Do you think blizzard will react to the massive wish for a return to tbc style?

[Eorayn]

Personally, I don’t like the game as it is right now. I haven’t tried Mists of Pandaria, but I hope it is better.

[Deleted]

You don't make a game change to your wishes, you find a game that is according to your wishes.

[Deleted]

Yes, there is a 200 page thread. No - not everyone in there wishes TBC style raiding back. What people seem to forget ist what it says in my quote: No matter what you see in the forums, it is a fraction of the players in the game. They have data from the beginning of Classic and they know beyond a doubt where players are, what players do, where players go and how much time they spend doing so.

But do they have data showing how much fun players are having? Because surely that's what counts. You could have a game where only 1% of players can do the top raid but still everybody's having fun, and you could have a game where 100% of the players see everything but they're all bored and whining and quitting. Fun can't be quantified with straight-up data, and trying to use statistics to measure fun is a dangerous logical minefield.

[LazarusLong]

There is a huge difference between TBC and WotLK. And I have never heard anyone complain during TBC about how hard everything was.

As Raid Leader of guild that killed Kil'Jaden before nerfs I can't honestly believe in this statement.

[Dakia]

This is something that was already half attempted with the increase in the difficulty of heroics at the start of Cata. The amount of crying about the effort required resulted in nerfs.

I don't think that they'll do anything at this point.

[DeadmanWalking]

I agree 100% with this Kreeb, y'all are being idiots and not realizing the millions of people that quit cause the lil kids and people that like an easy game where you can get your butt handed to you by an 8 year old that mashes buttons. And as for Into and Gilian, thats due to the fact that since WOTLK most of the people that did play then quit from BC because of what I just said. You Don't have to work hard at all to be able to do anything in the game now. When LFR came on I got a 1 week back in the game and got 3 toons massively geared in the week I got back without a problem.

If this was the case everyone would of quit every MMO in existance.

[Chrno]

But do they have data showing how much fun players are having? Because surely that's what counts. You could have a game where only 1% of players can do the top raid but still everybody's having fun, and you could have a game where 100% of the players see everything but they're all bored and whining and quitting. Fun can't be quantified with straight-up data, and trying to use statistics to measure fun is a dangerous logical minefield.

Now this is quote worthy

Data is cool, but you can't have data on everything

[RoutanClan]

I see it as this. I am a casual player. I just joined the forums to post here actually.

I quit CATA back during tier 11 because it became way to hard for my basic level of skill play. I keyboard turn and click.

LFD works for me because I don't have time to find enough guild members or random people in trade who want to. LFD let's me continue to play and do what I want while I wait for a team to be formed. That's a lot better than sitting in SW doing nothing for 15 or more minutes only to get a group together, walk to the instance. Wait for someone else to get there to help summon. Finally get the group in the dungeon to wipe on the first boss. Have peope leave, have to fly back to sw and try to get missing party members to do it all over again.

If you don't like LFD and LFR don't use them. They are there to help casuals like me.

Yeah you get noobs in groups. I got a priest on one of my alts groups last night that needed on a tank ring because he didn't have a ring. He also kept casting that 60minute priest button every 5 seconds and then yell at the tanks for taking on more than 2 adds at once because he was running out of mana.

Blizzard has more customers like me than hardcore gamers. That's why they added things like pet battles and farming to the game.

Brag that you can do heroic content. Don't whine that all content isn't challenging enough to you. If blizzard made everything as hard as the hardcore gamers want they'd have less than 3million subscribers if that.

[Deleted]

Massive?

Ah yeah sometimes there is this vocal minority whining about it ..

No, blizzard is happy with the mayority of the happy customers.

yeah man Blizzard are real happy seeing 1.1 million people leave in just 1 quarter of a year

[Thage]

Have fun watching MMO's die. MMO(RPG)'s are not about fast loot without interacting with other players. They are more about getting to know other people and play together with them. LFD and LFR only makes it harder to actually have fun because playing games with friends is the most fun. I rather play tetris with friends than do LFR with a bunch of morons and trolls. Doesn't matter how pretty Deathwing looks.
You can still get to know others and play with them except now you have to invest only more and more into it.

You do realize that every MMO that came out trying to appeal to WoW's hardcore audience has flopped fantastically, right? Hardcores make up less than 8% of the player base and the gaming industry as a whole, MMOs included, shifted toward a more casual market about four or five years ago. All Blizzard's doing is the same they've always done 'cept for Cata--adapt with the market to offer the most accessible, casual-friendly MMO on the shelves.

