Page 2 of 11 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
... LastLast
  1. #21
    Middle of the pack? From my experiences, Ret's been pretty damn strong. I can't seem to find any parses, apparently I'm really bad at finding that stuff, but I've encountered tons of Ret pallies doing great damage, and I even pull some pretty strong numbers compared to many of my other classes.

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-08 at 04:06 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Sett View Post
    It's the only thing that seems to get their attention is a massive amount of HEY LOOK NUMBERS WHY IS IT LIKE THIS sort of things.
    Because they're the only claims that can be substantiated.

  2. #22
    Yep, this kinda reminds me when arms warriors got over nerfed (20% to 12%) during cata, i got a really bad feeling about this.

  3. #23
    The Patient Keyur's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    India
    Posts
    289
    its beta or live...ret golden era is over after WoLK. People get used to nerfs. On official forum I hardly see any ret dps discussion thread. Most people talk about ret PvP perspective. Perhaps very few people playing ret as dps

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Veyne View Post
    Middle of the pack? From my experiences, Ret's been pretty damn strong. I can't seem to find any parses, apparently I'm really bad at finding that stuff, but I've encountered tons of Ret pallies doing great damage, and I even pull some pretty strong numbers compared to many of my other classes.
    From my PVE Raiding experiences in the Beta, we were mid to upper pack before these changes, so this recent tuning is pretty perplexing, and makes our sustained dps (our biggest issue in Cata) even worse, while with the Holy Avenger changes make us even more bursty, resulting in "OMG pallyz are OP" posts

    Censure damage reduced by 15%.
    Hammer of Wrath damage reduced by 20%.
    Judgment damage and AP scaling reduced by 20%.
    Exorcism damage reduced by 15%.
    Seal of Truth additional damage reduced to 12%, down from 14%. Censure damage reduced by 15%
    Sword of Light now jncreases the damage you deal with two-handed melee weapons by 10%, down from 20%.

    Holy Avenger now has an additional effect: Abilities that generate Holy Power will deal 30% additional damage and healing.
    Templar's Verdict now does 280% was (260%) weapon damage plus 1,918 (was 1,633).

    I thought the design goal was to make us less bursty and have more sustained dps outwith our cooldowns
    Last edited by Firegalus; 2012-08-08 at 08:02 AM.

    Despair are recruiting see RecuitPost for details or visit http://www.eu-despair.com

  5. #25
    To the ground baby !
    I guess we will have to endure the T11 again :\

  6. #26
    Blademaster W1shm4ster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Feel with me
    Posts
    48
    Quote Originally Posted by jeanbono View Post
    To the ground baby !
    I guess we will have to endure the T11 again :\
    Hey they said they want to bring back some Vanilla feeling, here we go! Well i must say that Reckoning Bomb Pala was kinda funny^^

  7. #27
    I think it's a shame too. And even worse, because Ghostcrawler refers to it as "Paladin -- Ret roughly tuned."

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    While I'm not a paladin, I have been frequenting the beta, and I can say that the reason probably is that even though a class is "middle of the pack" as the DPS is *right now*, that doesn't mean that its where Blizzard intends the DPS to be. For instance, if the damage spread was 60-70K (with hunters and locks lying at 80K with boomkins close behind as exceptions), they may actually want it to be 50-60K instead. A middle of the pack class would be doing 65K dps, so that's 5K above what they want the MAX to be.
    The numbers are purely made up, mind you, but the point is, being middle of the pack in beta doesn't mean that you're not going to get nerfed if EVERYTHING is doing too much damage for their liking. The normal bosses were (mostly) stupidly easy, with a 10 man boss such as Lei Shi having "only" 70M HP.
    What is this "middle of the pack" crap? Ret is a damage spec that does not bring more buffs than others and there even are pures that bring more stuff to the raid than ret. So what is that "middle of the pack"? It sounds absolutely irrational to have ret deal intentionally less dmg.

    It's a DD spec and should be on par with every other dd. Or we get something that justifies this nonsense hybrid taxation.

