Insta casts in PvP, too much?

[Deleted]

So, I've been trying to get some PvPing going. Meeting casters, I see they barely even actually cast anymore, why not just call them insta-casters instead of casters? Most of them just run around spamming instant spells with no ability for me to stop their casting.

Are they going to reduce the insta-cast spamming in MoP or should I just reroll to something that's got a silence?

[Deshi]

I think you just need to stick to your class and play more. Playing more with your class in pvp often equals higher skill level and eventually all thoose spellcasters will be wrecked to pieces.

try to learn the specs you have a problem with and duel thoose until you know how to counter it. And being a meele in a bg can be hard times when you got serval casters focusing you, if that happens only thing you can do is hope that your teams healers are good.

But my tip is , dont reroll for the reason you stated. Stay with your class and one day you will realize that you have become alot better!
Peace!

[Deleted]

My problem with too many instant casts is when I'm being kited and, in my screen, I'm literally inside (...) the enemy caster and I still get the "Too far away" error.
And I have quite low latency. If no one has to stop casting, I'll suffer this time to time and it's very annoying.

[Borfl]

I think you just need to stick to your class and play more. Playing more with your class in pvp often equals higher skill level and eventually all thoose spellcasters will be wrecked to pieces.

try to learn the specs you have a problem with and duel thoose until you know how to counter it. And being a meele in a bg can be hard times when you got serval casters focusing you, if that happens only thing you can do is hope that your teams healers are good.

But my tip is , dont reroll for the reason you stated. Stay with your class and one day you will realize that you have become alot better!
Peace!

If only WoW truly worked this way, try telling that to any gimped masochistic warrior that still plays after spell reflect nerf. FotM class > skill, always been this way since the dawn of arena.
1v1 isn't balanced(nor is 2's or 3's or PvP for that matter)

OP, just a prediction but anyone that's not a monk in the beginning of MoP is going to feel exactly what everyone else felt in WotLK 3.0 with DKs. Blizzard doesn't learn from their mistakes and they will repeat it again I guarantee this for the next 9 months after MoP as well.

[Deleted]

For frost mages, eh, yes I can somewhat agree, I think ice lance should be brought down to do far less damage outside of frozen damage as it is very easy to kite endlessly and spam damage without ever having to hard cast. But for other caster classes you should definitely be able to outpressure them if they stick totally to instant cast damage. But yeah 1v1 the rules of what is/isn't acceptable go out of the window but that's fun sometimes too

[PizzaSHARK]

If only WoW truly worked this way, try telling that to any gimped masochistic warrior that still plays after spell reflect nerf. FotM class > skill, always been this way since the dawn of arena.
1v1 isn't balanced(nor is 2's or 3's or PvP for that matter)

OP, just a prediction but anyone that's not a monk in the beginning of MoP is going to feel exactly what everyone else felt in WotLK 3.0 with DKs. Blizzard doesn't learn from their mistakes and they will repeat it again I guarantee this for the next 9 months after MoP as well.

Blizzard doesn't care, that's the thing. They don't WANT a balanced game - they want a game where the windowlicker down the street with $15 to burn can pick a certain class or two and be guaranteed to succeed. Their new policies are fucking absurd.

There's nothing wrong with allowing everyone to compete, but there's definitely something wrong with giving everyone a gold medal just for showing up.

---------- Post added 2012-08-06 at 03:10 AM ----------

For frost mages, eh, yes I can somewhat agree, I think ice lance should be brought down to do far less damage outside of frozen damage as it is very easy to kite endlessly and spam damage without ever having to hard cast. But for other caster classes you should definitely be able to outpressure them if they stick totally to instant cast damage. But yeah 1v1 the rules of what is/isn't acceptable go out of the window but that's fun sometimes too

Healers bother me more than mages. Instant cast heals are on too short a cooldown, heal for too much, and are way too mana-efficient.

[RandomGamer]

So, I've been trying to get some PvPing going. Meeting casters, I see they barely even actually cast anymore, why not just call them insta-casters instead of casters? Most of them just run around spamming instant spells with no ability for me to stop their casting.

Are they going to reduce the insta-cast spamming in MoP or should I just reroll to something that's got a silence?

