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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Zole_Zole_Zole View Post
    That's a huge assumption there on your part. I really enjoy this ability, it adds flavour to my otherwise dull rotation. I am sad that i have to choose it as a talent instead of having it as baseline.
    Yeah, I hope they make it viable on fights where we don't have to burst anything down, like along the lines of a Spine tendons; I enjoy the random procs too.

    In general, though, I really hope they don't make any more changes to shift us into more burst damage; they have been trying to balance Ret PvP around burst for years and years, and it's really just not working very well. I wish they would just try making Ret a heavy sustained damage spec, which exhausts the opponent's healers, over the course of a few minutes, much like a warlock does with constant multi-dotting. We just don't have the tactical tools to be a real burst spec, and at best we end up relying on a Rogue or something similar to actually set up a burst opportunity.
    Last edited by Tangra; 2012-08-08 at 09:04 PM.

  2. #62
    Pandaren Monk Velshin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zole_Zole_Zole View Post
    That's a huge assumption there on your part. I really enjoy this ability, it adds flavour to my otherwise dull rotation. I am sad that i have to choose it as a talent instead of having it as baseline.
    Not saying all Ret paladins hate it but I'm sure a lot of Ret players love to control their dmg and dps and sick of the unstable burst RNG. Divine purpose is good as an optional choice but not as a baseline in my personal opinion which is why in MoP talents system is way much better as in Cata talents where we are forced to take it and can't avoid it, but I was surprised by Blizzard when they buff something that some people hate it as a mechanism of the spec but yeah I guess some people enjoy RNG but me personally got sick of it. :P

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Velshin View Post
    I was surprised by Blizzard when they buff something that some people hate it as a mechanism of the spec
    Some people always hate something.

    You should be taken aback by the stupidity the large part of the official forum posters possess, rather than Blizzard's attempt to make something more appealing via a buff.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Velshin View Post
    Not saying all Ret paladins hate it but I'm sure a lot of Ret players love to control their dmg and dps and sick of the unstable burst RNG. Divine purpose is good as an optional choice but not as a baseline in my personal opinion which is why in MoP talents system is way much better as in Cata talents where we are forced to take it and can't avoid it, but I was surprised by Blizzard when they buff something that some people hate it as a mechanism of the spec but yeah I guess some people enjoy RNG but me personally got sick of it. :P
    They buffed it because it sucks. Even at 25% it's not as good as the one on live is.

  5. #65
    Well at least we have another healing buff coming, which is to WoG so our ranged finisher via Harsh Words will be buffed as well, here is the exact quote from Ghostcrawler:

    "An update for paladins: we're going to buff Word of Glory and slightly nerf Light of Dawn. We will likely nerf Bastion of Glory enough to offset this change, but need additional testing first. For now, we are not changing Ret's WoG bonus so it will be buffed for them as well."

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Tangra View Post
    Well at least we have another healing buff coming, which is to WoG so our ranged finisher via Harsh Words will be buffed as well, here is the exact quote from Ghostcrawler:

    "An update for paladins: we're going to buff Word of Glory and slightly nerf Light of Dawn. We will likely nerf Bastion of Glory enough to offset this change, but need additional testing first. For now, we are not changing Ret's WoG bonus so it will be buffed for them as well."
    Then what is gonna happen to eternal flame then? is it gonna stay pathetic?

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Beefkow View Post
    Then what is gonna happen to eternal flame then? is it gonna stay pathetic?
    In general, WoG and EF are meant to be closely linked spells, since they replace one another, so I think there is some chance of seeing the initial heal of EF to be buffed at least.

  8. #68
    Beta is beta is beta....

    Just remember, we're ret paladins :P

  9. #69
    If you want to see the future of Ret, merely look at the past. Nothing has ever really changed. Poor substained, high burst. Blizzard never learns and sticks to this design religiously, its been like this since Vanilla (SoC procs). The difference is that Ret now has a bit more control over when he unloads his burst.
    And burst gets you nerfed, because once in a blue moon everything procs and crits just when you twin your obscenely powerfull cds together, and blow a popular class up in mere seconds.

    I could copy paste this post into TBC, WotLK and Cata. Really, nothing ever changed.

  10. #70
    Mechagnome Boogieknight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Regen View Post
    Beta is beta is beta....

    Just remember, we're ret paladins :P
    That means we're ready for launch, right?
    Anyone else think Jaime Lannister only has the Kingslayer title because he was just too lazy to kill the king on heroic mode?

  11. #71
    It's good thing I have 1.5 months to farm leather items for my monk. I've played ret pala since BC and it looks my patience has come to an end.

  12. #72
    Moderator Malthanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefkow View Post
    Then what is gonna happen to eternal flame then? is it gonna stay pathetic?
    EF was bugged: it was acting as though it consumed twice the HoPow actually spent on it. So all those logs we were seeing with EF doing 30% or more of a Holy paladin's healing were actually showing 6 HoPow EFs being tossed out across the raid.


