Thread: add ons in gw2

Page 6 of 24 FirstFirst ...
4
5
6
7
8
16
... LastLast
  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Deafknight View Post
    Thats how a competition is defined, we limit the game to the skillsets we want to be applicable to it.

    Its fine if Guild Wars says: We want skill in our game to be measured by how good our users peripheral vision is, but this is certainly not the case and most certainly not an entry level they want in a game thats supposed to sell.
    I seriously doubt their decision to not allow add-ons is going to hurt their sales in a significant way. Look at SWTOR, they sold a ton of copies of the game and they had no add-ons and no UI customization. Hell, you couldn't even have more than 2 windows open at a time. Now the lack of those may have hurt their retention of players but GW2 has no sub fee so that makes that point mostly moot.

    What you want is for your skillset to matter more than other players, you are afraid of your skillset being marginalized.
    Its basicly the same as the other side saying: im pissed i cant use my programming skills to write addons that give me an advantage over other players.
    I think what you meant to type there is 'I can't use my downloading skills'. I think we can agree that most of the users of add-on mods don't write them. Furthermore, the two things really aren't comparable. One is an innate ability I have that everyone uses to play video games; I just happen to be better at it than the average person. The other is not required at all to play video games. They really are not on par with one another. And yes, I don't want to see something I have skill in marginalized where it's rendered unimportant because there are other facets of player skill that I don't possess in the same degree. I have to make up for that somewhere but the difference is I'm making up for it with my own innate ability and not some downloaded mod.

    My stance is that there should be a limit on what addons are able to do, or leave em out completely BUT moving UI Elements around is definitely in the range of fair customization. Its equal in all cases, it doesn't cost anything, requires no skillset and is completely subjective.
    That's your opinion on it, fair enough. My opinion happens to be different and right now, the game is set up without UI customization. Like I said previously, if they allow it down the road, I'm not going to quit playing. I just would rather they didn't. It's not a huge advantage to me that I can see things without having to move them around but it is some advantage and at my advanced gaming age, I need all the help I can get

  2. #102
    Bloodsail Admiral
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    1,186
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Really? My minimap add on affects my player skills? My auction house mod affects esports? My action bar add ons effect you somhow. Seriously dont be so naive as to pigeon hole add ons in to some ridiculous OP benefit that only the select few use. Add ons offer a huge variety of benefits that are mainly QoL I cant think of many that outright boost your performance.
    You really like hyperbole dont you?

    Point boils down to this: The ui is functional, it provides all the information you require in a manner which fits Anets design goals. So no addons are needed and no addons will be allowed.

    Other MMOs almost require them, take WoW, it gives you more abilities than can be shown onscreen on the action bars...you need addons to enable the action bars. Back when threat mattered a TPS meter was necessary for dps and tanks. Back before the raid frames were updated you needed a decent raid frame addon to heal. If you want to do raids you need DBM or equiv as the fights dont make things clear (you have to pre-emptively pop cds for instance) and are designed around you having them. thats fine, as thats the way wow is set up.

    GW2 is not set up that way. If you need information its given to you, maybe not in a nice UI table/bar but in the actual gameworld.

    Allowing addons changes how you react to the game world. If I have to react to the enemy to dodge, but you get timer bar telling you to dodge, then you have the advantage.
    Ok, I'll grant that some addons do not affect absolute power, but thats irrelevant, the UI does the job fine. Just because other MMOs alllow addons does nto mean they all must do. Games did not used to have massive customisation, and lately I've come to the opinion that its quite lazy to rely on addons to make up for short commings in the default UI.

  3. #103
    Herald of the Titans Keosen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Sin City
    Posts
    2,708
    It would be nice to have unitframes addons at least.
    Entirely aesthetic addons like bar textures, fonts, colors, movable objects etc won't bother anyone i guess, too bad they won't be available.
    Last edited by Keosen; 2012-08-05 at 02:58 PM.

  4. #104
    Legendary! draykorinee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Ciderland, arrgh.
    Posts
    6,422
    Quote Originally Posted by tlacoatl View Post
    You really like hyperbole dont you?
    Used to it from anet and gw2 forum community i guess. The point originally was that it gives you this huge benefit to stomp other people, they dont they mainly affect QoL. People have already said they want to resize the ui because it doesnt suit them, I've said I'd like an auction house add on to properly track my sales etc. I do however concede its unlikely and really just QoL issues but not everyone agrees that add ons are bad or uneccassary.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Merendel View Post
    I submit AVR as exhibit
    Not much of a problem. Blizz had the ability to deactivate the function.

