) on your screen at a time, there really isn't a legit reason why you need to have an addon like Bartender other than wanting to move the keys to a different spot of the UI. Are you a mouse clicker, Crash?
    Some people like ASDW in conjunction with modifier keys. Not me. I use only E and D for movement (forward and backwards). So that gives me 10-11 very easily accessible abilities. But I need my abilities on the screen to match up with the keys on my keyboard. This is extremely important for muscle memory and hand/eye coordination. That's why the standard WoW UI is and the first incarnation of the SWTOR UI was unacceptable. They only allow you to stack 2 bars. That's not enough. I need three. And I'm sure that others want a full 4 bars for games that offer numerous abilities. So for me, and in this case, a customizable UI is indeed mandatory.

    When these companies start the process of building their UIs, these are very important things to take into consideration. How will people play their game? You would think that we wouldn't even have to discuss such a thing nowadays. But, I digress.

    More on topic: I don't see any need for "actual" addons for GW2. They just need to open up options for their UI in house.
    Last edited by The Clash; 2012-08-10 at 11:24 AM.

  16. #416
    I don't require addons for the game but I don't begrudge anyone that would like them. The only thing I really would like to be able to do is to move skills around on the existing bar. I don't think we are going to see that though because of the method they are placed there.

  17. #417
    Elemental Lord Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jigain View Post
    If you are participating in the discussion. Research your stuff. Not just assume you know it.

    http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html
    http://www.tglaw.co.il/en/article.php?id=109
    Oh the irony. Why are you linking the laws in US and Israel? It doesn't prove that only these two states have such or similar limitations to exclusive copyright laws. Hint: they may have different "title" or no title at all. But there are "fair use" laws almost in every modern state.

  18. #418
    I tanked in wow from classic wow until we downed heroic lichking 25 and quit right after with out the use of any add-ons. It has become a crutch for many people and like one person said before me, a lot of people feel like they can not play with out them. UI skins are not so bad but again you do not need them to simply play a game or to have fun (My opinion of course)

  19. #419
    Elemental Lord Elim Garak's Avatar
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    What about "don't need don't use" principle?
    Let's for the sake of argument accept the notion that add-ons allow more people to see content. (i.e. make the raiding easier) - is it necessarily a bad thing? Climb down from your high-skilled horse and be honest.

  20. #420
    The Lightbringer Malthurius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag666 View Post
    What about "don't need don't use" principle?
    Let's for the sake of argument accept the notion that add-ons allow more people to see content. (i.e. make the raiding easier) - is it necessarily a bad thing? Climb down from your high-skilled horse and be honest.
    It's not an overly terrible thing no... it doesn't effect me as a player directly, but it does undermine the achievement of doing said content without 3rd party tools. Like the 30% buff from ICC, it made the raid easier, clearly, and the achievement of doing it without the buff became kind of pointless for anyone other than server first.
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