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  1. #1

    [MoP] Eternal Flame Nerf

    As a holy paladin it would normally heal for 30k and tick for about 16k and now i'm seeing numbers similar to a 45k instant heal and a 5k tick. Can anyone confirm or deny the nerf?

  2. #2
    I have not seen this and I've played as recently as last night. Sounds crazy, but check your gear.
    Since dungeons and raids upgrade your gear level (or downgrade it), you may have older gear on outside of an instance - and your heals could be impacted from wearing lvl 85 gear OUTSIDE of an instance...just a thought!

  3. #3
    The Patient
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    This appears to be correct. Just checked on beta, and eternal flame now ticks roughly 1750/3500/5200 with 1/2/3 holy power. This is while using full pvp gear with 18k spell power.
    Tank dies = Maybe healer's fault
    Healer dies = Tank's fault
    DPS dies = Their own bloody fault

  4. #4
    I don't see a change on the PTR, as Ret anyway.

  5. #5
    Can confirm as Holy was getting 20K+ ticks, now I'm getting 5.5K. The initial heal wasn't changed.

    GG Blizz

  6. #6
    You should report it as a bug since there has been no metioned change to EF.

  7. #7
    Ouch...Big Nerf. I guess they want us to use Sacred Shield.
    Unfortunately I'm going to go out on a limb from the PRT testing I've seen and then say that the healers for MOP will now be ranked as such:
    10m: Druid top, Monk 2nd, Shammy/Paly tied for 3rd, Priest last
    25m: Monk top (by far), Druid 2nd, Shammy 3rd, Paly/Priest tied for last.

    Yes EF was that big for us....It's a shame that this nerf is going in, especially in as a hidden nerf...but in a way, it was necessary.

  8. #8
    Blademaster aaniscilla's Avatar
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    Seeing the same thing. Initial heal decent, the HoT is pathetically tiny. It was overpowered, but this feels a little awkward and lacking in potency.
    Silhouette - 10 Man Raiding, US-Sargeras

  9. #9
    Holy Paladins were doing too much healing. You should've expected this.

  10. #10
    They probably saw the logs where EF was accounting for over 50% of healing. It was going to get nerfed. Reducing the tick to heal for the 1/3 of the old value is a bit of a knee jerk reaction though. Given it ticks over 30 seconds and heals for so little of the total healthpool now it isn't going to get used again.

    The problem is it uses HP so it requires a long duration, but with a long duration it needs to do a lot of healing to be worthwhile. They can't balance the spell in this current form.

    Just bite the bullet and remove the HP requirement. Unlink it from WoG, give it a mana cost, reduce its duration a little, pop a 10 second cooldown on it to stop it being spammed and give Paladin heals a way to keep the hot rolling on the tank. But if you take anything away from this, take away the HP requirement. It just makes it silly to balance.

  11. #11
    Blademaster aaniscilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pasture View Post
    Reducing the tick to heal for the 1/3 of the old value is a bit of a knee jerk reaction though.
    It seems they don't know how to do things any other way, these days.
    Silhouette - 10 Man Raiding, US-Sargeras

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Pasture View Post
    Just bite the bullet and remove the HP requirement. Unlink it from WoG, give it a mana cost, reduce its duration a little, pop a 10 second cooldown on it to stop it being spammed and give Paladin heals a way to keep the hot rolling on the tank.
    In four words: give Riptide to Paladins.

  13. #13
    There is no reason why you wouldn't still use Eternal Flame. It still has a large initial heal, still applies mastery, and still ticks through beacon. It is by far better than any other talent in that tier.

    Eternal Flame (combined with the mastery it procced) accounted for more than 75% of our overall healing breakdown. This was obviously an issue that needed to be fixed, but in reality the bigger issue is the current play style of paladin. We need another way to generate holy power that doesn't destroy our mana or makes us sit in melee. All this change really does is force us into using more LoD instead of blanketing the raid with Eternal Flames.

