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  1. #21
    Well this thread just turned into a QQ thread of people posting false statement without backing them up. She may be OP, but most of your issues just come down to l2p.

  2. #22
    Dreadlord _Fire_'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterisbest View Post




    . Riot isn't very good at balancing their champions.

    .
    You should watch this
    http://extra-credits.net/episodes/perfect-imbalance/

  3. #23
    Mechagnome nachoo's Avatar
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    LoL has the most trolls and the most hate out of any game ive ever fucking played. i love it but man i hate the people who play it.

    OT i think she is a little bit to powerful
    "BC was a hot chick that took alot of work but was rewarding in the end, Cata is the drunk chick that supplied similar results with less effort." -couldnt have said it better.

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    Give up trying to understand her, women tend to handle problems with emotion rather than logic.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    You are so wrong. You are ignoring everything you can use to take care of her in favour of crying for nerfs. She is very strong, but most of your complaints regarding lane phase are based on false and/or exaggerated assumptions.

    Her plants do NOT prioritize champions. If there is a minion nearby it will hit the minion instead, in order to make the plant target the champion Zyra has to go in and autoattack them. You can EASILY take the plants down while they are shooting at minions and it only takes a couple seconds. They won't deal more damage to you than you to them because they won't deal any damage to you. And YES, turrets do target plants over minions and kill them in one hit. You were talking about getting poked at the tower by plants which is bullshit, because any plants under tower will die very fast (only way for them to last a bit is to put them down when a cannon minion or player tank is getting attacked) AND in order for those plants to attack you under the tower Zyra'd have to go into tower range herself and autoattack you, drawing turret aggro. Also, I'll repeat what you ignored. Only the melee plants have a built-in slow. As the word "melee" suggests, they only attack in extremely close range, hence don't even need minions nearby for you to blow them up in a couple seconds.

    Make plants die in one autoattack? In one spell? What else? Maybe they should die when you get near them? They are very easy to take care of in laning phase due to their targeting procedure and they already fall over nearly instantly in teamfights thanks to collateral damage flying all over the place.

    I won't argue about strong teamfight presence, but how about this: instead of crying for overnerfing her, try to look for weaknesses? I've played her quite a bit over past week (gotta have fun before nerfbat hits) and there's a ton of ways to deal with her and use her weaknesses.
    First of all, you need to calm down.

    You are talking about taking down a plant "easily" as if the player playing Zyra will just stand there waiting for you to do stuff. Trying to hit the plant three times with AP AA animation will give Zyra good amount of time to harass you more. Not to mention your concentration is not on creeps atm. And no, if you put down seeds, you won't pop them on a minion wave, you will pop them when someone comes in range to last hit and hit them with AA while popping seeds to get a good amount of damage on the opponent. You can even get a kill this way pretty early on.

    I'll repeat what you ignored, I wasn't talking about just her lane phase. I was talking about overall fight presence. Her plants deal way too much damage along with slows while she can stay back and provide more CC and damage with her E and ulti. Her burst is probably the best right now.

    And I'll repeat what you further ignored when I said that EUW was pretty bugged the last 2-3 days. Some player playing Vayne couldn't AA and an Alister on enemy team could use exhaust without CD.

    Also, you keep talking about turrets and her plants. Why won't you talk about the important stuff such as insane dragon/Baron control? Or the fact that her ulti alone wins the team fight? Or that she doesn't really need to get kills, she can just farm and still be insanely strong? Or the fact that she is strong during every phase of the game? She doesn't have any weaknesses besides the fact that she is squishy, which any Zyra player can counter with a number of things, one of them being staying behind the bulky champions on your team.

    And how about this: instead of protecting OP champions we bring them inline with other champions to make the competition fair asap? Sounds like a plan to me.

    As I said, I have won lanes against her, but in team fights, you cannot stop a quarter decent Zyra player.

    EDIT: You keep mistaking that I'm talking about plant damage while your enemy is under their turret. That's not what I meant when I was talking about harassing the enemy under their turret. It's the insane range on E and the fact that it goes THROUGH the minions and anyone else which you use to harass under turret. It's like Morgana's Q, but doesn't stop on the first target, or like Lux's where it doesn't top on the second target. THAT is OP.
    Last edited by Waterisbest; 2012-08-06 at 11:18 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Culnar
    Sometimes people act like blizzard is their friend who betrayed them and now they're pissed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Vulpei View Post
    Actually the backlash from pandas is because alot of the people didn't grow up.

  5. #25
    Pandaren Monk Kurdiern's Avatar
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    Strong as fuck, needs some changes.

