Katie Ledecky(US), 15 year-old swimmer doped?

[greysinsanderson]

"She swam fast so she must be cheating" isn't an expert opinion at all, it is speculative conjecture and there is no way it would stand up in court.

who knows more about swimming than coaches with decades of experience with swimming? that's expert evidence and i'll provide you with the same link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expert_witness

you also like to throw around libel/slander a lot like you know what that means. not only is it VERY difficult to prove libel/slander in court, which is why 97% of cases are dropped, but it MUST involve hindering someone's ability to generate profit from the thing you slandered them over. calling someone a cocksucker isn't libel/slander because he is straight. it's just not nice.

[steveyboy]

He is an expert in doping is he?

The OP never provided a source for his previous accusations and still claimed the british team cheated.

[Deleted]

Honestly, you are arguing with a lawyer over what evidence and hearsay is.

I'm arguing with a lawyer who thinks it is ok to publicly call somebody a drugs cheat. I think that pretty much sums up how redundant this is.

[rigoremortis]

Sorry, but to think that age has anything to do with doping is naive. There are multiple documented cases of gymnasts doping before their teens. While the type of drugs that the gymnasts take are different, age, sport, or gender will never affect the desire to win. In many cases the parents are just encouraging the passion displayed by the child. While we may not feel it is morally acceptable, would you tell your child that they can't fulfill their dream?

i merely stated that its not good for the body at a young age, im not naive. if the only means to "fulfill" their dream is via drugs, then id gather im a pretty fuckin horrible parent to allow it, lol.

not being a parent currently, i cant say 100%, but im pretty certain since my parents weren't idiots, id try to teach my children that taking drugs to "fulfill a dream" is not the best way to go about it, as there are countless other cases of people doing just that to get to the olympics!

[greysinsanderson]

He is an expert in doping is he?

who accused them of doping? they have only said it was suspicious, get your facts straight. here are some quotes:

“That’s a massive improvement for a developing athlete,” said Jonathan Dugas, adjunct professor of exercise physiology at Loyola University in Chicago and co-founder of the blog The Science of Sports.

“The differences in the athletes at that level are very small,” Dugas said. “To suggest she was much slower and then sped up so much at the end, it goes against everything that we know about how athletes pace themselves at that level.”

“If you put that together with her pacing and that she matched or had gone better than a male counterpart, the evidence stacks up against her,” Dugas said.

Frank Busch, national team director for USA Swimming, was more gracious, calling Ye’s final 100 meters on Saturday “more than remarkable, phenomenal.”

Was he concerned that what Ye had done was not legitimate?

“I would never go there,” Busch said.

[Xanjori]

get your facts straight.

I would but there are none. Its a simple case of mud slinging.

[Deleted]

who knows more about swimming than coaches with decades of experience with swimming? that's expert evidence and i'll provide you with the same link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expert_witness

you also like to throw around libel/slander a lot like you know what that means. not only is it VERY difficult to prove libel/slander in court, which is why 97% of cases are dropped, but it MUST involve hindering someone's ability to generate profit from the thing you slandered them over. calling someone a cocksucker isn't libel/slander because he is straight. it's just not nice.

You should probably acquaint yourself with UK libel law.

[jbhasban]

who knows more about swimming than coaches with decades of experience with swimming? that's expert evidence and i'll provide you with the same link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expert_witness

you also like to throw around libel/slander a lot like you know what that means. not only is it VERY difficult to prove libel/slander in court, which is why 97% of cases are dropped, but it MUST involve hindering someone's ability to generate profit from the thing you slandered them over. calling someone a cocksucker isn't libel/slander because he is straight. it's just not nice.

Uhhhh... you are wrong. You do not have to prove economic loss for a libel claim. You do for a slander claim unless it is slander per se. You can sue over purely emotional harm. The reason most libel/slander claims are dismissed is because the 1st amendment is very protective. When you write something about a public figure over a matter of public concern that is false, the public figure would have to prove not only damages (which I agree is hard to prove) but also that the person who wrote it was malicious. That is, you would have to prove the person was reckless to the falsehood of the statement or otherwise knew the statement was false. Proving recklessness is hard.

[greysinsanderson]

I would but there are none. Its a simple case of mud slinging.

well the american director said it was “more than remarkable, phenomenal.” then refused to "go there" when asked about if it was legitimate. since then, a few american/non-american papers have discussed the subject with scientists/professionals and gotten their opinion. US has been blasted because of it because it's the cool thing to do, and that's about it. one side has a history of cheating in women's swimming and being totally irrelevant until they started, the other side has a history of winning that dates back the better part of a decade

[Deleted]

What do steroids actually do?

[Deleted]

Are you at this again?

After failing to prove the rowing issues as "cheating" your now claiming some american is cheating.

You have failed to bring up any valid sources or proffesional opinions without links to prove what you said.

They have had 14-15 year old gold medalists before.

Just logged in from my Brothers account. I have plenty of artichles and statements but those are in Danish and since i am pretty limited in English i am not going to translate them(you would not know if i was lying anyway).

[jbhasban]

What do steroids actually do?

Increase your testosterone levels to unnatural levels. This has the effect of reducing the time it takes your muscles to heal after working out, decreasing the amount by which your body destroys muscles after you use them, and increasing your muscular capacity. It has a lot of other effects too (creates legions on your organs, decrease HDL levels, causes heart attacks, emotional effects, etc).