    Players are clever, yes. Noted.

    Like it or not the addons do impact game development. How much of that impact lands on the pro or con side of the final tally is totally subjective.
    Yes, of course they do impact game development. Would not suggest otherwise.

    The pros & cons of addons as a feature are actually not subjective. Your [in the royal sense] personal opinion of addons is subjective- that isn't too important or worth discussing. Honestly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malthurius View Post
    Sounds like the developers use the addon as a failsafe for their own shortcoming<snips>
    I see no problem here. Crowd sourcing is a potentially huge resource. "A failsafe for one's shortcomings" seems terribly narrow and foolish in light of the cost effective resource provided.

    With or without addons, no game is developed or designed to account for everything. Especially in regards to emergent &/or live game environment. That is impossible. Flatly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Falkenburg View Post
    Hmmm? I can think of a few situations off the top of my head: the rogue poison swap where automating the swap with macro/addons led them to break the functionality rather then let it continue, decursive (of course), <snip>
    Still don't see these as a problem. Addon functionality can be shut off. Merely an API issue.

    Encounters can be readjusted with data uniquely provided by the player base's expectation of the interface and encounter. Seems super valuable to me as a developer.

    Also a lot of what is being talked about here is World of Warcraft specific stuff. This is not necessarily awesome. Many MMOs allow addons w/o these "issues" popping up.

    Besides, your definition of the problem is somewhat problematic, "negatively impact games to any equal or greater degree..." calls for a bit of a judgement call.
    I would disagree. It is the lesser to deny features in total.

    That is, an attitude that for virtually every task, the key is not to "get better", it's "get the right addon and it's easy". <snip>
    Kind of a personal call, no?

    Anyone is free to use addons or ignore them. If one does not desire a so-called "easy" experience-- don't use 'em!

    As has been observed elsewhere, a key consideration in much of these decisions seems to be the desire to work towards eSports. <snip>
    Well, some Esport games allow modification currently. Don't see a problem that can't be handled by a smart script of some kind.

    Also this gets into an issue of corrupted game design when setting up an aspect of a game for PVP/Esports which has an impact on non-PVP/Esports.
    Last edited by Fencers; 2012-08-05 at 03:14 PM.

  6. #106
    Bloodsail Admiral
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    1,186
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Used to it from anet and gw2 forum community i guess. The point originally was that it gives you this huge benefit to stomp other people, they dont they mainly affect QoL. People have already said they want to resize the ui because it doesnt suit them, I've said I'd like an auction house add on to properly track my sales etc. I do however concede its unlikely and really just QoL issues but not everyone agrees that add ons are bad or uneccassary.
    there are options to resize the UI already (may not have been activated in beta but they are there).

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by carnifex2005 View Post
    And you're missing the point if you think that. There's no reason for addons if the UI is well designed. I believe everyone should be using the same UI anyways. No advantage for anyone (and that is what addons are for in WoW, something to give an advantage that the game doesn't give you naturally).
    Do you complain if someone has a bigger TV than you, because they have an advantage in viewing pleasure? That's what we're talking about here, tweaking the UI for our personal tastes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky_ View Post
    ...
    Most people who bother to come to these forums and ask for features they want generally want a game that best suits their needs. They want a game that they will be comfortable playing for a long time. And then comes the local lynch mob and hangs them. Every time. While chanting "it's not WoW, go away" to the point where mods often have to tell them to stop, just like in this thread, and every other thread on this subject.
    ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerom View Post
    Warning, slippery slope argument in coming: Now you are being silly on purpose. People play games differently, some have small screens some have big screens, some even plan on playing with a gamepad from the couch on TV. Being able to move and resize the UI elements around to fit your play style is about as reasonable as asking for key binds or are you going to tell that because there are only ten buttons they are not needed either?
    Quote Originally Posted by Deafknight View Post
    Thats like someone with photographic memory complaining that normal people are allowed to look at things twice.
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Really? My minimap add on affects my player skills? My auction house mod affects esports? My action bar add ons effect you somhow. Seriously dont be so naive as to pigeon hole add ons in to some ridiculous OP benefit that only the select few use. Add ons offer a huge variety of benefits that are mainly QoL I cant think of many that outright boost your performance.
    This, this, this, and this.