    Ouch...Big Nerf. I guess they want us to use Sacred Shield.
    Unfortunately I'm going to go out on a limb from the PRT testing I've seen and then say that the healers for MOP will now be ranked as such:
    10m: Druid top, Monk 2nd, Shammy/Paly tied for 3rd, Priest last
    25m: Monk top (by far), Druid 2nd, Shammy 3rd, Paly/Priest tied for last.

    Yes EF was that big for us....It's a shame that this nerf is going in, especially in as a hidden nerf...but in a way, it was necessary.
    This is 100% false, both Priests and Shamans have many more issues than paladins. Paladins will be fine even with the nerf.
    Last edited by Envvyy; 2012-08-07 at 12:38 AM.
    Envy <Exodus>

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  14. #14
    This is 100% false, both Priests and Shamans have many more issues than paladins. Paladins will be fine even with the nerf.
    I disagree with you saying this is 100% false. Shammies in 25m haven't been as horrid as they are in 10, but nobody is as bad as a priest right now, which is why I'm putting them as dead last. You're saying that palys will be fine with the nerf? I'm going to do a few LFRs to see how we stand without it (before it was roughly 50% of our heals). I know we were putting up some pretty rediculous numbers...but if they're going to nerf us, please nerf this insane spinning crane kick.

  15. #15
    Sucks that blizzard is always nerfing paladins so bad. They always say " We don't want hybrid class to be so strong on DPS or Healing" and they always keep Shamans, Druids and Priest way better on both roles better than paladins.

  16. #16
    The Patient Kerfax's Avatar
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    I just checked the class feedback forums and found this post from GC (40 minutes ago):

    It's probably not possible to overcome that much of a difference. Fortunately, you don't have to, because paladins and monks both had some egregious bugs that inflated their healing. We actually hotfixed those bugs but then a new build broke them again. Until you get a new build or we hotfix the issues again, you are probably better off comparing druid, priest and shaman healing. I apologize for any inconvenience.

    Overall, I would recommend not deciding who you're going to bench based on beta testing until we are very close to ship. It's not a great strategy to try to get your character buffed either.

  17. #17
    So is it nerfed for Ret and Prot too? I don't see any nerf on the PTR yet. I guess it's sort of hard to tell though, since EF was ignoring the Sword of Light heal bonus, and who knows if that was intended.

  18. #18
    16k initial heal, 5.6k ticks for prot@85, no vengence, no bastion, SP 3838

    34k initial heal with full bastion, prot@85, no vengence, SP 3838

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by mcbubble View Post
    I disagree with you saying this is 100% false. Shammies in 25m haven't been as horrid as they are in 10, but nobody is as bad as a priest right now, which is why I'm putting them as dead last. You're saying that palys will be fine with the nerf? I'm going to do a few LFRs to see how we stand without it (before it was roughly 50% of our heals). I know we were putting up some pretty rediculous numbers...but if they're going to nerf us, please nerf this insane spinning crane kick.
    My experience is from a top US guild, we have tested every fight on beta, I have personally played Paladin, Priest, and Shaman on multiple fights. Shamans are by far in the worst shape right now, they have no throughput and their mana is awful. You need to test things outside of LFR before making accusations or assumptions.

    Paladins will and are fine even with the Eternal Flame nerf. The fact that we have to sit in melee to be competitive is the real issue that needs to be fixed, especially with there being fights that we cannot sit in melee.

    SCK was nerfed as you can see from the other post.

    In the end if you are struggling as a Paladin then you are playing it wrong.
    Envy <Exodus>

    Shaman
    Paladin
    Priest
    Monk

  20. #20
    Envvyy, I wasn't doubting your credentials...that wasn't my argument. Why you stated them, when your signature tells the story is sort of silly imho.

    I have also tested almost every fight on 10 and 25. In fact, I pugged a few fights with your guild.
    This is beta and I know #s will change, but I stand by saying that the EF will kill our HPS, to the point where we're going to be towards the end of the healing meters (though, in the end healing meters don't 'really' matter).
    I never did say I was struggling as a holy paladin, and frankly that wasn't the argument. I was stating how I thought palys stand compared to other healers (in my opinion based upon the meters that I've seen from raid testing).

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