    I'm also putting this here (again), to stress the fact that Ret was not the only spec to get hit with this downward tuning (it was actually a Ret paladin that prompted this response in the first place).

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    No, just you Chaz.

    We have made several adjustments based on player feedback, raid testing, and fixing some bugs. Some of the changes were made to keep secondary stats scaling appropriately and some were when specs were doing too much damage. Here's a quick cheat sheet for where we are. Even "tuned" does not mean set in stone and ready for ship.

    Priest -- Shadow roughly tuned.
    Warlock -- roughly tuned except for Sacrifice.
    Mage -- roughly tuned except Arcane and Invocation.
    Druid -- Feral and Balance tuned except for Dream of Cenarius.
    Paladin -- Ret roughly tuned.
    Rogue -- tuned (but we'll look at Assassination numbers posted above).
    Shaman -- tuned.
    Hunter -- tuned.

    We are working on monk, warrior and DK next.
    As an aside, the "screw it, I'm rerolling" comments (and those like them) aren't terribly constructive, either in this forum or for the game itself. People leaving the class means they have less overall data to look at, so it will be more difficult for them to make changes.
    Last edited by Malthanis; 2012-08-09 at 01:16 PM.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Megraam View Post
    It's good thing I have 1.5 months to farm leather items for my monk. I've played ret pala since BC and it looks my patience has come to an end.
    No! Don't go!

  14. #74
    Elemental Lord MerinPally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Regen View Post
    No! Don't go!
    Let him go, young one. All those who are true of heart shall eventually return. However, an imposter amongst us will not return. Like sandpeople, they will walk in single file to disguise their numbers.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Boogieknight View Post
    That means we're ready for launch, right?

    ret paladins. in beta since, well,.....beta.
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    Let him go, young one. All those who are true of heart shall eventually return. However, an imposter amongst us will not return. Like sandpeople, they will walk in single file to disguise their numbers.
    I'm sorry, Merinicus, holy warrior of the light...Forgive my mishap, please.


    Also yes @ Ret in beta forever

  17. #77
    I'm not sure where people are getting that Ret is middle of the pack. In my 25 man, me and our other Ret were 1 and 2 on dps on just about every fight (top 100 US 25 man, so the people we're competing with aren't exactly bad).

    The problem that Blizzard is encountering is one that's been around for a while: damage needs to be balanced around the average player AND the top player. With a class like Ret paladins on the beta, what has been happening is that very good Rets are pulling significantly ahead of the pack in dps, while average/decent Rets are in the middle of the pack where they should be. So the question they have to answer is "How do we nerf the top end without affecting the average dps?" To accomplish this they need to find a way to reduce the damage spread and adjust the average accordingly by redistributing where our damage is coming from.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by paoani View Post
    I'm not sure where people are getting that Ret is middle of the pack. In my 25 man, me and our other Ret were 1 and 2 on dps on just about every fight (top 100 US 25 man, so the people we're competing with aren't exactly bad).

    The problem that Blizzard is encountering is one that's been around for a while: damage needs to be balanced around the average player AND the top player. With a class like Ret paladins on the beta, what has been happening is that very good Rets are pulling significantly ahead of the pack in dps, while average/decent Rets are in the middle of the pack where they should be. So the question they have to answer is "How do we nerf the top end without affecting the average dps?" To accomplish this they need to find a way to reduce the damage spread and adjust the average accordingly by redistributing where our damage is coming from.
    Sounds like your hunters, warlocks and boomkins werent doing their jobs properly then.
    "Remembrance of things past is not necessarily the remembrance of things as they were."
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  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by paoani View Post
    I'm not sure where people are getting that Ret is middle of the pack. In my 25 man, me and our other Ret were 1 and 2 on dps on just about every fight (top 100 US 25 man, so the people we're competing with aren't exactly bad).

    The problem that Blizzard is encountering is one that's been around for a while: damage needs to be balanced around the average player AND the top player. With a class like Ret paladins on the beta, what has been happening is that very good Rets are pulling significantly ahead of the pack in dps, while average/decent Rets are in the middle of the pack where they should be. So the question they have to answer is "How do we nerf the top end without affecting the average dps?" To accomplish this they need to find a way to reduce the damage spread and adjust the average accordingly by redistributing where our damage is coming from.
    You are raiding without rogues,warriors,mages,hunters and druids or what?
    If that's not the case,then sure,the word bad cant even describe them.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post

    As an aside, the "screw it, I'm rerolling" comments (and those like them) aren't terribly constructive, either in this forum or for the game itself. People leaving the class means they have less overall data to look at, so it will be more difficult for them to make changes.
    partially wrong. if they see a massive drop in a certain class/spec popularity in an expansion, it might make them think why.

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