  8. #108
    Tweaking the ai would mean that you would be able to resize every part of it seperatly, so buffs/debuffs could be shown bigger on the screen and that's a clear advantage in pvp. Nonetheless, this discussion is pointless, Arenanet has already said that the engine wasn't built around supporting addons, so they most probably will never come and that's a very good thing in my opinion. But there should deffinatly be a separate castbar for makros, nothing that involves combat abylities, i just want a /dance, a /lol, a /facepalm and a /spit makro

  9. #109
    Legendary! draykorinee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Ciderland, arrgh.
    Posts
    6,422
    I cant see how everyone having the option to resize a debuff or buff would give people an advantage when you can all do it. And you really want a spit macro?

  10. #110
    Stood in the Fire SarSil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Portugal
    Posts
    427
    Quote Originally Posted by Grugmuc View Post
    There's really no need for Add-Ons in Guild Wars 2.
    ^This

    Besides, they have been super receptive and already implemented a lot of features players requested from one Beta Weekend to the other, which is impressive.

    I've heard that you will be able to "Skin" the UI to your liking (don't know if it's true, would appreciate if anyone could confirm it). But no Add-Ons, thankfully!

    Add-Ons were a disaster in WoW. I'm not having fun playing numbers or having some program tell me what to do in PvE, and Add-Ons like Proximo/Gladius are even worse...they give such an advantage in Arena, it's ridiculous.
    Last edited by SarSil; 2012-08-05 at 06:47 PM.

  11. #111
    Herald of the Titans Keosen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Sin City
    Posts
    2,708
    Quote Originally Posted by Grugmuc View Post
    There's really no need for Add-Ons in Guild Wars 2.
    Entirely objective opinion.
    I don't like the font, the textures and the position of my bars so for me it would be nice to be allowed to tweak them or the option to make an addon that will do the job instead of ANet.

  12. #112
    Dislike addon's.

    Prefer it when they are not even an option IMO anyway.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    ...
    Not much of a problem. Blizz had the ability to deactivate the function.

    Players are clever, yes. Noted.
    ...

    Well, some Esport games allow modification currently. Don't see a problem that can't be handled by a smart script of some kind.

    Also this gets into an issue of corrupted game design when setting up an aspect of a game for PVP/Esports which has an impact on non-PVP/Esports.
    Precisely: there is a problem, it's just one that some people think can be easily handled. ArenaNet disagrees. It's a problem they don't want to have to deal with, and I agree with them. Some people don't. They are free to vote with their wallets it would seem.

    It's really quite unclear to me why people have this expectation that they should be able to alter this product.

    Can you change the UI in God of War? In Street Fighter IV? In Starcraft? That last one is actually a crux question: Starcraft is played at very high levels of competition, what level of modification to the UI is possible in that? (Outside of non-standard game modes, it seems not a lot.)

    In the end, it all comes down to a simple question: is there actually a significant market fraction that would not buy the game because it lacks mods? Remember, allowing the player base to mod the game has an initial and ongoing cost to the developer, as even Fencers above notes, it requires staying abreast of developments and applying periodic fixes.

    Which means additional personnel. Which means costs.

    Is there any real evidence that these costs would be justified? Considering the interest in keeping the game focused on skill and situational awareness, what premium comes from allowing people to change the playing experience?

    Meh. In all honesty, I simply don't care enough about this topic to continue much with the discussion, which is sort-of my point above. I simply don't think that there is much of a population that would buy GW2 but for the ability to tweak the UI. I'm getting the game because I love the look of it, and $60 (or whatever) for a game of this size and scope seems like great value for money.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Falkenburg View Post
    Precisely: there is a problem, it's just one that some people think can be easily handled. ArenaNet disagrees. It's a problem they don't want to have to deal with, and I agree with them. Some people don't. They are free to vote with their wallets it would seem.
    Oh I agree it is Anet's decision to allow or disallow addons as they see fit.

    It's pretty clear that addons will never be part of the Guild Wars franchise to even a small degree as in other MMOs. So it is less fruitful to speak on what Guild Wars & Arena.net desire for their product w/r/t addons- we know already. In the absolute.