    Damage being applied at the beginning of her ulti? What? Whose idea was this? She can pretty much 100%-0% if she get's a single snare off.
    Q has too low of a cooldown and mana cost for the damage it does.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by _Fire_ View Post
    I have already watched that video, quite a few times. But That's not what I mean when talking about balance. Compare LoL to some other MOBA's, LoL is pretty poorly balanced. Lets not get into that.

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-06 at 10:51 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Trollspwn View Post
    Well this thread just turned into a QQ thread of people posting false statement without backing them up. She may be OP, but most of your issues just come down to l2p.
    Your statement confuses me. First you say she is OP, then you say L2P.

    If a champion is OP it's more of a balancing issue then L2P issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by Culnar
    Sometimes people act like blizzard is their friend who betrayed them and now they're pissed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Vulpei View Post
    Actually the backlash from pandas is because alot of the people didn't grow up.

  7. #27
    The Patient ZerOKami's Avatar
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    She's OP because the pros say so.

    But if you're not a pro and don't have perfect positioning skills, you'll have a bad time because she has no escapes. Not overly annoying imo.

    EDIT: Anivia and Fizz eat her alive so hard her plants just become part of the Rift scenery.

  8. #28
    Extremely frustrating to lane against. Not much more I can do other than try and get a few farm while trying to avoid her sh*t-ton of burst.

  9. #29
    Dreadlord Renwin's Avatar
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    Heh, no wonder why I see a lot of Anivia lately. I thought it was just bird season, but they want winter to come by sooner for Zyra.

    Anyway, I think her ult needs a slight fix by having the damage done at the end of the spell instead beforehand. Aside from that, she's not perfect. She's reminds me of Heim with more burst, CC, and better escape, but being fragile as Veigar and nearly useless without plants around.
    My General Gaming Blog *Latest Updated: 5/30/14*

  10. #30
    She isn't particuarly well balanced, but she doesn't completely break the game. She is very powerful and in the hands of a very strong player, potentially 'op', with insane damage and burst. However as a caster she is so incredibly flimsy with a lack of reliable escapes that I never have much of problem with her as my main champion, Lux. Then again, most Zyras I have played against so far aren't particuarly amazing.

    Zyra is powerful, certainly, but her plants are flimsy, and her ultimate is not particuarly frightening. The most annoying part about her to me is her passive, as it kills me fairly often. I rarely die to a live Zyra, but irritatingly often to a dead one.
    Last edited by Migey; 2012-08-07 at 12:00 AM.
    "English doesn't so much borrow words from other languages as follows them into a dark alley, hits them over the head and goes through their pockets for loose vocabulary."

  11. #31
    Herald of the Titans Caine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterisbest View Post
    <snip>
    ... If Zyra wants to hit you with her plants she has to be just as close as Heimer, because she has to land an autoattack on you(assuming it's in laning). If she's that close there's nothing stopping you from unleashing everything you have on her - OR from backing off from the plant's attack range and then attacking overextended Zyra. Moreover, maybe her Q hits hard, but it's impossible to hit unless you're afk. The same goes for a long range E, unless you sit still and watch stars she will never hit you. (yes, that's all about lane.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Waterisbest View Post
    And no, if you put down seeds, you won't pop them on a minion wave, you will pop them when someone comes in range to last hit and hit them with AA while popping seeds to get a good amount of damage on the opponent.
    Wait, what? What is that someone doing last hitting if there are no creeps around? That's contradictory.
    If someone is in range of a seed then creeps are in range as well. If you pop that seed it will attack the creeps, not the player, and if Zyra wants to autoattack the player staying in the back she has to overextend. If the seed is behind the creep wave on the enemy side it can be stepped on, if it is in front of it it will never be in range to hit the champion, if it's in the middle of the creep wave you can quickly gib the plant without losing any cs. I've been playing Zyra quite a bit and really, the only people I can readily harass with my plants are the overly aggressive, overextending chaps who I'd shit on on any other mid as well.

    Anyway, instead of replying to every single thing: yes, she is OP (I said that earlier.) and yes, she needs nerfs (this too.). But what you are doing is crying, ignoring a multitude of ways you can defend against many of her strong aspects/exploit the weaknesses and instead asking for her to be overnerfed so you don't have to worry about countering her.
    "Defending a position by citing free speech is the ultimate concession: you're saying that literally the most compelling thing you can say for your position is that it's not illegal to express."

  12. #32
    Moderator Axethor's Avatar
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    Here is the problem with Zyra. She is too strong if you are good at playing her, but completely useless if you cannot. If they nerf her, this puts the inexperienced players at an even great disadvantage. As it is now, someone who doesn't know how to play Zyra can do a few things to deal damage, but none of those insane plays and damage a Veigar or Malz could put out with the same amount of skill and effort. This means when a good player gets their hands on her, she will destroy since she is tuned to be at least a little useful at lower skill levels.