Without instant casts, any caster trained by 2 interrupt classes (mostly melees) would be useless. Plus all specs require some sort of casting to be useful other than the basic damage. Perhaps moonkins could get around just by using instants. But then again moonkins single target pressure without casting (and arguably even while freecasting) is so ridiculously bad it doesn't matter (any decent healer can tie vs a moonkin if the arena goes 1v1)

Mages need to cast frostbolt, scorch/fireball, ab to do any real pressure
Shadowpriests need to cast VT / MF
Shammies need lighting bolt and lava burst
Warlocks cast UA Drain Life/Soul Immolate HoG

Without the above they become severely gimped, Spriest or Warlocks don't get dispel protection without their casted DoTs, non affliction warlocks really need having immolate up, Shammies need stacks of Lighting shield to burst with earth shock and not casting lava is losing their best dmg spell, mages need ab stacks, ffb procs, ignites and hotstreaks procs.

So really the only spec that can go a full encounter without a single cast would be boomkin, but that would leave it without entangling roots, cyclones or single target burst, just spamming IS and MF/SF doesn't do much pressure unless someone paired with a shadowpriest or afflock.

Same goes for healers, only druids can somewhat heal real damage without a cast. Holy palas get around by using their procs for almost instant casts, but still. it depends on a proc, and anyway holy palas and disc priest get interrupt protection cooldowns if they really need to cast.


About MoP reducing the insta-cast spam? I doubt it. Interrupts are now normalized at 15 second cooldowns, so once an interrupt pops you will see casters having 10 seconds or so where they can cast freely. You will miss them spamming their instants during those 10 seconds.

BTW there are more ways to avoid a caster than just interrupting. Experienced pvpers like to dance around casters walking thru to their backs in the last millisecond to force an error and cancel the cast. Using a defensive CD or a CC at the very end of the cast. It all comes with experience.

If you are frustrated by a frost mage beating a melee by just spamming ice lance, well, welcome to the club, everyone is. However it's not ice lance that needs fixing. Their instant is fine. Having enough control to beat you 5k at a time while you are rooted/stunned/frozen/incapacitated, that's the wrong part.

[Deleted]

If you are frustrated by a frost mage beating a melee by just spamming ice lance, well, welcome to the club, everyone is. However it's not ice lance that needs fixing. Their instant is fine. Having enough control to beat you 5k at a time while you are rooted/stunned/frozen/incapacitated, that's the wrong part.

It's not frost mages that annoy me.

get someone to 10% hp
holy paladins come by
got the proc with 2x holy shocks
2x holy shocks
word of glory
that someone is at full hp again without the paladin actually casting anything

or even better, a personal favourite of mine, spirit link totem(Why is that castable while silenced?)

bursting someone really bad with the healer silenced
guy being bursted is at 10 hp
spirit link totem /trollface
ticks once before we can even see the totem is out

I want a longer CD on such things. One should not be able to bring someone back to full health in 3 abilities that can not be interrupted and then redo the same thing a few seconds again. The only class that currently can stop someone from going from 10% to full again is a DK with their healing absorption but even that can be removed pretty fast just by insta-cast heals.

[Deleted]

BTW there are more ways to avoid a caster than just interrupting. Experienced pvpers like to dance around casters walking thru to their backs in the last millisecond to force an error and cancel the cast. Using a defensive CD or a CC at the very end of the cast. It all comes with experience.

That doesn't work unless the caster is a keyboard turner due to latency. In the same way that you can kick a polymorph and still get sheeped.

[icedwarrior]

Blizzard doesn't care, that's the thing. They don't WANT a balanced game - they want a game where the windowlicker down the street with $15 to burn can pick a certain class or two and be guaranteed to succeed. Their new policies are fucking absurd.

Really? They don't care? That's stretching it a bit. I am not debating that things are perfect, or perhaps even in a good state at the moment. But to say that they don't care? At all? They don't want a balanced game? Okay. If you say so.

[PizzaSHARK]

Really? They don't care? That's stretching it a bit. I am not debating that things are perfect, or perhaps even in a good state at the moment. But to say that they don't care? At all? They don't want a balanced game? Okay. If you say so.

If they actually cared they'd realize it's a waste of time to think that you can balance 34 different classes and have a game that makes sense. The best thing they could do if they REALLY give a crap about PvP being balanced is design the system to have one defined PvP spec per class and two defined PvE specs (three for druids.)

[icedwarrior]

If they actually cared they'd realize it's a waste of time to think that you can balance 34 different classes and have a game that makes sense.

Sure, it's a lot of stuff to balance...but you're suggesting homogenization? Just making sure I'm understanding correctly. I like games with differences and classes that play differently, not the same.