As for your assertions, those are subjective. I find it much more fun to actually play the game than to sit in guild chat bugging guildies to do runs they're sick to death of just because there's a huge upgrade in there for my alt or sitting in Trade for two hours trying to put a group together, spending 10-20 minutes just to get there, and wait another 10-20 for someone else to leave the city to join me at the stone, only for the group to fall apart after the first boss when the healer ragequits, rinse and repeat. I find LFR is tons of fun, too: I can put on some Bach and kill an afternoon going at a fairly easy pace on my own time.

[RoutanClan]

Most people left because there has been no new content in months.

[Scummer]

Cataclysm was Blizzard's attempt to go back to TBC style difficulty. Then subscribers were lost because of the difficulty.

[Thage]

Most people left because there has been no new content in months.

And most of those were in the East, as in Taiwan, China, and South Korea, where the payment structure is different (they pay by the hour instead of by the month in order to maximize their play time, due to some Asian countries having strict laws about MMO gaming and time usage).

[DeadmanWalking]

Cataclysm was Blizzard's attempt to go back to TBC style difficulty. Then subscribers were lost because of the difficulty.

Shhhh, your using way too much logic for this forum thread. This isnt about logic and reason its about rose colored glasses and casual player bashing.

[Deleted]

But do they have data showing how much fun players are having? Because surely that's what counts. You could have a game where only 1% of players can do the top raid but still everybody's having fun, and you could have a game where 100% of the players see everything but they're all bored and whining and quitting. Fun can't be quantified with straight-up data, and trying to use statistics to measure fun is a dangerous logical minefield.

Mostly correct. And a nice read. However, they don't intend to measure fun. Blizzard can easily measure log-in patterns, ingame activity and subscriptions however. And they don't give an airborne sexual act if someone has 16$ worth of fun or 500$ worth of fun, as long as this someone pays 15$/month.
I would love to see them cave in another time to the mouthy kids hyperventilating in their forum. Do it and we finally know if there is still a market in them - or not.

[voidillusion]

Cataclysm was Blizzard's attempt to go back to TBC style difficulty. Then subscribers were lost because of the difficulty.

It was?

Where were the challenging Heroic dungeons?
Where were the attunements?
Where were the original and filled with lore raids?
Where were the high quality crafts?
Where were the magic resistance requirements for some bosses?
Where were the rep requirements to enter heroic dungeons?
Where was the economy drive due to the several consumables you could and should use?

The only thing i saw was an expansion full of rehashed content that apart from Sinestra and Rag HC had nothing noteworthy, tbh if it was an attempt it failed miserably. Or maybe you didnt even played during BC to be able to produce this statement.

[Scummer]

Mostly correct. And a nice read. However, they don't intend to measure fun. Blizzard can easily measure log-in patterns, ingame activity and subscriptions however. And they don't give an airborne sexual act if someone has 16$ worth of fun or 500$ worth of fun, as long as this someone pays 15$/month.
I would love to see them cave in another time to the mouthy kids hyperventilating in their forum. Do it and we finally know if there is still a market in them - or not.

If people are actively playing your game and subscribing, chances are they are enjoying it otherwise they would just unsub and not play it.
They do care about your fun because if you weren't having fun you wouldn't sub to the game and play it, and not subbing means less money for Blizzard. Games are played for fun, if you aren't having fun then you won't play it.

[Peacemoon]

I read many good and contructive post lately on both mmo-champion and official wow forums. There seems to a huge wish for blizzard to change the direction wow has gone trough with Wotlk and Cataclysm.

Personally i really hope blizzard are going to listen to the commnity for once and bring back wow to glory. I think many players would come back if player progression was brought back to live.

Do blizzard know what the majority of raiders want or don't the care at all?

Bring back effort = reward

I think what players "want" is not always what players would actually "enjoy".

Console games. You give a player the option to cheat and get to the last level and many will opt for that route - despite the fact that completing the game through that route will offer less enjoyment and satisfaction.

I see no difference between that and WoW. Of course players want to advance further, farther, faster - but that doesn't mean you just hand it to them on a plate; consumed like fast-food. No. It is up to Blizzard to design a fun gauntlet in order to achieve this - one that is not too long and hard (hopefully we have enough of that in real life), but not too short and easy either (who ever strives for that?!).

Surely its only logical.

[Conscious]

Yeah, because a sub based mmo that has many times more subs than any other and loses less % than all the competitors is in trouble :P Basic math knowledge proves that people who claim how WoW is dying are wrong.

The point is that the game is -losing- subscriptions and Blizzard has yet to find the solution to that problem, save an entirely new expansion it seems.

[Grocalis]

Where were the challenging Heroic dungeons?

Did we play the same expansion? Yes the heroics were probably still not as challenging as TBC, but they were brutal starting out compared to WOTLK. I had friends give up the game because of how brutal they were and as such they felt they stagnated in progression.