    The more interesting and worthy discussion is what addons bring to a game as a feature set to the end user. And in a wider sense, what/how that compares to the design of other games.

    That we can talk about reasonably.


    [Personally speaking, I am not much of an addon user in any game. Don't see much value they would have in GW2. UI modification is a different aspect from addons and another subject entirely.]
    Last edited by Fencers; 2012-08-05 at 07:11 PM.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Osprey39 View Post
    I'm not asking for anything to be banned. I'm just advocating that they keep the game the way it is. If they added the ability to move UI elements around, I wouldn't like it because it marginalizes the skills of peripheral vision and, to an extent, situational awareness. It wouldn't be the end of the world to me but I wouldn't be in favor of it.
    Okay. Removed, excluded, axed, trimmed, streamlined (my personal favorite), left out, killed...

    Pick the name you like the most. The meat of the argument remains the same: you have a desire to reduce overall game functionality for everyone, because a condition specific to you enables you to compensate for reduced functionality more so then other people.

    I can understand this point of view. It's a very humane and honest one, and I respect the fact that you're man (woman?) enough to admit it openly. I also emphasize that I disagree with this point of view as well. But you certainly have a right to it just as much as I have a right to mine.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Falkenburg View Post
    ...
    Can you change the UI in God of War? In Street Fighter IV? In Starcraft? That last one is actually a crux question: Starcraft is played at very high levels of competition, what level of modification to the UI is possible in that? (Outside of non-standard game modes, it seems <snip>.)

    In the end, it all comes down to a simple question: is there actually a significant market fraction that would not buy the game because it lacks mods? Remember, allowing the player base to mod the game has an initial and ongoing cost to the developer, as even Fencers above notes, it requires staying abreast of developments and applying periodic fixes.
    ...
    An interesting point regarding those other games, but there's one difference. Those other games are not MMOs. They have set game modes and that's it. In an MMO there are lots of different activities, different players certain mixes of those activities, and thus different aspects of the UI gain or lose importance.

    As for mods being a deal-breaker, I don't believe anyone has suggested they would or would not buy the game depending on the availability of mods. I certainly have not.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Keosen View Post
    Entirely objective opinion.
    I don't like the font, the textures and the position of my bars so for me it would be nice to be allowed to tweak them or the option to make an addon that will do the job instead of ANet.
    You need to look up the definition of 'want' and 'need'

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-05 at 03:25 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky_ View Post
    Okay. Removed, excluded, axed, trimmed, streamlined (my personal favorite), left out, killed...

    Pick the name you like the most. The meat of the argument remains the same: you have a desire to reduce overall game functionality for everyone, because a condition specific to you enables you to compensate for reduced functionality more so then other people.

    I can understand this point of view. It's a very humane and honest one, and I respect the fact that you're man (woman?) enough to admit it openly. I also emphasize that I disagree with this point of view as well. But you certainly have a right to it just as much as I have a right to mine.
    Yeah, lol, I'm a guy and yes, you have a right to disagree with me. I have no problem with you doing so as long as we can have a civil discussion about it (which we are.)

  18. #118
    arena net can easily add needed UI comfort functions via patches, you dont need addons for that.

    i think the qol issues is used as an excuse for people who want addons to make the game easier in an aspect for them.

  19. #119
    The Lightbringer Karizee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    The Eternal Alchemy
    Posts
    3,941
    Quote Originally Posted by Falkenburg View Post
    It's really quite unclear to me why people have this expectation that they should be able to alter this product.
    Especially since the developers have clearly stated it's one of the Basic. Core. Design. Philosophies. for the player to play the game, not the UI.
    Confusing really how people fail to grasp that
    Who knows more of gods than I? Horse gods and fire gods, gods made of gold with gemstone eyes, gods carved of cedar wood, gods chiseled into mountains, gods of empty air... I know them all.
    ~Euron "Crow's Eye" Greyjoy

  20. #120
    A couple of people have brought up the fact that addons make the game less accessible for new players, and I would like to add that I think that addons especially make the game less accessible for people watching streams. If someone has never even played the game before then the fact that every streamer is using a different custom interface and list of addons will definitely make it more challenging for them to start understanding how the game works.

    Client-side addons don't really exist in any other multiplayer games except mmo's, maybe it's time to see if mmo's can do without them as well?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •