Recent changes, anyone care to give ideas/figures?

[Deleted]

first of all hey, this will be my first post, i have recently moved to the shaman class from a unholy/frost dk. im looking closely at all the changes and patch notes for the upcoming expansion, and i came across this, im sure many of you have aswell (seeing as its on the MMO-champion homepage!)



Shaman

There are several changes coming for shaman in the next build, some of which won’t be easily datamined, so we’d like to let you know about them. We shifted around where damage comes from for both Elemental and Enhancement. The overall damage should be down a bit, but both specializations should still feel strong. Remember, if you’re giving feedback and making comparisons to other classes and specs, please list who you’re comparing to, as it’s quite possible that you’re feeling underpowered compared to someone who is overpowered.

The Fire Elementals were stronger than we wanted, so we reduced the amount of spell power that the standard version gets to 40%, down from 55% (Primal: 60%, down from 82.5%). The Primal Elementalist talent was also too strong, so we reduced the damage of the Primal Fire Elemental’s Immolate DoT by 65%. Also on the topic of talents, Elemental Blast was too weak, so we increased its damage and stat effects by roughly 17%, but reduced its proc chance with Echo of the Elements to 6% for Enhancement (previously it had a 30% chance to trigger an Echo for Enhancement, which made that talent pair too strong).

Further, on the topic of shocks, we recently reduced the shared cooldown of shocks to 5 seconds for Elemental shaman. More recently, we lowered Earth Shock’s damage a bit and significantly increased Flame Shock’s damage.

Specific to Enhancement, we wanted to bring DPS down a bit and also make them feel like more of their damage was coming from their active buttons, rather than passively. The one significant change that you probably won’t be able to datamine is an increase to Feral Spirits’ damage. They now get 50% of your attack power each, up from 30%. And their Spirit Bite ability’s damage has more than doubled. The net result should be that Feral Spirits are significantly stronger than before, probably somewhere between 70% and 100% stronger, depending on gear.


now I'm not one to start shouting nerfs, and yes there is a few numbers being brought down, but there is also a few nice fixes here where numbers are being brought up. I was just wondering if everyone feels these are a step in the right direction? I myself will be playing both DPS specs for the duration of Mists, we have the advantage of not having a hunter in our 10man, and the only druid is a caster (agility rings, trinkets) and I like to make sure of the shamans use to be able to range DPS and melee DPS. To sum a boring story up i just wanted to see how others felt these changes would affect us, I can only see good things here

Lup's

[Dundebuns]

We wont know until the next beta patch. Also this may be better addressed in the larger MoP shaman thread. /whiteknight

[Deleted]

A small nerf is what we get. I'm glad to see they are not overlooking shamans. Now, If only that could be possible in a good way....lol.

[Nebria]

A small nerf is what we get. I'm glad to see they are not overlooking shamans. Now, If only that could be possible in a good way....lol.

Well the positive aspect is they are working on shamans (also they know about shamans mana reg issues) so if things go wrong we might get some buffs again.

[flak]

I imagine the PE nerf will bring echo / elemental blast up to the top spot for enhancement.

[Deleted]

I don't mind as an enhancer about those chances. I decided a while ago, that I will be using UF-talent since the dsp difference between UF and PE isn't that big.
[QUOTE]Specific to Enhancement, we wanted to bring DPS down a bit and also make them feel like more of their damage was coming from their active buttons, rather than passively. The one significant change that you probably won’t be able to datamine is an increase to Feral Spirits’ damage. They now get 50% of your attack power each, up from 30%. And their Spirit Bite ability’s damage has more than doubled. The net result should be that Feral Spirits are significantly stronger than before, probably somewhere between 70% and 100% stronger, depending on gear.[QUOTE]

[Aoyi]

My concern with the blue post is with the echo nerf. I'm not sure whether only the elemental blast chance to proc EoE is down to 6% or if they are reducing EoE across the board for enhance. Going from 30% to 6% is a bit rough in one build. I won't be able to test these changes myself as I'm not going to be back home for a while, but I'll be keeping an eye on this in the forums to see the theorycrafter's feedback.

[flak]

Using purge's numbers burst and overall dps from PE will drop about 17-18% and 2% will be gained from the feral spirits change.

[Nebria]

My concern with the blue post is with the echo nerf. I'm not sure whether only the elemental blast chance to proc EoE is down to 6% or if they are reducing EoE across the board for enhance. Going from 30% to 6% is a bit rough in one build. I won't be able to test these changes myself as I'm not going to be back home for a while, but I'll be keeping an eye on this in the forums to see the theorycrafter's feedback.

based on the text it is just elemental blast as it was a to good combination for them. so the rest should stay at 30%
let'S see what the numbers are. also flameshock increased significantly sounds interesting

[Tharkash]

The overall damage should be down a bit, but both specializations should still feel strong. Remember, if you’re giving feedback and making comparisons to other classes and specs, please list who you’re comparing to, as it’s quite possible that you’re feeling underpowered compared to someone who is overpowered

This line here worries me. Judging from their track record (you can look at DS numbers alone if you'd like, but I've been around for a lot longer than that) Blizz doesn't nerf overpowered classes quickly, if at all. So if we're weak compared to overpowered classes that is the same as being weak overall. Now, we'll have to wait to see the numbers, but if this is WotLK all over again I'm going to be pissed.

[Thalais]

Personally, I don't understand the EoE nerf to EB.
It is a 12 second CD that really is a neat ability but isn't that much better than a LvB/maxed LB.
Yes we get a small buff, but going from 30% to 6% is a radical change.

So far, what I have seen with the recent changes to Shamans, almost everything has been very radical and I have no clue why they are doing it.

UF losing LvB was one of the big ones for me. It was the on demand burst Elemental needed. I'm very tired that our abilities with CD's are being nerfed yet they let ice lance frost mages hit you for 300,000 crits after the latest build which they did something to resilience I think but no one on beta can figure out why they went from unkillable to now kind of killable.

I have been posting on the forums they have to do something with our shocks, but I wasn't talking about damage. I was mentioning that we need that shared CD removed all together. Having FS and ES 1 sec shorter doesn't help the glaring issues of Shocks being weak compared to other instant casts and we cant spam our shocks. If the ICD was removed, we will still have the CD's but at lease we could use all 3 shocks for PvP. Using all 3 shocks in a PvE scenario wouldn't help elemental or enhancement as that will only cause more issues with rotations and white hits (Enh).

[Delanath]

I think they were inferring that the Flameshock change was already implemented. I could be wrong though.

So this nerf to our elementals is supposed to address too much burst damage? Wasn't this the only thing keeping us middle of the pack in DPS? Maybe it's a PvP fix ...

I forget, does elemental blast work with Maelstrom weapon?

As an Enhancement Shaman, I'm excited about the feral spirits change though. Warms my heart to see this spell getting some love to make it more important for us again.

[Endus]

Personally, I don't understand the EoE nerf to EB.
It is a 12 second CD that really is a neat ability but isn't that much better than a LvB/maxed LB.
Yes we get a small buff, but going from 30% to 6% is a radical change.

I'm not sure where you got the idea that it's not much better than LB, for Enhancement. Putting it into the sim shows me that Enhancement gets almost double the damage per cast from EB than LB; 117.5k per execution for EB versus about 69k. And that's before you consider the stat buff portion.

[Volitar]

I don't like EB I hope that PE and UF end up being better than it.

[Nebria]

I don't like EB I hope that PE and UF end up being better than it.

If they get it right they are pretty equal and you can put what you like
For example I don't like UF.

One question about PE. So as they are pets there is no totem anymore where the FE is bound to right? So if I move several hundreds of yards the FE will follow me?

[flak]

If they get it right they are pretty equal and you can put what you like

If they make them all equal overall, PE and EM will always be the best choice, because they give you the most control.

[Aviators]

Glad they buffed EB