    Also, Caine. When a Zyra plant pops up it hits the closest champion in range with one auto attack before focusing Zyra's targets. If she doesn't attack anything, it attacks the enemy champion until it or the champ dies, or the champ goes out of range. I've used this trick many times while playing as Zyra and I've had it used against me.

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  13. #33
    im playing with her since she went live
    and she got countered pretty easly by, kassadin, cassiopeia or champion withh charge like akali, etc...
    learn to fight also hes a cake like ashe until i get zhonyas sand clock
    also the plants have a cooldown of 25 secs o 30 i dont remember... and she can have 2...
    zyra without the seeds can do nothing.. NOTHING! so watch hes seeds once she turned them into plants kill them, then she dont have nothing
    yea bad english gg

  14. #34
    Herald of the Titans Caine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axethor View Post
    Also, Caine. When a Zyra plant pops up it hits the closest champion in range with one auto attack before focusing Zyra's targets. If she doesn't attack anything, it attacks the enemy champion until it or the champ dies, or the champ goes out of range. I've used this trick many times while playing as Zyra and I've had it used against me.
    That's odd. I've played a couple dozen games as Zyra as well as some against her and no matter how I popped the plants, so long as minions were in range they never focused champions - even if those stayed in range all the time. I always had to attack the champion manually to get it to change targets from the minion wave.
    "Defending a position by citing free speech is the ultimate concession: you're saying that literally the most compelling thing you can say for your position is that it's not illegal to express."

  15. #35
    Moderator Axethor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    That's odd. I've played a couple dozen games as Zyra as well as some against her and no matter how I popped the plants, so long as minions were in range they never focused champions - even if those stayed in range all the time. I always had to attack the champion manually to get it to change targets from the minion wave.
    Yep. It took me a few games to notice it and then I used it to annoy a friend who 1v1ed me to see if Swain counters her (Swain does btw). If you last hit or attack a minion before the the plant attacks it will reset the attack animation so it won't happen. It's one of those small things you can use to get the most out of Zyra, but it's not a big deal if you don't do it.

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  16. #36
    Overpowered. Morello even admits it.

    1) Very strong AoE damage.
    2) Ridiculously good utility.
    3) Game-changing ult.

    The combination is way way too strong, and she'll be getting nerfed soon.

    http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...95607#27795607

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    ... If Zyra wants to hit you with her plants she has to be just as close as Heimer, because she has to land an autoattack on you(assuming it's in laning). If she's that close there's nothing stopping you from unleashing everything you have on her - OR from backing off from the plant's attack range and then attacking overextended Zyra. Moreover, maybe her Q hits hard, but it's impossible to hit unless you're afk. The same goes for a long range E, unless you sit still and watch stars she will never hit you. (yes, that's all about lane.)
    In case you haven't noticed while playing Zyra, AA+Plant damage(you will pop two Q plants)+E+ignite(if necessary), means the the opponent is dead. So good luck unleashing on her. She can almost kill anyone pretty easily at ANY stage of the game.

    You can say whatever you want about dodging spells, the fact and REALITY is, you get hit by them, spells are there to deal damage you know, even skill shots, and if you don't get hit by all, you will hit by maybe 1 out 5, maybe 1 out of 10. Last hitting against Zyra leaves you very vulnerable to her Q and W. I don't give a fuck how pro you are, you will get hit by skill shots. The entire, "OMFG IF YOU HIT BY SKILL SHOT YOU'RE NOOB YOU'RE AFK" is total bullshit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Wait, what? What is that someone doing last hitting if there are no creeps around? That's contradictory.
    Yes, you can last hit things if there is nothing around...

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    If someone is in range of a seed then creeps are in range as well. If you pop that seed it will attack the creeps, not the player, and if Zyra wants to autoattack the player staying in the back she has to overextend. If the seed is behind the creep wave on the enemy side it can be stepped on, if it is in front of it it will never be in range to hit the champion, if it's in the middle of the creep wave you can quickly gib the plant without losing any cs. I've been playing Zyra quite a bit and really, the only people I can readily harass with my plants are the overly aggressive, overextending chaps who I'd shit on on any other mid as well.
    Zyra is known for her strong pushing capability and if anyone can kill her plants/seeds as easily like the way you are putting then all the "rumors" about her being a great pusher are false. I don't think so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Anyway, instead of replying to every single thing: yes, she is OP (I said that earlier.) and yes, she needs nerfs (this too.). But what you are doing is crying, ignoring a multitude of ways you can defend against many of her strong aspects/exploit the weaknesses and instead asking for her to be overnerfed so you don't have to worry about countering her.
    WHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAATTTTTTTTTT? So if I say an OP champion is OP and give reasons as to why they are OP, then I'm crying? I completely agree with your hypothesis. NOT.