    Why should ret be supposed to deal less dmg than the rest? Why? Is it because it's ret and ret is just not allowed to be on the same lvl dmg wise as the rest? That is just retarded.

  9. #29
    Don't be sad at all, we Rogues don't see any changes at all

  10. #30
    Fluffy Kitten Taurenburger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Pretending not to be here
    Posts
    3,052
    I was angry too at first, then I realised every class´ damage was nerfed. I still think it´s lame that retribution gets nerfed literally every build.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartuck View Post
    Don't be sad at all, we Rogues don't see any changes at all
    No changes > Nerfs on (almost) everything
    Lord protector of the Veal

    Pokemon Y
    Friendcode: 0791-2124-3938 (IGN: Michiel)
    Friendsafari: Magneton, Forretress, Bronzong

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by taurenburger View Post
    I was angry too at first, then I realised every class´ damage was nerfed. I still think it´s lame that retribution gets nerfed literally every build.


    No changes > Nerfs on (almost) everything
    As far as I know hunters were through the roof. They got equally strong nerfes like ret. The nerfes to ret seem to be very intense although ret was in most cases under-performing. That's what I don't get. We got nerfes in the range of 12-20% and in addition to that a 10% dmg nerf to sword of light, meaning to all our melee/weapon dmg abilities. And in turn we got more burst..

    It just does not make sense considering the history of ret and why this spec sucked or why it was op.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    While I'm not a paladin, I have been frequenting the beta, and I can say that the reason probably is that even though a class is "middle of the pack" as the DPS is *right now*, that doesn't mean that its where Blizzard intends the DPS to be. For instance, if the damage spread was 60-70K (with hunters and locks lying at 80K with boomkins close behind as exceptions), they may actually want it to be 50-60K instead. A middle of the pack class would be doing 65K dps, so that's 5K above what they want the MAX to be.
    The numbers are purely made up, mind you, but the point is, being middle of the pack in beta doesn't mean that you're not going to get nerfed if EVERYTHING is doing too much damage for their liking. The normal bosses were (mostly) stupidly easy, with a 10 man boss such as Lei Shi having "only" 70M HP.
    You clearly didnt test heroic modes or 25man.

    OT: Was doing fine on anything that didnt require heavy targetswitching in the previous build on 25man. Not sure if i like the Holy Avenger change at all tho. :<
    "Remembrance of things past is not necessarily the remembrance of things as they were."
    Juseeh
    T11 WR: 115, T12 WR: 45, T14 WR:44, T15 WR:37, T16: WR:28

  13. #33
    Data-mining may not get everything.. will have to test it out - but if it's accurate, we lost a lot of our consistent damage and became burst-bots again. They also did the Holy Avenger/Divine Purpose changes purely because Sanctified Wrath was an easy pick with our 4-set bonus.

  14. #34
    Guys, calm down. Classes aren't just balanced against each other, they're balanced against content. A few other specs are also going to eat serious nerfs this build (hello, Hunters!), don't be surprised if a bunch of other specs also get their turn in the grinder in the next build or the one after that. This isn't the sky falling, it's the fabled numbers pass finally starting to happen now that mechanics have been mostly solidified.
    Faithful worshiper of Huehuetzilopochtli.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Holtzmann View Post
    Guys, calm down. Classes aren't just balanced against each other, they're balanced against content. A few other specs are also going to eat serious nerfs this build (hello, Hunters!), don't be surprised if a bunch of other specs also get their turn in the grinder in the next build or the one after that. This isn't the sky falling, it's the fabled numbers pass finally starting to happen now that mechanics have been mostly solidified.
    We weren't anywhere near BM hunters, I can tell you that.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    We weren't anywhere near BM hunters, I can tell you that.
    You mean the guys who got every rotational ability they use severely nerfed? Arcane Shot, Kill Command, Serpent Sting, pet damage and Cobra Shot were all taken down a number of pegs according to the datamining.