[Deleted]

Increase your testosterone levels to unnatural levels. This has the effect of reducing the time it takes your muscles to heal after working out, decreasing the amount by which your body destroys muscles after you use them, and increasing your muscular capacity. It has a lot of other effects too (creates legions on your organs, decrease HDL levels, causes heart attacks, emotional effects, etc).

This sounds silly, But I actually thought they made peoples bones bigger- Doh - Like growth hormones

This is because a skinny fella I went to school with, and when I say skinny he was like a pencil, I saw him in the supermarket a while back and his is now huge- as in muscles and his wrist are like thicker then my ankles - and he takes them He told me

[Hanto]

lol, so when you can't intelligently argue your position, you infract people? reported for abuse of powers. if a PROFESSIONAL COACH who works with these athletes for 3+ decades isn't enough to suggest cheating, nothing is. if you had any knowledge whatsoever of the olympics you'd know that 5% are caught during the olympics, the other 95% before/after

you should be dealing with the people who get upset that someone who does something suspicious is suspected of doping in a sport known for doping.

how dare you have the nerve to pretend your uninformed, biased and petty opinion is worth more than people who've spent their lives in the sport. shame on you.

Just because a professional coach says "OH SHE'S GOTTA BE CHEATING" does not mean, by any stretch of the imagination, that the person(s) in question are cheating. EVERYTHING is speculation at this point. This whole ordeal can be looked at with the saying "Innocent until proven guilty." There will be checks done and guess what? If nothing shows up, she/her coaches/the whole damn government or whatever (because we all know it's a government conspiracy after all, since we're in the realm of making wild accusations) are in the clear!

Why is it so freaking hard for people to look at things objectively, without crediting something as a fact while missing substantial evidence? Is it that hard to believe that some people have natural ability that exceeds others? I don't know much about this whole thing (going to read up on it now), but unless a medical professional that has tested her blood for foreign matter declares she's been found guilty of doping, I for damn sure am not going to be holding the guillotine over her head like so many other trigger-happy people seem to be based on the whim on some probablyjealous/unbelieving coach.

[jbhasban]

Just because a professional coach says "OH SHE'S GOTTA BE CHEATING" does not mean, by any stretch of the imagination, that the person(s) in question are cheating. EVERYTHING is speculation at this point. This whole ordeal can be looked at with the saying "Innocent until proven guilty." There will be checks done and guess what? If nothing shows up, she/her coaches/the whole damn government or whatever (because we all know it's a government conspiracy after all, since we're in the realm of making wild accusations) are in the clear!

Why is it so freaking hard for people to look at things objectively, without crediting something as a fact while missing substantial evidence? Is it that hard to believe that some people have natural ability that exceeds others? I don't know much about this whole thing (going to read up on it now), but unless a medical professional that has tested her blood for foreign matter declares she's been found guilty of doping, I for damn sure am not going to be holding the guillotine over her head like so many other trigger-happy people seem to be based on the whim on some probablyjealous/unbelieving coach.

Innocent until proven guilty speaks to civil and criminal liability and has no sway in the court of public opinion. I am of the opinion that people are guilty until proven innocent.

---------- Post added 2012-08-05 at 06:16 PM ----------

This sounds silly, But I actually thought they made peoples bones bigger- Doh - Like growth hormones

This is because a skinny fella I went to school with, and when I say skinny he was like a pencil, I saw him in the supermarket a while back and his is now huge- as in muscles and his wrist are like thicker then my ankles - and he takes them He told me

Actually, it can cause hypogonadism (small balls). They have no effect on the penis, though.

[conscript]

Ledecky's increase in the finals over the heats was 1% and change, quite similar to what most people show. Sun who won the 1500m men's had a 12.23 second increase over his heat for a similar percentage. Most swimmers show an increase from the heats to the finals. Pretty much everyone but the favorite from Denmark improved. The Spanish woman who finished second had a 6.5 second increase in her time which isn't drastically different than Ledecky's 9.21 second increase. Its a distance race. It doesn't take much at all to have what appears to be a sizable increase in your times but in reality 9 seconds in a 8 or 14 minute race isn't all that significant at all. Plus she didn't even break the WR let alone shatter it like you would expect from someone doping.

[Deleted]

I seriously don't understand how a 15 year old girl can beat top professional girls in their mid 20's.

In few month she improved her time with more than 10 seconds, it's not possible without doping in my opinion. I have a huge passion for swimming and know how hard it is to improve your personal best. Therefore i seriously doubt Ledecky won fair and square.

Hard work won't do it alone in this case, sorry.

Wow, I sure hope you aren't a sporting coach, or a sportsman for that matter.

People accusing people of cheats solely based on outstanding performance makes me sick.

[Deleted]

Because this is the first teenager to win this year... especially in swimming... right?

Are you being sarcastic? Lol if not then there was that 15 year old Lithuanian girl who won the gold in the 100m Butterfly I think?

[steveyboy]

Are you being sarcastic? Lol if not then there was that 15 year old Lithuanian girl who won the gold in the 100m Butterfly I think?

Yeah this is true. Wasn't phelps facerolling people from a fairly young age too?

[Fleuria]

ZZZZZZZZZZ accusations like this is just boring, 15-16 seems to be the ideal time when swimmers come through, phelps/thorpe etc