    How about you provide some of those exploits? Instead of just repeating the same thing over and over and over that she has weaknesses, yet you have given none.

    And please show me where I asked her to get overnerfed? I never asked for her to get overnerfed because I love playing as Zyra and don't want her to be a piece of shit like Heim (who I also love btw), but yes I do want her godly strong presence on every part of the game to be bought in accordance to other AP champions, not nerfed into the ground like you are thinking I have said. When I said no such, just said I see her ulti and plant damage getting nerfed. You seem to make up alot of things in your head and portray it like I'm saying them. You don't even understand half the things I have said and don't even reply to powerful points I have put against her, you just keep talking about her lane phase, for which btw, I have told you that I have beaten her as Ryze, Morgana and LB.

    She is not OP during lane phase, she has a strong lane phase that's all. She is OP at everything else, team fights, dragon control, pushing, zoning near turret, Baron control, burst, CC, peeling, farming.

    And btw, if you think I'm "crying" for nerfs, then I wouldn't be here posting in this thread, I will be on LoL forums. I wouldn't consider posting on this thread because it will be a total waste of time. I'm simply here to tell about how I find her OP and giving explanations for it. You seem to take this extremely offensively and coming on way too strong. Too which I say again, calm down.

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-07 at 02:02 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Axethor View Post
    Here is the problem with Zyra. She is too strong if you are good at playing her, but completely useless if you cannot. If they nerf her, this puts the inexperienced players at an even great disadvantage. As it is now, someone who doesn't know how to play Zyra can do a few things to deal damage, but none of those insane plays and damage a Veigar or Malz could put out with the same amount of skill and effort. This means when a good player gets their hands on her, she will destroy since she is tuned to be at least a little useful at lower skill levels.

    Also, Caine. When a Zyra plant pops up it hits the closest champion in range with one auto attack before focusing Zyra's targets. If she doesn't attack anything, it attacks the enemy champion until it or the champ dies, or the champ goes out of range. I've used this trick many times while playing as Zyra and I've had it used against me.
    The game should be balanced around top tier players. Pretty much everyone agrees on that.

    The plant attacking champions, yes that happens, but I always thought it was some spell damage that Zyra uses which causes the plants to attack the enemy champion. This trick makes her really good at poking, but nothing too ground breaking tbh.

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-07 at 02:03 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Axethor View Post
    Yep. It took me a few games to notice it and then I used it to annoy a friend who 1v1ed me to see if Swain counters her (Swain does btw). If you last hit or attack a minion before the the plant attacks it will reset the attack animation so it won't happen. It's one of those small things you can use to get the most out of Zyra, but it's not a big deal if you don't do it.
    I think ALOT of champions counter her in lane. From my experience Ryze, Morgana and ofc crazy bitch LB all counter her. It's not the lane phase. It was never the lane phase.

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-07 at 02:04 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Damire View Post
    im playing with her since she went live
    and she got countered pretty easly by, kassadin, cassiopeia or champion withh charge like akali, etc...
    learn to fight also hes a cake like ashe until i get zhonyas sand clock
    also the plants have a cooldown of 25 secs o 30 i dont remember... and she can have 2...
    zyra without the seeds can do nothing.. NOTHING! so watch hes seeds once she turned them into plants kill them, then she dont have nothing
    yea bad english gg
    Zyra without seeds is nothing? Wth happened to her ulti Q and W?

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-07 at 02:29 AM ----------

    Forth most banned champion in ranked this week, behind Shen (1st), Malphite (2nd) and Alister (3rd). Banned more then Morgana (5th).
    Last edited by Waterisbest; 2012-08-07 at 02:30 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Culnar
    Sometimes people act like blizzard is their friend who betrayed them and now they're pissed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Vulpei View Post
    Actually the backlash from pandas is because alot of the people didn't grow up.

  18. #38
    Dreadlord Renwin's Avatar
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    And seems like whining for nerf is the winner as usual. As long it's not just nerfing both her CC and damage, I'm alright with what they want to do.
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  19. #39
    Epic!
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    The ults damage needs to be shifted to the knock up, not frontloaded. That's just stupid. Also, watching Scarra play Zyra at ipl is pretty scary. Amazing to see how good champions are in good players hands. I'm expecting a ult nerf and a plant damage and/or range nerf possibly.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Renwin View Post
    And seems like whining for nerf is the winner as usual. As long it's not just nerfing both her CC and damage, I'm alright with what they want to do.
    The whining is justified. Everyone knows she's really overpowered, and the developers agree. At that point, I wouldn't call it whining, but a legitimate complaint.

    See http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...95607#27795607

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