The best thing they could do if they REALLY give a crap about PvP being balanced is design the system to have one defined PvP spec per class and two defined PvE specs (three for druids.)

What about hybrids? Are they forced to heal? To dps?

Obviously the more abilities they implement, the more difficult it is to balance, but I hardly thing making everything streamlined and forced to do a specific spec when you're a hybrid is a good thing. I don't claim to have the answers, but I don't think that this is the correct way to go about it.

[Angy]

Sure, it's a lot of stuff to balance...but you're suggesting homogenization? Just making sure I'm understanding correctly. I like games with differences and classes that play differently, not the same.
What about hybrids? Are they forced to heal? To dps?

I have only read the first and this post so, sorry if I missed something.

Exactly the same thing I like, different things around. Definitely not the limited differences we have now.

But I don't get the hybrid question since there isn't any hybrid-pure differences going on.

[icedwarrior]

But I don't get the hybrid question since there isn't any hybrid-pure differences going on.

PizzaSHARK, from what I can tell, wants X spec to be PvP, Y and Z to be PvE spec. For example, Priests would be: Disc is PvP, Shadow is PvE and Holy is PvE. To extrapolate further, what I'm suggesting is that in this system, Priests cannot do effective damage in PvP. If it was: Shadow PvP, Disc PvE and Holy PvE, then Priests couldn't heal effectively in PvP. Get what I'm saying now?

It's easy to say "well, let's just lower everyone's options. That'll make it easier to balance." Yes. That's true. But do you really want that? I know I don't.

[mea]

Well.. remove instant pyroblast too. Should never, ever be anything but a proc to reduce the cast time.

[Deleted]

Caster may have more instant casts, but melee have more gap closers, cc break or ways to deal some damage from range than they had when casters still had to stop for every casting. Why should you be able to interrupt so many things?

[Angy]

Every class having respected pvp talent trees in their own ways is a very good idea. Like priests having their pve specs and 2 pvp specs as both damage dealer and healer, warriors and dks having tanking("tanking" isn't the right word actually. Should be supporting?defending? You get it!) and dpsing pvp talent trees.

But this idea's worst problem is itself. Paladins, druids and monks will need 1-2 more talent trees than others and considering this idea already requires at least 2 more specs for each class and adding blizzard's policy of polishing and renewing with little effort, the idea gets killed almost instantly.

[icedwarrior]

But this idea's worst problem is itself. Paladins, druids and monks will need 1-2 more talent trees than others and considering this idea already requires at least 2 more specs for each class and adding blizzard's policy of polishing and renewing with little effort, the idea gets killed almost instantly.

I honestly have no idea what you're trying to say here. Mind elaborating here? I don't want to make assumptions on what you're trying to say. I want to say you're saying that because hybrids are hybrids, they have too many options, which require more balancing, thus we are in the state we're in? I don't understand the "adding blizzard's policy of polishing and renewing with little effort, the idea gets killed almost instantly." part. I think you're saying that Blizzard takes too long to update their content, so whatever they decide to do, we're stuck with for a while?

Not trying to antagonize, I really just want some clarification. I just think the "take away options" route is not only a bad fix, but an unwanted and uninspired fix.

[Deleted]

Every class having respected pvp talent trees in their own ways is a very good idea. Like priests having their pve specs and 2 pvp specs as both damage dealer and healer, warriors and dks having tanking("tanking" isn't the right word actually. Should be supporting?defending? You get it!) and dpsing pvp talent trees.

But this idea's worst problem is itself. Paladins, druids and monks will need 1-2 more talent trees than others and considering this idea already requires at least 2 more specs for each class and adding blizzard's policy of polishing and renewing with little effort, the idea gets killed almost instantly.

Good idea? No it isn't at all. I bet many players would be very disappointed if Blizzard stated their favourite specialization is no longer viable in pvp and don't except to be able to reach any goal with it (same for pve). Being not well balanced is a thing. Being bad because Blizzard says I don't care about you anymore is another.

[meathead]

If only WoW truly worked this way, try telling that to any gimped masochistic warrior that still plays after spell reflect nerf. FotM class > skill, always been this way since the dawn of arena.
1v1 isn't balanced(nor is 2's or 3's or PvP for that matter)

OP, just a prediction but anyone that's not a monk in the beginning of MoP is going to feel exactly what everyone else felt in WotLK 3.0 with DKs. Blizzard doesn't learn from their mistakes and they will repeat it again I guarantee this for the next 9 months after MoP as well.

Bingo!well said!