    Again, this is not the sky falling or the end of the world. Numbers are being tweaked, and we should expect even more changes to Retribution and other specs' DPS if there are loose ends that need to be tied up. Blizzard rarely does things in a single pass, so there will be more adjusments.

    EDIT: and since we're here...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    We have made several adjustments based on player feedback, raid testing, and fixing some bugs. Some of the changes were made to keep secondary stats scaling appropriately and some were when specs were doing too much damage. Here's a quick cheat sheet for where we are. Even "tuned" does not mean set in stone and ready for ship.

    Priest -- Shadow roughly tuned.
    Warlock -- roughly tuned except for Sacrifice.
    Mage -- roughly tuned except Arcane and Invocation.
    Druid -- Feral and Balance tuned except for Dream of Cenarius.
    Paladin -- Ret roughly tuned.
    Rogue -- tuned (but we'll look at Assassination numbers posted above).
    Shaman -- tuned.
    Hunter -- tuned.

    We are working on monk, warrior and DK next.
    Last edited by Holtzmann; 2012-08-08 at 10:50 AM.
    Faithful worshiper of Huehuetzilopochtli.

  17. #37
    Warchief Velshin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    One with the Light
    Posts
    2,076
    Quote Originally Posted by Holtzmann View Post
    Guys, calm down. Classes aren't just balanced against each other, they're balanced against content. A few other specs are also going to eat serious nerfs this build (hello, Hunters!), don't be surprised if a bunch of other specs also get their turn in the grinder in the next build or the one after that. This isn't the sky falling, it's the fabled numbers pass finally starting to happen now that mechanics have been mostly solidified.

    It's not about sky falling or anything like that yes hunters nerf are justified because they were doing something roughly 8k more dps more than any other class. Also I'm ok with retri nerf or tweaking because as stated most of the classes if not all are getting dmg nerfs and tweak. However, my only problem is buffing our most hateful RNG the divine purpose and making Holy Avenger no brainer which against Blizzard mentality about the new talents system that's the only problems I have with these changes the rest of the stuff I'm totally ok with.

  18. #38
    No such thing as being nerfed on Beta, since the numbers on there were never intended to be final.

  19. #39
    Moderator Malthanis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Not nearly out of the way enough
    Posts
    4,678
    Quote Originally Posted by Velshin View Post
    What I'm really suprised about is the Divine purpose buff..I mean buffing something that most of Ret paladins if not all of them hate it...

    I mean most of ret players already got sick of RNG procs in our dmg and rotation such as divine purpose.
    Except Divine Purpose is for paladins in general, and optional at that. You don't have to take it if you don't want it. The only reason that RNG was so hated was because it was unavoidable.

  20. #40
    The Patient
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    213
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    Except Divine Purpose is for paladins in general, and optional at that. You don't have to take it if you don't want it. The only reason that RNG was so hated was because it was unavoidable.
    What malthanis said,

    Some people have to calm down a bit and wait for time to pass. You can all assume what you want, yet we have another (possible month and a half) to go until the ultimate release. And if it turns out that you're class is utterly useless; changes will be made
    played a ret myself over Wrath and Early Cata and tbh, rets right now are fine. If played right (yes it's different as before) you can pull some crazy out of control numbers, same as every other class. It's a new expansion, don't be frightened, and seriously, don't go crazy over somethings thats most likely temporary. Look at how they changed your class in the previous builds. Time for some to see the big picture. It's not because this build gives you a 15% decrease that the fictional 40% buff you had 5 builds ago is nullified. No, you're getting a 40% buff on an ability, Which would be at 140% (lets assume this) Take the build now, oh 15% off, well still a 25% increase over what it was.

    Hold your horses until the last and final patchnotes are there, if you don't like it, go do some mathematics and see how well rets are actually doing
    besides, parses don't tell you nothing. Have a look at boomkins, parses say you're screwed, yet they have proven to be most powerful when played correctly over the last 3 patches.

    Be optimistic, see the big picture, relax

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •